Multiburial skills? 18+ caught, 6 dead, 5 injured in 7 accidents in 7 days

[summit]

5 avalanches with multiple people caught. How are your multiburial skills? How is your triage knowledge?


From 2/25-3/3 18+ caught, 6 dead, 5 injured in 7 accidents in 7 days

3/3 Teanaway WA Avalanche 2 killed 1 seriously injured

Also on 3/3 in CA:
Mammoth Mountain CA shut down due to inbounds avalanches yesterday 2+ caught
Squaw Valley CA saw customers caught buried and injured in inbounds avalanches yesterday. 5+ caught 2 injured

2/28 Hells Canyon UT 1 caught https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanches/37667

2/25 Mirror Lake WA, 5 caught 1 killed 2 injured

2/25 Snoqualmie WA Avalanche kills 2 teens

2/25 Ketchikan, AK 1 snowboarder killed

[rod9301]

Not good at all.
If I ski with more than one person, not often, we always ski one at a time.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

[summit]

PRACTICE

Learn your beacon's multiburial technique (flagging, signal suppression, etc) if it has one.

PRACTICE

Learn Micro-Strip and/or 3-Circle... these are absolutely necessary backup tools.

PRACTICE

Take an avalanche rescue course.

PRACTICE

Take a WFR course or a WFA+CPR course.

PRACTICE

Learn multiburial triage

PRACTICE

[sfotex]

Bruce Edgerly of BCA says your better off practicing the basic stuff.... discuss..
https://s3.amazonaws.com/Backcountry...itingMB_US.pdf

The point being that off the above incidents how many people were doing multi beacon searches?

[Hacksaw]

Bruce Edgerly of BCA says your better off practicing the basic stuff.... discuss..
https://s3.amazonaws.com/Backcountry...itingMB_US.pdf

The point being that off the above incidents how many people were doing multi beacon searches?

I always do multi-burial practices.... If your good at them, singles are easy.

BTW, this April will be the 5th anniversary of the Sheep Creek accident, where 6 were buried, 5 survived.

[SKIP IN7RO]

BTW, this April will be the 5th anniversary of the Sheep Creek accident, where 6 were buried, 5 passed.

fify

[Name Redacted]

Not good at all.
If I ski with more than one person, not often, we always ski one at a time.

What if you were out skiing by yourself, or with a friend and you happened upon an avalanche? Turn your beacon to search and it starts identifying multiple signals. Would you know how to locate each one? This is what happened at Sheep Creek and one person was rescued as a result.

Just because you are being safe, and traveling solo, or with a small group, doesn't mean you might not be needed to assist others. That's just the reality of it. Not everyone travels in small groups, or in safe terrain. Does that mean you won't help them? I hope not.

Also, don't assume it can't happen to you, you'd be surprised how easily anyone can fall into heuristic traps.

[summit]

Bruce Edgerly of BCA says your better off practicing the basic stuff.... discuss..
https://s3.amazonaws.com/Backcountry...itingMB_US.pdf

The point being that off the above incidents how many people were doing multi beacon searches?

First, remember that dealing with multiple casualties is a much broader topic than dealing with multiple complete beacon burials (which was Bruce's narrow focus).

Bruce’s analysis 10 years ago of data from 10-20 years ago that showed there rarely multi-beacon searches unless you are in a guided group in Europe… was that questionable at the time he was heading a company facing increasingly competitive sales from competitor’s new digital beacons with improved multiburial capability? Well it was convenient…

Well that old study certainly is not applicable today as the last week shows! (I didn’t include the quadruple fatality from France in the same time period nor did I examine any Canadian or Euro reports).

Even ten years ago I looked at the European data and disagreed strongly with Bruce's characterization. The question was should we even teach multiburials in Level 1? Well, many classes stopped… or at least place low emphasis on it. I thought back in 2008: while multi-beacon searches might be indeed rare enough to deemphasize multi-burial search techniques in a Level 1 class, I certainly thought that avalanches with multiple people caught were no rarity and consideration should be given to avalanche triage considerations even for recreational avalanche classes. Today we clearly face a world where multiburial search and triage are an absolutely necessary skill among rescuers. I am doing my best to combine avalanche rescue courses with level 1 courses which allows a more thorough rescue skillset including the management of multiple avalanche casualties and multiburial skills.

But you can’t make people take WFR or CPR and you can’t make people practice. I hope they do.

[GeezerSteve]

PNW backcountry travelers in the past 3-4 weeks have been dealing with relatively rare snowpack issues for these parts: PWL in many places that has not been crushed or otherwise abated by subsequent snowfall nor rain events.

[auvgeek]

First, remember that dealing with multiple casualties is a much broader topic than dealing with multiple complete beacon burials (which was Bruce's narrow focus).

Bruce’s analysis 10 years ago of data from 10-20 years ago that showed there rarely multi-beacon searches unless you are in a guided group in Europe… was that questionable at the time he was heading a company facing increasingly competitive sales from competitor’s new digital beacons with improved multiburial capability? Well it was convenient…

Well that old study certainly is not applicable today as the last week shows! (I didn’t include the quadruple fatality from France in the same time period nor did I examine any Canadian or Euro reports).

Even ten years ago I looked at the European data and disagreed strongly with Bruce's characterization. The question was should we even teach multiburials in Level 1? Well, many classes stopped… or at least place low emphasis on it. I thought back in 2008: while multi-beacon searches might be indeed rare enough to deemphasize multi-burial search techniques in a Level 1 class, I certainly thought that avalanches with multiple people caught were no rarity and consideration should be given to avalanche triage considerations even for recreational avalanche classes. Today we clearly face a world where multiburial search and triage are an absolutely necessary skill among rescuers. I am doing my best to combine avalanche rescue courses with level 1 courses which allows a more thorough rescue skillset including the management of multiple avalanche casualties and multiburial skills.

But you can’t make people take WFR or CPR and you can’t make people practice. I hope they do.

Yeah, I don't have statistics, but I would put money on the number of multi-burials in North America increasing significantly in the past ten years. Just simple common sense and anecdotal experience indicates the number of people skiing in groups in the backcountry, especially the resort-accessed backcountry (aka "sidecountry"), is drastically increasingly, especially as resorts are getting tracked out faster and faster.

[skifishbum]

for over a dozen seasons id get done skiing punch in go out to the ride establish shop safety protocols and hit the beacon park and run a couple multiples
me and the peips beat the bca rep and won the fastest beacon in the wasatch on a multiple drill comp
won a stash pack and a 10 dayer @ the bird
only ski comp i ever entered
thing about them medical certs
them fuckers alway make ya prove competence
where as avvy the just want the $$ i guess

[PNWbrit]

http://www.king5.com/article/news/av.../281-525984454

Also on 3/3

Avalanche kills skier in Okanogan County

Officials said four skiers were caught in the avalanche. The other three skiers located the male victim with his beacon but were unable to bring him down the mountain.

PRACTICE

Learn your beacon's multiburial technique (flagging, signal suppression, etc) if it has one.

PRACTICE

Learn Micro-Strip and/or 3-Circle... these are absolutely necessary backup tools.

PRACTICE

Take an avalanche rescue course.

PRACTICE

Take a WFR course or a WFA+CPR course.

PRACTICE

Learn multiburial triage

PRACTICE

How about... don't bury multiple people.

[dunfree]

Yeah, I don't have statistics, but I would put money on the number of multi-burials in North America increasing significantly in the past ten years. Just simple common sense and anecdotal experience indicates the number of people skiing in groups in the backcountry, especially the resort-accessed backcountry (aka "sidecountry"), is drastically increasingly, especially as resorts are getting tracked out faster and faster.

looking at the data here https://avalanche.org/avalanche-accidents/ there doesn't seem a meaningful change in multi-burial accidents or multiple fatality accidents. The question comes with how many non-fatal accidents that go unreported there are. I've no idea on that and haven't seen anyone try to come up with a meaningful sense of that number.

[Name Redacted]

How about... don't bury multiple people.

How about don't bury anyone? Easier said than done

[rod9301]

How about don't bury anyone? Easier said than done

No, it's pretty easy, ski one at the time.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

[Name Redacted]

No, it's pretty easy, ski one at the time.

See post #7, and:

In a perfect world this would be the case, but there will always be multiple-burials because humans will always make mistakes. It has happened to seasoned pros and novices alike. If you intend to enter complex terrain, it is very difficult to be 100% sure that one person at a time is at risk.

[PNWbrit]

See post #7, and:

In a perfect world this would be the case, but there will always be multiple-burials because humans will always make mistakes. It has happened to seasoned pros and novices alike. If you intend to enter complex terrain, it is very difficult to be 100% sure that one person at a time is at risk.

Not enough emphasis is given on it (and safe travel methods generally in most Avalanche education) and we all slack on being strict enough about practicing it.

[GeezerSteve]

we all slack on being strict enough about practicing it.

guilty as charged

[Name Redacted]

A lot of people's "Safe Zones" aren't very safe at all.

[PNWbrit]

A lot of people's "Safe Zones" aren't very safe at all.

Exactly.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

A lot of people's "Safe Zones" aren't very safe at all.

That's because people have been trained to be stupid and unaware. Folks jump through the hoops when it comes to avalanche education and it seems like most of them don't even understand what's going on.

[summit]

looking at the data here https://avalanche.org/avalanche-accidents/ there doesn't seem a meaningful change in multi-burial accidents or multiple fatality accidents. The question comes with how many non-fatal accidents that go unreported there are. I've no idea on that and haven't seen anyone try to come up with a meaningful sense of that number.

With PNW's linked avalanche, that makes 42% of fatal avalanche incidents this US season involve more than one person caught! (vs 33% for the previous season)

That is quite an astounding statistic... my position for over a decade is that avalanche triage is important. It merely requires multiple victims, not multiple complete transceiver burials.

Clearly many issues play here... obviously the lack of safe travel protocols, situational awareness, and the "safer zone" problem are apparent. Obviously the question is begged whether the multiple involvement directly contributes to the lethality of the incident (and we know the probable answer).

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Everyone's getting after it! What ever happened to terrain appropriate for the conditions? Safe travel protocol?

[Name Redacted]

That's because people have been trained to be stupid and unaware. Folks jump through the hoops when it comes to avalanche education and it seems like most of them don't even understand what's going on.

Kind of a rough generalization. Definitely a few of those folks had zero avy education, and two of the accidents were inbounds, which would lead one to think they had no education either. Not all of them were even skiers.

In many cases, ignorance, rather than complacency, or blatant stupidity is the culprit. You can't give everyone an avy class, just like you can't make everyone use the knowledge gained in a class.

[dunfree]

With PNW's linked avalanche, that makes 42% of fatal avalanche incidents this US season involve more than one person caught! (vs 33% for the previous season)

If you go back to 99-00 it was over 50% of incidents. The next season <40%. Fatal accidents are probably a poor lens to gaze at avalanches through.