OFFICIAL 2017 MLB THREAD

[Danno]

without looking, crime dog put up his best numbers before offense exploded. i like edgar but i don’t think i’ve seen a dh that deserves to go in. vizquel never struck me as a hall of famer, maybe i’ll change my tune though.

vlad though, that guy had it. i remember the first time i saw him in at the big o, a few months to 20 years ago. the sound his bat made when he connected.

OPS+ is a stat that would account for overall offense, ie it's relative to the rest of the league for a given year (I think, but am not sure, that it's park-adjusted too).

[Danno]

All that and the only thing you can counter with re: Omar was that he was "overrated"? Come on man!

11 Gold Gloves. Similar numbers to Ozzie. The best middle infield percentage in history. Put Omar in the Hall!

Because he asked for an argument about crime dog vs Edgar.

Omar just wasn't a good enough hitter, and without looking up stats, I think he was an excellent fielder for a long time, but I'm pretty sure the stats geeks put him well behind Ozzie.

And at no point in his career did people look at him and say "that guy is a future hall of famer".

[The AD]

Omar Vizquel just doesn't cut it. The main point in his favor is he played an important defensive position well for a long time, but unless you're one of the greatest, if not the greatest defensive player of all-time (see Ozzie Smith), that's not going to cut it.

Danno's comparison of Edgar to McGriff was spot on. Edgar was clearly the better player and McGriff was no slouch. Edgar deserves to be in the Hall.

The argument that DHs shouldn't be in because they only play half the game is retarded. No one says this about AL starting pitchers who only play half the game in about 35 games per year. By this argument no closer should ever get in. They play about one inning per game in maybe 1/2 of the total games. The offensive bar should be higher for a player who was primarily a DH, but I think Edgar was above that bar.

[BmillsSkier]

Because he asked for an argument about crime dog vs Edgar.

Omar just wasn't a good enough hitter, and without looking up stats, I think he was an excellent fielder for a long time, but I'm pretty sure the stats geeks put him well behind Ozzie.

And at no point in his career did people look at him and say "that guy is a future hall of famer".

Omar Vizquel just doesn't cut it. The main point in his favor is he played an important defensive position well for a long time, but unless you're one of the greatest, if not the greatest defensive player of all-time (see Ozzie Smith), that's not going to cut it.

Danno's comparison of Edgar to McGriff was spot on. Edgar was clearly the better player and McGriff was no slouch. Edgar deserves to be in the Hall.

The argument that DHs shouldn't be in because they only play half the game is retarded. No one says this about AL starting pitchers who only play half the game in about 35 games per year. By this argument no closer should ever get in. They play about one inning per game in maybe 1/2 of the total games. The offensive bar should be higher for a player who was primarily a DH, but I think Edgar was above that bar.

Wrong.

http://espn1420.com/sorry-ozzie-fans-vizquel-is-better/

Put Omar in the Hall.

[The AD]

Wrong.

http://espn1420.com/sorry-ozzie-fans-vizquel-is-better/

Put Omar in the Hall.

You're quoting an article that postulates that Vizquel was better defensively than Ozzie solely based on the fact that he committed fewer errors? Take a lap.

[Danno]

Multiple laps.

[mcski]

Omar's comin!!!

[The AD]

Ozzie played 2511 games at short and had 12905 chances. Omar played 2709 games at short with 11961 chances. Subtract the difference in errors, and Ozzie converted 846 more balls in play to outs in 198 fewer games than Omar. That's astonishing.

[Danno]

http://amp.si.com/mlb/2017/12/06/oma...me-ballot-2018

Exhaustive case against Omar.

[irul&ublo]

It’s 2018 and the Red Sox still suck

[ex-powderbroker]

OPS+ is a stat that would account for overall offense, ie it's relative to the rest of the league for a given year (I think, but am not sure, that it's park-adjusted too).

You're right about OPS but he still led the league in home runs a couple of times with numbers from the last deadball era. And although we are using modern stats to interpret these players careers now, if you go back and reevaluate how he did yearly it seems like he was cheated out of a few all star appearances and had at least one great case for a MVP award here. If he hit another 7 home runs Thome certainly wouldn't have had sole claim to the 'last untarnished slugger' mantle. I mean, 493 is still a lot of home runs, like almost 200 more than Edgar.

Meh, lock the door on both of them. As much as I appreciate advanced metrics the hall probably should not become just the 'best OPS' building even if the occasional Jack Morris or Jim Rice sneak in undeservedly.

[BmillsSkier]

http://amp.si.com/mlb/2017/12/06/oma...me-ballot-2018

Exhaustive case against Omar.

Nice article.

But right smack in the middle it states “his Hall of Fame Monitor is on the side of more likely than not”

And right at the start it points out he’s logged more hits than all but 4 SStops, all of which are in the Hall.

I know he’s not a slam dunk but I bet after getting through this years stacked ballot (30% I think?) his chances are pretty good over the next 5.

[KQ]

Guess this should go in a new 2018 thread but I'll let you guys start it so:


Cleveland Indians To Abandon Racist Chief Wahoo Logo Next Year

[BmillsSkier]

Guess this should go in a new 2018 thread but I'll let you guys start it so:


Cleveland Indians To Abandon Racist Chief Wahoo Logo Next Year

Meh, it’s been coming for a long time anyway. Good for them. I’ve aleays been a fan of the Script “I” or Block “C” anyway.

[Viva]

Cleveland has a baseball team?

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[BmillsSkier]

Cleveland has a baseball team?

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

Now that’s offensive.

[Timberridge]

Cleveland has a baseball team?

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

And a football team

[Diamond Joe]

Guess this should go in a new 2018 thread but I'll let you guys start it

Paging Sluff to the white courtesy phone

[BmillsSkier]

And a football team

Still open to interpretation of “football team”.

[irul&ublo]

And a football team

Which is also offensive (except when it comes to scoring points)

[SkiBall]

The Browns. Brought to you by the color orange.

[Supermoon]

Which is also offensive (except when it comes to scoring points)

Slow clap.

[irul&ublo]

It Ain't The Red Sox

[BmillsSkier]

It Ain't The Red Sox

15/2 odds to win it all?

THEY'RE STARTING TO COME TOGETHER!

[Sirshredalot]

It Ain't The Red Sox

It looks like the current favorite is more strongly associated with homoeroticism than the Sox. Good for them. It's 2018.