Please get a flu vaccine

[summit]

Agree to an extent. Some people labelled as being 'on the spectrum' are just weird, a variant of 'normal' if you will. No need for a 'diagnosis'.

No disagreement, but the "statistics" that whackjobs like DBS blather about probably count them

[Meadow Skipper]

...completely idiotic. Completely.

You're a total fucking moron ... Just a fucking moron.

...you complete idiot....you have to be either incredibly stupid or uneducated (or both)...

...Absurd. So stupid it's hard to imagine how such an idea got into your head.

...you posted complete garbage.

Edited for the important phrases.

[old goat]

Yeah, that study actually doesn't show what you probably hope it does, due to it being retrospective. The kids in the study may have already been five times as likely to be hospitalized (for example), so if the resulting rate was only three times as high then the vaccine protected them.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/doe...pitalizations/

“While these findings do raise questions about the efficacy of the vaccine, they do not in fact implicate it as a cause of hospitalizations. More studies are needed to assess not only the immunogenicity, but also the efficacy of different influenza vaccines in asthmatic subjects.”

That may seem like a curious conclusion given the results of this study, but it is accurate. The key to understanding the implications of this study is that it is retrospective. That means it looks at children who have the flu and then looks back to see who was vaccinated and who wasn’t. This in turn means that children were not randomized to either be vaccinated or not, and this opens the door to any number of variables that cannot be controlled for in the study.

I've seen you trying to fight this fight for years, and it's always been completely idiotic.

The obvious weakness of the study is that kids who have asthma and other respiratory diseases are more likely to be vaccinated, so if you take a bunch of kids with flu the ones who had asthma and other medical problems would be expected to be hospitalized more often than the healthy ones and also more likely to be vaccinated. Your link explains this.

The other point to be made is that all the kids in the study had flu, so the study says nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccine--we know it doesn't always work. The study does raise the concern that contrary to other studies the vaccine may not reduce the seriousness of the disease in those who get the flu despite the vaccine. That still needs to be investigated further. In any case, reducing the severity of the illness is a secondary reason for vaccination.

(Just what you said, with different words.)

[TheSilverSurfer]

Too easy and predictable.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Too easy and predictable.

It's always easy to make an argument with facts versus emotion.

[Dexter Rutecki]

The obvious weakness of the study is that kids who have asthma and other respiratory diseases are more likely to be vaccinated, so if you take a bunch of kids with flu the ones who had asthma and other medical problems would be expected to be hospitalized more often than the healthy ones and also more likely to be vaccinated. Your link explains this.

Yes, when I saw the original link posted and read the abstract that was my immediate thought--they were looking only at a population obviously predisposed to be hospitalized at higher than normal rates. What's frustrating about seeing someone like DBS glom onto that sort of a study is that literally 30 seconds on google got me to the explanation that confirmed the likely source of the surprising study results--which, once you take into account the population, is actually not surprising. And as someone else posted, plenty of other studies showing that the apparent 'results' of the study DBS posted are not valid for the population as a whole.

[TheSilverSurfer]

https://healthfreedomidaho.org/flu-s...-injury-report

[summit]

PLEASE STOP QUOTING DBS

[old goat]

What's idiotic is trusting that big pharma and the government will always do what's right.

As I posted earlier the CDC acknowledge that the only reason flu shot recommended for all is because it was easier than only recommending for at risk groups.

We don't know what's causing the high rates of cancer and autism.

I see no reason not to try and live as naturally as possible in order to avoid possible causes.

We know how you feel about big pharma. No need to repeat it every few days. Saying the same thing over and over isn't more convincing than saying it once, just more annoying (which I realize is your true aim).

What's your source for the CDC's "admission"?
And because we don't know what causes cancer and autism it must be vaccines? Sheesh.
Go wandering around a 19th century cemetery and look at the ages on the headstones and tell me how living naturally worked out. Naturally for human beings is living in small isolated bands--infectious diseases are much less common when there isn't a large, dense population to sustain them. But for most of the world that ship sailed about 5000 years ago, maybe more.
We really need to emphasize STEM education in this country.

[Dexter Rutecki]

https://healthfreedomidaho.org/flu-s...-injury-report

Holy shit.

I read down to this part, which clearly was written by someone who was dropped on their head as an infant:

The flu vaccine is clearly the most dangerous vaccine in the U.S., and yet it is sold in stores and can be routinely obtained as easily as over-the-counter medicines with no consultation with a physician.

I mean, seriously, if you find this sort of shit meaningful you need to take some HS science courses, and maybe something in logical reasoning/critical reading.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[TheSilverSurfer]

Holy shit.

I read down to this part, which clearly was written by someone who was dropped on their head as an infant:

The flu vaccine is clearly the most dangerous vaccine in the U.S., and yet it is sold in stores and can be routinely obtained as easily as over-the-counter medicines with no consultation with a physician.

I mean, seriously, if you find this sort of shit meaningful you need to take some HS science courses, and maybe something in logical reasoning/critical reading.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Care to comment on the report from the DOJ that the author links, or are you just going to attach the author?

[TheSilverSurfer]

We know how you feel about big pharma. No need to repeat it every few days. Saying the same thing over and over isn't more convincing than saying it once, just more annoying (which I realize is your true aim).

What's your source for the CDC's "admission"?
And because we don't know what causes cancer and autism it must be vaccines? Sheesh.
Go wandering around a 19th century cemetery and look at the ages on the headstones and tell me how living naturally worked out. Naturally for human beings is living in small isolated bands--infectious diseases are much less common when there isn't a large, dense population to sustain them. But for most of the world that ship sailed about 5000 years ago, maybe more.
We really need to emphasize STEM education in this country.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/17/health...icy/index.html

When you do the back-of-the-envelope calculations (of all the separate groups recommended for vaccination), you are actually already making a recommendation that 75% of the population get it," Schaffner said. "And when it became apparent the issue of shortages was largely put on the back burner, then in 2010, we said, 'Let's simplify this and recommended this vaccine for anyone over 6 months old

I want suggesting vaccines cause cancer and autism. Only that we don't know what is, so I try and avoid anything not natural.

We remodeled our house to be toxin free, we eat mostly organic, we don't have televisions or microwaves in the house, we don't carry our phones in our pockets and don't hold them to our ears, etc...

[Tri-Ungulate]

Don't forget to wear your hats.

[Mazderati]

Pool party at the DBS house.

[TheSilverSurfer]

LOL, that's funny, but no.

[neufox47]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/17/health...icy/index.html



I want suggesting vaccines cause cancer and autism. Only that we don't know what is, so I try and avoid anything not natural.

We remodeled our house to be toxin free, we eat mostly organic, we don't have televisions or microwaves in the house, we don't carry our phones in our pockets and don't hold them to our ears, etc...

What is a toxin?

[TheSilverSurfer]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...free-home/amp/

All paints and finished used in our home are extremely low or zero voc. Cabinetry is all formaldehyde free. All cleaning products are non toxic. All mattresses are organic latex. Bedding is organic cotton. No fire retardants. Flooring is green guard certified. Subfloor is formaldehyde free soy glue based plywood.

You all can call me as much of a kook as you want, but having an allergen free home is pretty amazing.

[Dexter Rutecki]

I don't walk under ladders, turn around three times whenever I see my reflection, and I always wear purple hats on Thursdays. Big pharma and the gub'mint aren't going to get me under their thumbs!

[bigdude2468]

I don't walk under ladders, turn around three times whenever I see my reflection, and I always wear purple hats on Thursdays. Big pharma and the gub'mint aren't going to get me under their thumbs!

+1

[Fritz]

You guys all really trust the government? Funny shit. I’m not saying that I think the vaccines cause cancer, autism, etc., but western medicine in general and the western diet probably does. Look to the east.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Nah, what's funny shit is the idea that 'western medicine' causes cancer/autism. Where did you get such an idea?

You know what you call 'alternative' medicine that works? Medicine. Look to the east, etc., is pure bullshit for people who prefer religion/superstition over science. When it works there is proof, which is what 'western' medicine is based on (and it's pretty culturally insulting to imply that people who aren't western are too stupid to understand how science works--smart people around the world all use the same treatments because fact-based science is not dependent on culture or superstition).

[Fritz]

Ok that's cool man. Believe what you want. I'm not here to try to convince people.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Nah, I don't believe what I want--I believe in evidence based medicine. That's the only thing anyone should believe in--not a matter of convincing anyone or deciding on your own what is correct. If there isn't evidence I don't believe it, which is the 'western' model (obviously I rely on experts who follow the evidence for nearly all of this information). Any doctor or anyone else who doesn't follow that is full of shit (and unfortunately there are doctors out there who don't follow the evidence).

This shouldn't be treated like religion. When it is you end up with people like DBS who follow superstitions about what magical substances exist in their homes causing mysterious ailments. It's like they're living in caves worshiping the guy in the sky who makes the sun chase the moon away.

[Fritz]

^^^And why does that bother you so much?

[Dexter Rutecki]

Personally, when I hear people make claims that aren't true it often bothers me--at least if the claims are about something that matters. And in this case, as with other things that matter, when people believe falsehoods it is actually dangerous. People have literally died (this year) due to myths about vaccines, etc. It's dangerous to the people around them, to children, and to themselves (and sure, people can do what they like to themselves, but when they end up in intensive care because they believed garbage about vaccines we all pay for it and physicians/hospitals have to devote massive resources when a dime's worth of vaccine could have prevented it).

And I wouldn't say it bothers me so much as I simply am amazed by the ignorance. When I say DBS is a fucking idiot I'm not upset or angry, just baffled...and after years of this a little exasperated.