where do these sexual assault people come from?

[TahoeJ]

We have a rapey/molesty fucking president....he has a long track record of being on that spectrum, and we nominated him for a major party and elected him president. That should say it all about our culture's level of comfort with creepy men.

And it's worth noting that the big "swing" demographic that allowed Trump to win was white women. So again, there's a lot of shitty guys out there but many women aren't doing their part to stop the pattern.

[iceman]

And it's worth noting that the big "swing" demographic that allowed Trump to win was white women. So again, there's a lot of shitty guys out there but many women aren't doing their part to stop the pattern.

Actually no that was largely Blacks. It was Blacks failing to vote that was the real swing that elected Trump, the numbers are pretty clear and have been since the election: https://www.forbes.com/sites/omriben.../#72141fe153ab If Black voters turned out in similar numbers to 2012 and voted in a similar way, Clinton romps.

edit: not that it's relevant here, sorry.

[TahoeJ]

I wasn't talking about voter turnout or lack thereof - that's a given. My point was, Trump won WAY more white female votes than he should have, if they give it shit about drawing a line in the sand against sexually aggressive, creepy men.

As for the Weinstein thing, there's a huge double standard going on that's unfair to men in Hollywood. And I'm not talking about the assholes. Women didn't come forward out of fear and being blacklisted... I'm certain the exact same thing applies to men who knew about this but were also afraid to say or do anything about it. But apparently that doesn't apply to them? Weinstein held just as much power in the industry over men as he did women.

[JellyBear]

[mtngirl79]

some not many and is actively enforced if brought to a mods attention, as explained earlier.

Booners picture is still up and I reported it.

[cloudpeak]

62% of white men voted for Trump. This demographic played a significant role in Trump’s election.

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

[jono]

what you're saying is you don't give a shit how other women here feel about it. only the one in the pic.

If you can (just for a moment, if necessary) assume the posted pics aren't actually illegal, it seems like this might be the core question. And at first glance I'm with you--it really does make sense until you think about it. Then you have to ask yourself why anyone's opinion matters except the person in the pic and the one posting it (assuming they're not the same person.) If others are able to clearly decide whether to look or not, then what's the basis for being offended by someone else's choices? Is it the degradation of the community versus the right of an individual woman to choose what to do with her own body, or is there more to it than that? Because "slut shaming" is bad, right?

[Dexter Rutecki]

Actually no that was largely Blacks. It was Blacks failing to vote that was the real swing that elected Trump, the numbers are pretty clear and have been since the election: https://www.forbes.com/sites/omriben.../#72141fe153ab

If we blame black women we can all be right.

Interesting that would-be censors think we can ban photos and somehow not be censoring anything.

I haven't looked through more than a few pages of that thread, but on the last page every photo is very clearly consensual, and one guy even offered his wife's (the subject's) commentary on the photo being posted there. Not sure how those facts square with the idea of the thread being replete with non-consensual photos. Would like to hear how the women doing this are contributors to rape culture--as I asked before, who gets to draw the line? Is a nude photo of anyone bad? Nude paintings? Art (and who decides what is art)? Obviously these are somewhat academic, but relevant questions that have been asked in other venues for a long time. I am still on the side of not having those threads here, but I am also on the side of letting people generally post what they want. I think it could be worth trying to convince the people here, though, that the porn is actually detrimental to what we probably want. OTOH I am also not convinced that the reason we have so few women is directly due to those threads (but they don't help).

[Mazderati]

So is Greg deleting his own posts or is someone doing it for him?

[PNWbrit]

This place is at best only mediocre for pornography. Kind of the Warren Miller of internet boobage.

It really wouldn't hurt if TGR made it porn free, more kid/woman friendly, SFW... call it what ever you want.

[mtngirl79]

If you can (just for a moment, if necessary) assume the posted pics aren't actually illegal, it seems like this might be the core question. And at first glance I'm with you--it really does make sense until you think about it. Then you have to ask yourself why anyone's opinion matters except the person in the pic and the one posting it (assuming they're not the same person.) If others are able to clearly decide whether to look or not, then what's the basis for being offended by someone else's choices? Is it the degradation of the community versus the right of an individual woman to choose what to do with her own body, or is there more to it than that? Because "slut shaming" is bad, right?

All I care about is consent, and the burden of proof being placed on the poster.

[Mazderati]

All I care about is consent, and the burden of proof being placed on the poster.

I thought we agreed determination of consent is difficult in the other thread. The question I asked was who determines if consent was provided? To that you seemed to suggest pornography should not be allowed on TGR.

[wyeaster]

If you can (just for a moment, if necessary) assume the posted pics aren't actually illegal, it seems like this might be the core question. And at first glance I'm with you--it really does make sense until you think about it. Then you have to ask yourself why anyone's opinion matters except the person in the pic and the one posting it (assuming they're not the same person.) If others are able to clearly decide whether to look or not, then what's the basis for being offended by someone else's choices? Is it the degradation of the community versus the right of an individual woman to choose what to do with her own body, or is there more to it than that? Because "slut shaming" is bad, right?

like i said, you're saying you don't give a shit about how other women who spend time here feel or who would spend time here except for this bullshit feel. maybe some of them like it. maybe some of them have been bludgeoned over a lifetime accept that this is how men are in private and sometimes in public. but i remember posting a half dozen very attractive cocks and this place went berzerk so who can make generalizations about how women feel about a website that promotes sharing of sexualized images along with salacious commentary? if we had more than 10 women who posted here regularly we could do a survey. maybe we should find out why there are so few women here and then we can do that survey.

even more hilarious that you're apparently trying to couch this in terms of a woman's right v. slut shaming.

[Mazderati]

Damn it, Greg.

[wyeaster]

it sort of reminds me of a party i went to with a bunch of guys i was friends with at a restaurant i worked at for several years. apparently part of their lifestyle had escaped me as the party moved to their house and i got there a little late to find 3 guys sitting next to each other on a couch and two other guys in recliners drinking beer (we'd already done all the coke) and watching (straight) porn on a big screen.

not. my. scene.

[Mazderati]

but i remember posting a half dozen very attractive cocks and this place went berzerk so who can make generalizations about how women feel about a website that promotes sharing of sexualized images along with salacious commentary?

Do you understand how some might see your attack on porn as hypocritical given your own contributions?

[jono]

like i said, you're saying you don't give a shit about how other women who spend time here feel or who would spend time here except for this bullshit feel. maybe some of them like it. maybe some of them have been bludgeoned over a lifetime accept that this is how men are in private and sometimes in public. but i remember posting a half dozen very attractive cocks and this place went berzerk so who can make generalizations about how women feel about a website that promotes sharing of sexualized images along with salacious commentary? if we had more than 10 women who posted here regularly we could do a survey. maybe we should find out why there are so few women here and then we can do that survey.

even more hilarious that you're apparently trying to couch this in terms of a woman's right v. slut shaming.

That's some funny shit right there. I guess I never considered the relative attractiveness of your cock-pics before now. But I guess I'd have to be finding them in some thread I purposely clicked on, so maybe it's not up to me to be concerned. And to be clear, I'm not trying to couch it at all, I'm just trying to see how you reconcile opposing rights. The rest of the discussion is predictable to the point of boredom. Are you ok with slut shaming? I feel like there's not a lot of daylight between that and most efforts to change society toward less objectification of women, but if you (or, more importantly, the handful of women here) have found the middle ground there I'm very curious to hear about it.

[Supermoon]

Aren't professional photographers using releases because the application is commercial? Are releases required when the use is not commercial?




Define "illegal sexually exploitive [sic] photos."

1 - sure. But the point is that the onus is on the photographer to positively prove consent. Not the other way around, which is how many on here are approaching it. I.e. saying anyone can post whatever photo they want and if the subject of the photo has a problem they can ask for it to be removed.

2 - in this case I’m referring to non-consensual nude photos being posted, but that would be inclusive of much more in general

[Supermoon]

I thought we agreed determination of consent is difficult in the other thread. The question I asked was who determines if consent was provided? To that you seemed to suggest pornography should not be allowed on TGR.

Just because it might be difficult doesn’t mean we as the users, or TGR as the forum host, just get to punt on the issue.

[ill-advised strategy]

couple things....

The key psychological issue at play here is men who are aroused by, or in spite of, women who aren't aroused by them. So rape. So groping women who've shown no interest. So jerking off in front of women who aren't into it. So weird spy-type non-consensual porn. So most prostitution.

So the litmus test of awful or not, should be the level and type of participation of the woman. If it's not clear the woman's into it, it's awful. If you're aroused by situations where the woman involved isn't into it, you should take a good hard look at yourself and your sexual interests and your developmental psychology and start to work on that problem before you fuck up and harm someone.

Also...mtng: I take issue with part of your POV here: you're saying if I'm not actively fighting something I feel it's OK. That's absurd, and here's why: you're not actively fighting ISIS: I guess you think ISIS beheading people is OK right?
It's not so black and white. There is room between actively crusading against something and liking it. The wedging of us into "fighting it" and "loving it" is BS, and I think you're smart enough and complex enough to understand that right?

[jono]

like i said, you're saying you don't give a shit about how other women who spend time here feel or who would spend time here except for this bullshit feel.

This is false. I definitely care how they feel and I'm interested in hearing. I'm just not sure if their opinions should be decisive any more than yours or mine, which to be fair, should definitely come last of all.

[Mazderati]

1 - sure. But the point is that the onus is on the photographer to positively prove consent. Not the other way around, which is how many on here are approaching it. I.e. saying anyone can post whatever photo they want and if the subject of the photo has a problem they can ask for it to be removed.

2 - in this case I’m referring to non-consensual nude photos being posted, but that would be inclusive of much more in general

A. Proving consent is near impossible. If the poster says consent was established but the reader says consent looks suspect what should be done?

2. Right, agreement on legality is probably reasonably easy but sexually exploitative is a bag of worms.

[Mazderati]

Just because it might be difficult doesn’t mean we as the users, or TGR as the forum host, just get to punt on the issue.

Then you get the same question as mtngirl. Who makes the determination on whether consent was established?

[wyeaster]

Do you understand how some might see your attack on porn as hypocritical given your own contributions?

i can see how a bunch of dudes defending their right to share e-boners would see it that way.

[wyeaster]

That's some funny shit right there. I guess I never considered the relative attractiveness of your cock-pics before now. But I guess I'd have to be finding them in some thread I purposely clicked on, so maybe it's not up to me to be concerned. And to be clear, I'm not trying to couch it at all, I'm just trying to see how you reconcile opposing rights. The rest of the discussion is predictable to the point of boredom. Are you ok with slut shaming? I feel like there's not a lot of daylight between that and most efforts to change society toward less objectification of women, but if you (or, more importantly, the handful of women here) have found the middle ground there I'm very curious to hear about it.

why do you keep talking about slut shaming?