where do these sexual assault people come from?

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2017, 04:10 PM

All these guys who are apparently complete degenerates, acting like the world's biggest assholes (even worse than that, actually). I get that some of it is a power thing, but there are plenty of ways to assert dominance that don't involve whipping it out, or worse.

Seriously, what the fuck? When did masturbating in front of some (unwilling) woman even become a thing? Or a 32 year old coming on to a 14 year old? Or bragging about grabbing pussies? And how come AFAIK I don't personally know anyone who has ever done (been accused or otherwise) something like this? I've been present when guys (and even occasionally a woman) have made an awkward, inappropriate sexual comment, but I don't think it was ever anything that someone would have made an official complaint about.

I just don't get it. And the whole idea of forcing yourself on someone just seems beyond bizarre--to me it would be like deciding to eat glass. Doesn't make any fucking sense. Can't get my head around it.

Clearly there are psychological issues at play, but I find these stories disturbing and kind of frustrating. Makes me want to drop bricks on the heads of the perps until they get a clue. Unreal.

I have never been a fan of the anti-male strain of feminism, but this kind of shit sure makes it more understandable.

**JimmyCarter** · 11-09-2017, 04:23 PM

Mostly this^
The reason a lot of these people end up in power is because power is what they wanted, or at least that's the feedback loop that drives them. Would be silly to think it's limited to just business success.

**hutash** · 11-09-2017, 04:32 PM

There are a large number of asshole men out there. Start acting like one of them, making okay among bros, and you will find them. Just ask Billy Bush. Once you encourage the behavior, justify it some men will tell you about their inappropriate conquests.

Just about every woman I know has some story about being sexually harassed, and a few out alright assaulted. I used to shocked by it, but I have heard it from far too many women to think it is not super common. No doubt the vast majority of men don't do this, but the ones that do rack up serious numbers. Cosby's and Weinstein's harass 100s
If not thousands of women.

**mtngirl79** · 11-09-2017, 04:33 PM

You must not be paying attention. It's everywhere.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2017, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by hutash

There are a large number of asshole men out there. Start acting like one of them, making okay among bros, and you will find them.

I hear that, but I was speaking with a guy I know who has spent his entire career on Wall Street, surrounded by mostly male traders and those types of guys, and he also mentioned that he's never personally encountered anything that approaches the kinds of stories we're hearing now (he heard about a few things, but he felt they were fairly isolated incidents, unconfirmed, and literally only two or three over 20+ years).

Originally Posted by mtngirl79

You must not be paying attention. It's everywhere.

I don't know what this means--it's not like I'm oblivious to things happening around me. If I had heard or been present for anything remotely similar I would definitely have noticed. This isn't a matter of not paying attention (I will grant that I also have never really gone around asking female co-workers if they have stories to tell--but I've had plenty of female friends at work and none ever mentioned anything to me, except for one who had a boss who sometimes stood too close to her--I am also excluding some incidents on the subway involving wackos who pulled down their pants or something).

**Game Over** · 11-09-2017, 05:06 PM

Fuck this story.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 11-09-2017, 05:07 PM

^^^^The fact the people don't/won't/can't tell you about it is part of the reason why it is able to occur.

**Mazderati** · 11-09-2017, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Clearly there are psychological issues at play, but I find these stories disturbing and kind of frustrating. Makes me want to drop bricks on the heads of the perps until they get a clue. Unreal.

A stat mentioned on the radio today was ~75% of victimizers have themselves been victims in some capacity.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2017, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mazderati

A stat mentioned on the radio today was ~75% of victimizers have themselves been victims in some capacity.

Good point, and believable.

In terms of some people not really encountering this, isn't it likely that some places have a kind of culture that makes this behavior possible? I feel pretty certain that most of the places I have worked would have fired people if there had been even a whiff of this (people were let go for far less).

**that dude who did that thing** · 11-09-2017, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

I hear that, but I was speaking with a guy I know who has spent his entire career on Wall Street, surrounded by mostly male traders and those types of guys, and he also mentioned that he's never personally encountered anything that approaches the kinds of stories we're hearing now (he heard about a few things, but he felt they were fairly isolated incidents, unconfirmed, and literally only two or three over 20+ years).

I don't know what this means--it's not like I'm oblivious to things happening around me. If I had heard or been present for anything remotely similar I would definitely have noticed. This isn't a matter of not paying attention (I will grant that I also have never really gone around asking female co-workers if they have stories to tell--but I've had plenty of female friends at work and none ever mentioned anything to me, except for one who had a boss who sometimes stood too close to her--I am also excluding some incidents on the subway involving wackos who pulled down their pants or something).

You just need to understand that it DOES occur, a lot. Millions of women have now publicly said that this occurs, a lot. So, okay, you haven't seen it. You don't THINK your friend group includes guys who are like this. You sure don't understand it (most of us don't, but I also don't understand lots of criminal behavior). All that's okay, but the reality is, it's everywhere. So, what lesson do you take when millions of women are telling you it happens, and you don't see it? Well, you (and I) probably have been a little bit oblivious. We've let pass the minor episodes when they did occur. Our female friends didn't tell us about it, because they live in a world where there is no dam way they can tell you whether you are one of the good guys or not, and even if you are, they have no way to tell whether you'll actually believe them. Even if you do believe, they also live in a world where sharing that info, almost never ends well for them.

So, this shit goes on, it goes on all th etime, and an awful lot of us are oblivious to it (no fault implied, just stating the facts). That set of circumstances should lead us to a particular place: one where we actively work to end it, where we pursue public policy that will end it, and where we believe the victims, and punish the perps.

Also, you gotta remember, the shitheads doing this are TRYING to make sure you do't know about it. So it becomes our job to find out.

**mall walker** · 11-09-2017, 05:45 PM

It can sound unbelievable to a decent person that their peers are doing this, but one of human beings' best skills is getting used to something. You do something, you get away with it, you keep doing it, poof a habit is formed. If you're that much of a scumbag then probably your friends are too, poof echo chamber reinforcing your behavior. Couple this with our still very male-dominated workforce (generally) and the abuser is often in a position of economic power over the subordinate, there's sometimes huge disincentive to report this stuff... you could miss your mortgage payments and lose the house, kids don't eat, etc.

Also there are a fair amount of people whose explicit foreground view is that women are inferior and so on (or aggrieved incel MRA types), it's unsurprising someone like that could abuse someone without feeling or acting remorseful around others. Not to mention those who have themselves been the victim of abuse, etc ad infinitum.

People cut people up and leave the bits in dumpsters, nothing should be surprising right?

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2017, 06:09 PM

Oh, I would never deny it happens, and apparently quite a lot. I just feel almost certain that at least at a few places where I worked it didn't happen (while I was there)--very small places where we all knew too much about each other. At least it didn't happen during normal work hours--woulda been impossible to hide.

Bigger places, sure, lots of things happened I didn't know about. But I still wonder if there are just some workplaces that are led by scumbags who effectively give license to other scumbags to pull this shit. So the scumbags would gravitate toward places where they are comfortable acting this way.

Again, no denial or argument about how prevalent this may be, but I know that if anything like this had been openly happening around me I (and others) would have known. Bottom line is I still can't imagine what makes people do these things, and then why they believe they should be able to get away with it. Pisses me off.

**PNWbrit** · 11-09-2017, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

if anything like this had been openly happening around me I (and others) would have known.

Yeah. that's what "openly happening" means....

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2017, 06:14 PM

To add, anything is possible, so maybe all sorts of shit happened that I missed. But I still have the feeling that this happens more in some environments than others, and is easier to get away with at certain places. Workplace cultures vary enormously in all sorts of ways.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2017, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Yeah. that's what "openly happening" means....

Umm, there are a lot of things that happen openly that I wouldn't take note of. This is different.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2017, 06:16 PM

And my point, since it somehow wasn't clear, was that this apparently does happen fairly openly at some places. I haven't personally experienced that.

**Game Over** · 11-09-2017, 06:23 PM

U of O averages multiple student athletes a year expelled for sexual assault.

**oftpiste** · 11-09-2017, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by that dude who did that thing

Also, you gotta remember, the shitheads doing this are TRYING to make sure you don't know about it.

This is the answer to your question, along with the fact that victims so often do not report.

**plugboots** · 11-09-2017, 07:07 PM

Dex, these assholes are everywhere. My first job out of college using my degree was as an epidemiologist. All cases of STD's needed to be reported by physicians, and I had one early on brought to me that was a young baby boy with gonorrhea. I was so naive that for a moment or two I didn't understand how it could happen. Even now, 34 years later I...

After that experience, none of this shit even remotely surprises me, and I hope the metoo program etc. helps get these fuckers.

KQ · 11-09-2017, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

it's not like I'm oblivious to things happening around me. If I had heard or been present for anything remotely similar I would definitely have noticed. This isn't a matter of not paying attention (I will grant that I also have never really gone around asking female co-workers if they have stories to tell--but I've had plenty of female friends at work and none ever mentioned anything to me, except for one who had a boss who sometimes stood too close to her--I am also excluding some incidents on the subway involving wackos who pulled down their pants or something).

See below:

Originally Posted by hutash

There are a large number of asshole men out there. Start acting like one of them, making okay among bros, and you will find them.

I'm guessing you give off a vibe of respectability that tells people you would not approve of such behavior so they keep themselves in check around you. As for the women not telling you not everyone wants to talk about it esp. with someone they respect and want to be respected by. Not that it is the woman's fault but many who are harassed fear being accused of bringing it on themselves.

**wyeaster** · 11-09-2017, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by steepconcrete

U of O averages multiple student athletes a year expelled for sexual assault.

just think about all the general population and -- <gasp> fraternity-based -- sexual assaults you know nothing about!

http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/campus/

**Alaskan Rover** · 11-09-2017, 07:25 PM

It's an alpha male thing. It has been that way for millennia. Alpha males of whatever social group assert their dominance over the females and beta males as a way of selecting their DNA over and superseding that of lesser males. Their obnoxious actions towards females is not obnoxious in their minds...just normal. According Dr. Jane Goodall, these alpha males can also be very tender toward their females when not knocking them to the ground for the tiniest of transgressions.

Fortunately, most humans have evolved beyond much of this ape behavior and these human alpha males are now being called out for this behavior by females and beta males who have finally had enough of their bullshit.

**buttahflake** · 11-09-2017, 07:28 PM

I'm so beta, my car has 248,000 miles on it. And It doesn't bother me at all. And my mother is FBI, full blooded irish. Love my mother. Always hated frat boys, and I love LSD and shrooms.
Let's Party

**Game Over** · 11-09-2017, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by wyeaster

just think about all the general population and -- <gasp> fraternity-based -- sexual assaults you know nothing about!

http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/campus/

Or the ones I do know about. A group HS buddies from several years rushed phi si and we lost touch because in my punk rocker mind frats were the worst. So at a after party during our tenth reunion we all get absolutely shit faced drunk and they start going down memory lane. It was sad.