"All weather" tires in place of winter tires

[PNWbrit]

Sorry to distract from the studs VS studless dead horse beatathon...

But does anyone have any experience with snow tires for trucks? Ideally load range E. The Blizzaks on my truck are at 50%, and its time for new ones.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ighlight=truck

[Toadman]

I am going to second this.
Disclaimer- They are on my truck- our third vehicle. It tows a boat occasionally, acts as a spare, occasionally road trips for paddling, and plows the driveway. I don't do anything with the truck that tests dry road handling- it is a 99 f150 7700.

On dry roads, I don't notice them. My truck drives like a truck.
On dirt, they are surprisingly good. When out scouting ski lines in the woods, I use 4 WD much less than I would expect.

Snow- they rock. I have a steep driveway, no weight in the back of the truck. With these tires, I can plow down hill into a pile of snow knowing I can back right out. I have an icy flat spot that I used to get stuck in with various other tire set ups. Other than chains, these are the only tires I have used. Hard to find any bad reviews online on these.

They are definitely going on my Promaster conversion.
When I get one.

Similar experience as well. Have been running them for for about 3 seasons on my Frontier. Had the original version of the Rotiiva on a prior truck. However, once these tires hit the 50% wear mark, like just about all tires, they lose their grip both on snow and wet conditions. Truly an amazing tire the first 12k miles. They are very good in snow and wet weather conditions when new. Still not as good as a dedicated snow tire on ice.

[Toadman]

how cold ? cuz traction increases as the temps go down so if its -30 or 40 C you will have a fair amount of traction while snow at around freezing or 0C is the most slippery

Ok then how about sarah palin ?

Um, your all season tire rubber compound will freeze, and not work so hot at temps under 32F. Really the winter compounding technology has come along way in the past decade. More so than tread pattern design. I don't see a magic bullet out there just yet for an all season tire that will crush it in winter driving. But they have come a bit of the way. You still are giving up something with an all season tire.

[TurxSki]

Jalopnik weighed in today, but steered clear of studs/no studs, in favor of "Winter" vs "Performance Winter"...
https://jalopnik.com/a-guide-to-how-...ign=2018-01-08

[bodywhomper]

Around here for Load Range E, it's either Duratrac or BFG K02. I personally like the Duratrac have run a variety of size on different trucks/suvs and haven't been let down. I had a bad experience with K02 but other people seem to like them so YMMV.

can add the cooper AT-W to that ^^^ list.

all of these tests miss tires or tire options (or choose to not stud studdable tires) or are outdated. Can never expect comprehensive, i suppose, but I would think there would be more groups like consumer reports that would have more comprehensive annual tests because of the recent-ish growth in areas that require winter tires and the education the affluent skiing dentist.

it's interesting to see the mixed reviews on this forum of the WR-series tire from nokian, which was the brand and tire that defined this genre.

[AlpiNord]

I just took off a set of WR3's that had 30K on them and had worn down to the indicators with Toyo Celsius. Hopefully they're better. Very disappointed with the Nokes.

What vehicle and usage on yours?

My WR3s had less than 30k. They were on an AWD and did some trailer hailing. Hopefully, the replacement Celsius will last longer (75k warranty). According to the local dealer, they should.

[mall walker]

I'm too lazy to read this thread, is the tl;dr to just buy blizzaks?

[bodywhomper]

blizzaks are pretty damn good for a studless winter tire for the first 50% of tire wear. blizzaks performance sucks on warm tarmac and will wear super fast compared to the "all weather" tires. blizzaks also wear out of their winter compound about half way through their tread life (they call it their "tread cap"). many other tire companies do this, too, and are similarly forthcoming about this "tread cap".

[XXX-er]

Um, your all season tire rubber compound will freeze, and not work so hot at temps under 32F. Really the winter compounding technology has come along way in the past decade. More so than tread pattern design. I don't see a magic bullet out there just yet for an all season tire that will crush it in winter driving. But they have come a bit of the way. You still are giving up something with an all season tire.

I'm not running that shit he is

I'm just trying to rationalize how he could possibly run shitty tires on a 2wd ranger in AK

I got a ranger and i don't see it

And I only run zee best Nokian

[auvgeek]

So what "all-weather" tires are available? Are we restricting that description to tires with the snowflake rating and a 50k+ mile treadwear guarantee? Not sure if the snowflake rating makes a real-world difference, but it seems like a decent way to avoid pure the marketing nonsense.

Here's a short list I came up with. What other ones am I missing? With some brands (e.g., Continental), it's hard to tell which "all season" tires have the snowflake rating so I didn't include them.

Cars
Toyo Celsius
Nokian WR G3/4
Pirelli Sottozero 3 (?)

Crossovers
Yokohama G015
Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10

Trucks
Goodyear Duratrac
Nokian Rotiiva AT Plus
Yokohama G015 (LT-rated)
Hankook Dynapro ATM RF-10
Cooper ATW
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
BFG KO2

[TAFKALVS]

Goodyear Duratrac has the snowflake rating in all sizes.

[auvgeek]

Added

[anotherVTskibum]

So what "all-weather" tires are available? Are we restricting that description to tires with the snowflake rating and a 50k+ mile treadwear guarantee? Not sure if the snowflake rating makes a real-world difference, but it seems like a decent way to avoid pure the marketing nonsense

...

Trucks
Goodyear Duratrac
Nokian Rotiiva AT Plus
Yokohama G015 (LT-rated)
Hankook Dynapro ATM RF-10
Cooper ATW
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
BFG KO2

If the snowflake symbol on a non-winter tire is the qualifying point, the Radar Renegade A/T5 is a budget-oriented AT tire that meets the bill (for at least some sizes; my LT275/70/18s have the snowflake, not sure if all sizes do). They still suck on packed snow and ice, but having the three-peak-mountain-snowflake symbol means they're at least 10% better than a standard test tire in straight-line stopping on snow. (er, at least I think so, as I've read several synopses of the severe-winter-service spec but haven't been able to find a free copy of the full spec to read).

I'd love it if someone would do a real test comparing those snowflake-rated AT tires to themselves as well as to true winter tires in LT specifications, but I don't think that's likely to happen anytime soon.

[El Chupacabra]

When I started this thread, I was interested more in passenger car "all-weather" tires, because -- IMHO -- you can get pretty much any "all-terrain" tire for a SUV or truck and do fine in snow. You can't buy A/Ts in most passenger car sizes.

The only 3PMSF A/T tire I have owned was the Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor, which was fine in snow, on my old 4Runner. It wasn't as good in snow as the Blizzaks I had for the 4Runner, obviously, but it was perfectly adequate.

[Garth Bimble]

What vehicle and usage on yours?

My WR3s had less than 30k. They were on an AWD and did some trailer hailing. Hopefully, the replacement Celsius will last longer (75k warranty). According to the local dealer, they should.

2013 Escape AWD. My wife's car driven mostly back and forth to work. We live in a mountain subdivision though with dirt/chipseal roads and that plus the AWD probably contribute to premature wear but I'm guessing most WR's are going on AWD/4WD vehicles.

[Garth Bimble]

30k is pretty low for those, but I guess I could see it happening. I once got 25k out of a set of og BFG AT. soured me on the brand fro awhile.

Besides my disdain / phobia of nano particulate pollution caused by studs in my dog walking / running zone, the hakka 9 has to be the best snow / ice tool out there. But alas a thread on All-weather snow rated tires turns to a studs vs. non studded tire debate.

I'm running Hankook Dynapro ATM's on my Frontier PU. 25K and will probably need replacing around 30K also. Ran into a guy hiking near the house the other day, he had the BFG's on an FJ Cruiser and he raved about them...I guess it's kind of a crapshoot.

[Toadman]

I'm not running that shit he is

I'm just trying to rationalize how he could possibly run shitty tires on a 2wd ranger in AK

I got a ranger and i don't see it

And I only run zee best Nokian

No worries. Just pointing out the fact that all season tread compound isn't so hot for cold weather driving. As for someone's skill at driving with bald tires in winter, I've seen too many in ditches and upside down. But I guess some rare TGR folks just crush it driving 2WD PU's on bald tires. Got to save money somewhere...to pay for brews and skis.

[bodywhomper]

So what "all-weather" tires are available? Are we restricting that description to tires with the snowflake rating and a 50k+ mile treadwear guarantee? Not sure if the snowflake rating makes a real-world difference, but it seems like a decent way to avoid pure the marketing nonsense.

Here's a short list I came up with. What other ones am I missing? With some brands (e.g., Continental), it's hard to tell which "all season" tires have the snowflake rating so I didn't include them.

Cars
Toyo Celsius
Nokian WR G3/4
Pirelli Sottozero 3 (?)

Crossovers
Yokohama G015
Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10

Trucks
Goodyear Duratrac
Nokian Rotiiva AT Plus
Yokohama G015 (LT-rated)
Hankook Dynapro ATM RF-10
Cooper ATW
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
BFG KO2

Have yoko g015 non LT on minivan with snowflake rating. Not sure all sizes have the snowflake. Last I remember, not all sizes of the KO2 were snowflake rated.

[klauss]

So what "all-weather" tires are available? Are we restricting that description to tires with the snowflake rating and a 50k+ mile treadwear guarantee? Not sure if the snowflake rating makes a real-world difference, but it seems like a decent way to avoid pure the marketing nonsense.

Here's a short list I came up with. What other ones am I missing? With some brands (e.g., Continental), it's hard to tell which "all season" tires have the snowflake rating so I didn't include them.

Cars
Toyo Celsius
Nokian WR G3/4
Pirelli Sottozero 3 (?)

Crossovers
Yokohama G015
Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10

Trucks
Goodyear Duratrac
Nokian Rotiiva AT Plus
Yokohama G015 (LT-rated)
Hankook Dynapro ATM RF-10
Cooper ATW
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
BFG KO2

Here's a decent list of All-Weather Tires compiled by C&D (doesn't appear to show a bunch of brands though e.g. Cooper, Falken, Conti, Pirelli)

3PMSF passenger-car tires:

Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady
Hankook Kinergy 4S (Canada only)
Michelin CrossClimate + (limited sizes available)
Nokian WRG3
Toyo Celsius
Vredestein Quatrac5

3PMSF Light-Truck (LT) tires:

BFGoodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT
BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2
BFGoodrich Commercial T/A Traction
General Grabber AT2 (select sizes)
Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure with Kevlar (select sizes)
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac (all but one size)
Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor
Goodyear Wrangler TrailRunner AT (select sizes)
Hankook Dynapro AT-M
Kumho Road Venture AT51
Nitto Exo Grappler AWT
Nokian Rotiiva AT
Nokian Rotiiva AT Plus
Nokian WR C3
Nokian WRG3 SUV
Toyo Celsius CUV
Yokohama Geolandar A/T G015

[Chugachjed]

I'm not running that shit he is

I'm just trying to rationalize how he could possibly run shitty tires on a 2wd ranger in AK

I got a ranger and i don't see it

And I only run zee best Nokian

I was broke as fuck. Like only eating once a day and only on days I worked. I got super good life out of my WRG2's I'm surprised the G3 isn't as long lived.

[jgb@etree]

I was broke as fuck. Like only eating once a day and only on days I worked. I got super good life out of my WRG2's I'm surprised the G3 isn't as long lived.

I've had the same experience. I used to get great tread life out of the WRG2, but am 13k into a set of WRG3's and they've already down past the winter tread indicators.

They were comprable to the G2's grip on snow when new, and still do a damn fine job on everything else but just dont seem to wear as well.

This type of tire seems well suited to southern new england where snow tires are good for the occasional snowfall but 98% of driving is on black roads.

[oldblue]

I've had the same experience. I used to get great tread life out of the WRG2, but am 13k into a set of WRG3's and they've already down past the winter tread indicators.

They were comprable to the G2's grip on snow when new, and still do a damn fine job on everything else but just dont seem to wear as well.

This type of tire seems well suited to southern new england where snow tires are good for the occasional snowfall but 98% of driving is on black roads.

Can't comment on the G2 vs G3 wear issue but I think part of the wear issue in general with 4 season tires is the temperatures they see the rest of the year. Northern regions, cooler summers, these tires probably wear very well. Places like Colorado (not at altitude), Cali, etc. you're probably going to burn through them pretty damn fast.

I kind of think tire manufacturers are at fault here for marketing these the way they do.

[AweShuksan]

And a 21 year old from anchorage has more winter driving experience than aweshuksan has in 35 years in WA.

Where's the emoji of the guy rolling on the floor and pounding his fists in laughter? Cause I need it now.

You brought up my lack of winter driving experience? I have been a backcountry skier for 36 years and have extensive winter driving experience in Montana, British Columbia and Washington. I was responsible for driving supply trucks, crew trucks and shuttle vans at two ski areas and have cross-country winter driving experience in Utah, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Wyoming, both Dakotas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania (and others).

I've never driven in the winter in Alaska because I've always been on a commercial boat when I've visited (and it was always in the summer). So I guess it would depend upon WHICH 21 year old from Anchorage, because not many of them would have logged more winter miles. So don't try to belittle my winter experience based upon a single location.

Even modern studs wear more quickly than a good studless winter tire. When the studs are worn down you have a crappy winter tire. No, I don't buy the studless that only have winter rubber for the first half of the tire life. What a folly.

[AweShuksan]

Can't comment on the G2 vs G3 wear issue but I think part of the wear issue in general with 4 season tires is the temperatures they see the rest of the year. Northern regions, cooler summers, these tires probably wear very well. Places like Colorado (not at altitude), Cali, etc. you're probably going to burn through them pretty damn fast.

I kind of think tire manufacturers are at fault here for marketing these the way they do.

Exactly! Tools and rims are cheap. Panel beating and hospitals are not. Neither is replacing your "all weather" tires every 25K.

Buy a fucking floor jack and pneumatic impact driver for the lug nuts and change them out twice a year. It takes all of 15-20 minutes.

[Garth Bimble]

Exactly! Tools and rims are cheap. Panel beating and hospitals are not. Neither is replacing your "all weather" tires every 25K.

Buy a fucking floor jack and pneumatic impact driver for the lug nuts and change them out twice a year. It takes all of 15-20 minutes.

I'm thinking this may be the best option, actually. Even if you unmount/remount on the same rims it's probably cheaper.