Too Many Tourists In Colorado

[neckdeep]

Too many tourists in Yellowstone. Any of you guys been up there lately? Tourist traffic has nearly doubled in the last 20 years but they haven't added a single fucking parking spot. Not one. There's hardly an off-season anymore. The place is swarming with Chinese tourists these days; they might be even more annoying than Texans. Texans drop some money, at least. They don't pack an entire suitcase full of noodle cups when they travel.

[Shredhead]

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

[dunfree]

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

Same industry, different product and pollution problems.

[hatchgreenchile]

Too many tourists in Yellowstone. Any of you guys been up there lately? Tourist traffic has nearly doubled in the last 20 years but they haven't added a single fucking parking spot. Not one. There's hardly an off-season anymore.

Perfect example of how "busy" is very, very relative.

Busiest NPs are
1) Great Smoky Mountains - 10 million visitors on 500K acres
2) Grand Canyon - 4.7 million visitors on 1.2 million acres
3) Rocky Mountain - 4 million visitors on 260K acres
4) Yosemite - 4million visitors on 750K acres
5) Yellowstone - 4 million visitors on 2.2 million acres

You can probably share how "concentrated" those crowds are at Yellowstone. RMNP's east side is ridiculous, west side isn't too bad.

[doebedoe]

Perfect example of how "busy" is very, very relative.

Busiest NPs are
1) Great Smoky Mountains - 10 million visitors on 500K acres
2) Grand Canyon - 4.7 million visitors on 1.2 million acres
3) Rocky Mountain - 4 million visitors on 260K acres
4) Yosemite - 4million visitors on 750K acres
5) Yellowstone - 4 million visitors on 2.2 million acres

You can probably share how "concentrated" those crowds are at Yellowstone. RMNP's east side is ridiculous, west side isn't too bad.

Yellowstone is stupid busy at the popular photo-spots. But walk 500m off a paved trail and you have the place to yourself. It's wonderful. We saw 3 couples in 4 days of backpacking in the height of summer this year. Hard to see so few people at RMNP.

[neckdeep]

Perfect example of how "busy" is very, very relative.

Busiest NPs are
1) Great Smoky Mountains - 10 million visitors on 500K acres
2) Grand Canyon - 4.7 million visitors on 1.2 million acres
3) Rocky Mountain - 4 million visitors on 260K acres
4) Yosemite - 4million visitors on 750K acres
5) Yellowstone - 4 million visitors on 2.2 million acres

Not the same thing. A shit ton of those "visits" in the Smokies are just drive throughs between Gatlinburg and Cherokee. At Yellowstone, 4 million visitors come with expectations of stopping at specific thermal features. If all 10 million of the visitors to the Smokies were constantly trying to find a parking spot at the same five undersized lots, that haven't been expanded in decades, then you'd have a comparable situation. Yellowstone is more like Zion and Yosemite, where there's twice as many visitors as there is available parking.

[BmillsSkier]

Not the same thing. A shit ton of those "visits" in the Smokies are just drive throughs between Gatlinburg and Cherokee. At Yellowstone, 4 million visitors come with expectations of stopping at specific thermal features. If all 10 million of the visitors to the Smokies were constantly trying to find a parking spot at the same five undersized lots, that haven't been expanded in decades, then you'd have a comparable situation.

But they are. That butter churning and soap making cabin in Gatlinburg is one hot ticket.

[neckdeep]

But they are. That butter churning and soap making cabin in Gatlinburg is one hot ticket.

VS.




Which looks hotter?

[Timberridge]

Let loose a few Zika mosquito's. Tourist problem solved for the summer.

I went to Yellowstone in January. It was lovely, no crowds either.

[BmillsSkier]

VS.




Which looks hotter?

I'm going to have to see her in action. Until then it's a tough call.

[hatchgreenchile]

Not the same thing. A shit ton of those "visits" in the Smokies are just drive throughs between Gatlinburg and Cherokee. At Yellowstone, 4 million visitors come with expectations of stopping at specific thermal features. If all 10 million of the visitors to the Smokies were constantly trying to find a parking spot at the same five undersized lots, that haven't been expanded in decades, then you'd have a comparable situation. Yellowstone is more like Zion and Yosemite, where there's twice as many visitors as there is available parking.

Fair points...curious, do you agree with doebedoe's point that a quick walk yields the place "to yourself"?
I guess that's where I'm coming form. Yes, popular sites in NPs hold crowds, this is hardly groundbreaking material. At RMNP, good luck burning people without walking 4+ miles in. My experience at Black Canyon NP and Hawai'i Volcanos NP was the complete opposite, no issue getting away people very quickly.
I'm not very sympathetic to an argument that there are "too many tourists" at a 2.2 million acre park.

[BFD]

Well maybe in another 30 years when CO is the only place below the 50th parallel that still has snow, Denver can alternate with Vancouver, Calgary and Lillehammer until they phase out the winter games.

How crowded will it be in the high country when CO has the only ski resorts in the lower 48?
And in the summer when the Front Range, with an extra 5 million people, is looking to escape summer temperatures that breach 100degF 1-2 dozen times a summer instead of once or twice a year?

And how much will my property be worth then? I'll be old and move to Idaho or Montana or something.

some truth to this. I am moving from sea level to 8200'. bought a place so I can be local and bitch about the Texans.

[muted]

I'm not very sympathetic to an argument that there are "too many tourists" at a 2.2 million acre park.

Sounds like you have never been there. Good luck driving to the trailhead to get away from everyone when it's busy and one little bear crosses the road.

[Dantheman]

A bit stark but ya, it's going that way. Park city should be without natural snowpack in another 10-20yrs iirc.

PC skiing won't be quite the same experience when the snow line is at 8,500'.

an overload of info online (to take out any unknown while planning a trip) is a major factor. People used to go to places with just a road map and some advice from friends. The ones that didn't like the unknown stayed at home, now they get online and figure shit out.

The Internet definitely shoulders a lot of the blame.

[doebedoe]

Sounds like you have never been there. Good luck driving to the trailhead to get away from everyone when it's busy and one little bear crosses the road.

Go at off times. Seriously, there was no problem moving around Yellowstone this summer when I was there before 10am on a Saturday. Yep -- after 10am it blows in a lot of spots.

Its just like skiing, people who bitch about overcrowding at a resort are the people who can't get off the beaten path a bit. You go to a popular place at a popular time you're just fucking yourself.

I'd hate to see more highways built or expanded in Yellowstone. Stopping people from coming will do nothing to help the environmental cause writ large.

[capulin overdrive]

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

Not me, I much prefer the greasy Carhartt local, to the North Face Puffy local.

[BigDaddy]

VS.




Which looks hotter?

Depends how long you've been in the woods...

[Conundrum]

And how much will my property be worth then? I'll be old and move to Idaho or Montana or something.

So then you're just creating the problem you're leaving for other people? Sweet. Don't worry, we're seeing here too but just not as bad as CO.

[muted]

Go at off times. Seriously, there was no problem moving around Yellowstone this summer when I was there before 10am on a Saturday. Yep -- after 10am it blows in a lot of spots.

Its just like skiing, people who bitch about overcrowding at a resort are the people who can't get off the beaten path a bit. You go to a popular place at a popular time you're just fucking yourself.

I'd hate to see more highways built or expanded in Yellowstone. Stopping people from coming will do nothing to help the environmental cause writ large.

I know the off-time solution, everyone knows that solution here. Good to hear your perspective though, maybe it's not as bad as it sounds. I haven't been in the past few years (but I have thought it was too crowded for the past twenty years) and all I here is how it's significantly worse. I only went in the fall when I lived nearby.

Doing tour buses to all the stops, including time for bears crossing the road, could be a solution. Then charge more for people in cars or limiting car amounts, maybe. I don't want more parking spots or wider roads either.

[dunfree]

Its just like skiing, people who bitch about overcrowding at a resort are the people who can't get off the beaten path a bit. You go to a popular place at a popular time you're just fucking yourself.

That's adaptation, not a solution. Eventually you run out of "off the beaten path" and "unpopular times" and have to ration it someway. $ or lottery, same difference.

Not sure why people per acre matters for a national park. there's plenty of empty yosemite high country, and there's plenty of empty Sierra high country that's not in the national park, no problem escaping crowds there. But the Valley is kinda crowded and kinda a shit show often. It's also the thing that makes Yosemite Yosemite.

[summit]

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

Extraction pays one hell of a lot better, offers more stable jobs, and has less crowds. Environmental regulations are pretty strong these days. I don't harbor such a dislike for extraction.

[dunfree]

I didn't see crowds last weekend, unless you count waiting 30mins for someone else to finish a climb.

Maybe that's because you were in the midst of flat ass sagebrush and there's not much to climb?

If you want relentless positivism, say you don't give a shit about it and move the fuck on. There's plenty of cases for resources being loved to death, and you can be an adult and deal with it, or a child and say "it's wonderful". The demand for A grade most anything is increasing, the supply isn't. e.g rising prices and crowds. Substituting lower grades is fine, I do all the time for the experience I desire, but I don't pretend it's the same thing. Because it's not.

[dunfree]

If you keep posting about it on the internet, the hordes will crowd you out eventually. You aren't that special, there are many like you, and any place that has a good day sometime will get crowded on a good day if you keep telling people it's awesome. That's a fact, whether your positivism likes it or not, and whether your I came from the east coast agrees with it or not.

[digitaldeath]

Who has the fucking clout to clear my good name is god damn summit county. Who is going to stand up to the man and make them eat it

[summit]

dd only thinks "me me me"

If you keep posting about it on the internet, the hordes will crowd you out eventually. You aren't that special, there are many like you, and any place that's a good day sometime will get crowded on a good day if you keep telling people it's awesome. That's a fact, whether your positivism likes it or not, and whether your I came from the east coast agrees with it or not.

Like Loveland about 8 or 9 years ago