Car Porn.......beauty meets speed (SFW)

[BmillsSkier]

Where do the IMS failures and engine fires fit in?

Not since 2004, and considerably less than Ferrari, respectively.

[east or bust]

Porsche fanbois in this thread need to give it a rest.
They are great cars but are not even remotely close to the end all.

[schindlerpiste]

[Bobby Stainless]

Where do the IMS failures and engine fires fit in?

Cars have issues. Fast cars have more issues.

They have a better reputation for reliability than any other company in the high end. Period.

I like Ferrari more, but Porsche makes a more reliable car.

Porsche fanbois in this thread need to give it a rest.
They are great cars but are not even remotely close to the end all.

Go ahead and list the end all.

Sub $200k, Sub 3 second 0-60, over 200 mph.

I'll answer for you GT-R. That's the only cheaper competitor. Drive one, and you will know why.

[Art Shirk]

Cars have issues. Fast cars have more issues.

They have a better reputation for reliability than any other company in the high end. Period.

I like Ferrari more, but Porsche makes a more reliable car.



Go ahead and list the end all.

Sub $200k, Sub 3 second 0-60, over 200 mph.

I'll answer for you GT-R. That's the only cheaper competitor. Drive one, and you will know why.

Don't forget about farm trucks

[Mazderati]

Cars have issues. Fast cars have more issues.

They have a better reputation for reliability than any other company in the high end. Period.

I like Ferrari more, but Porsche makes a more reliable car.

Cars with issues have air conditioners that aren't cold enough. Or power windows that don't go up fast enough. Not grenades for engines. No doubt certain Porsche models set a high bar for high performance and relative reliability. But claiming Porsche is the unequivocal paragon of car construction is a steaming pile.

Not interested in cherry-picking stats but the Z06, ZR1, Viper ACR, and second generation NSX play on the same field as the 911T. Hell, the new GT350/R, Z28, and ZL1 may give the 911T a run. Of course the owner of an alternative doesn't end up with a crested key fob.

[Timberridge]

Cars with issues have air conditioners that aren't cold enough. Or power windows that don't go up fast enough. Not grenades for engines. No doubt certain Porsche models set a high bar for high performance and relative reliability. But claiming Porsche is the unequivocal paragon of car construction is a steaming pile.

Not interested in cherry-picking stats but the Z06, ZR1, Viper ACR, and second generation NSX play on the same field as the 911T. Hell, the new GT350/R, Z28, and ZL1 may give the 911T a run. Of course the owner of an alternative doesn't end up with a crested key fob.

The fact that a 50 yr old design with the engine in a place where no one building a car today would put it, can stay with or beat those cars you listed...is remarkable.

[Bromontana]

The lack of an engine up front makes it very nimble. Very easy to be precise with the front while weight is where it should be - low center of gravity biased to the wheels being powered. There are obvious balance drawbacks but if you can emphasize the good attributes and manage the negative, it ends up a net plus. I can use more throttle while cornering in the 911 than a front-mid engine 350z. The z had a loose but predictable oversteer at the limit, but it seemed to break too early. Less rubber so it makes sense but they're both OEM.. And we all know a mid-engine layout has better "balance". All that matters though is that you are excited about what you drive, if that's something that's even important. Passed a guy tonight with a new, all black vette. Plates were "GETAVET" awesome.

[Bobby Stainless]

but the Z06, ZR1, Viper ACR, ... Hell, the new GT350/R, Z28, and ZL1 may give the 911T a run.

The Ferrari F430 has an issue where the manifold cracks around 10k miles. Happens to almost every one. 10k dollar fix.

Have you ever driven those cars? They are rough, raw, track iterations of the base car. All impressive machines, but more track toys than anything. Forget about taking them out in the rain, much less snow.

While they might be able to track as fast as a 911TS, they are no where near as refined or luxurious. the Ford and Chevy is very noticeable.

The Viper ACR tries to kill the driver.

Furthermore, your average consumer can not utilize these cars to their potential. A 991 Turbo S is literally a super car that anyone can drive.

It's funny you mention the NSX, since it's had to be redesigned due to fire.

Except for the problem laden, long delayed NSX, Those cars are not in the same league. Just like a 911 isn't in the same league as a 458.

If we are simply looking at price to performance its the GT-R every time.

In the high line, no on can compete with Porsche. Personally I do not like the Panamera or Cayman. The 911 is an icon and always will be. The Macan is the best CUV on the road. The Cayenne is what all X5 drivers really want. The 918 is epic. The Boxster is the best roadster on the market. Mission 4 has put Tesla on notice. The myriad of Panamera based cars will sell well. The wagon will kill it. Panamera hasn't done well in the past few years, but big flagship sedans don't sell well. Except for the S class Benz.

They continually sit atop JD Powers, which is better than sitting at the bottom.

No other company has as many stars in their stable. While most luxury brands are getting pummeled, Porsche is breaking records.

And I like Italians.

[Bromontana]

Where do the IMS failures and engine fires fit in?

Fyi- Bmills, just got my 996 back from proactive IMS surgery. 3
5k for that effort and I used the labor to replace lots of hard to reach stuff (AOS, RMS, washers, seals, plugs, etc). Saved around a day's work doing it all at once.

The solution thing from Jake Raby is nice & comes with a warranty, highly recommend going through his network of specially trained techs if/when you move on it. Even competitors have agreed it's the ideal choice (I read the various forums too much ). The biggest weak point now is arguably the water pump, manageable.

Fwiw, outside the turbo/gt3 H6s from 1999-2008 are affected in various forms. 997.1, 996.1, 996.2, Boxster, Cayman. They have 3 diff types of internally sealed bearings, all are below the acceptable threshold for reliability as Maz points out.

[Bobby Stainless]

So the fix was 5k?

[east or bust]

Sub $200k, Sub 3 second 0-60, over 200 mph.

I'll answer for you GT-R. That's the only cheaper competitor. Drive one, and you will know why.

Z06 meets all criteria there and is ~30k less than the GT-R. GT-R is a sick car but has had a history of transmission problems, or has that been sorted out?

[Bromontana]

1.7k part, 1.8k labor, so 3.5k total for that job. Oil fed, plain bearing design used in the gt3 Mezger engines. Problem = gone

[Bobby Stainless]

1.7k part, 1.8k labor, so 3.5k total for that job. Oil fed, plain bearing design used in the gt3 Mezger engines. Problem = gone

3.5k is super cheap!

Z06 meets all criteria there and is ~30k less than the GT-R. GT-R is a sick car but has had a history of transmission problems, or has that been sorted out?

nope. Not for me.



As long as you are like every other Corvette owner and don't track, then fine. Still looks like shit IMO.

If you want to do more than two hard laps, you will need to figure out a way around the heat soak issue.

[Buster Highmen]

So if J.D. Powers rates the dependability of Audi higher than BMW, I'm unclear as to how the opinions that Audis break a lot come to be.
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/make/BMW
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/make/audi

[Bromontana]

the new ones are very Transformer-y, but this original Z06 run is a beautiful car imo. And jesus H does it have balls. Sounds like a gorilla behind the dash. Of course my dad got rid of his partially due to shit breaking every oil change interval. Wrong decision imo.



vid with a Chevy techy that helped design it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqKW3hDhmQ

[east or bust]

nope. Not for me.

guessing you don't have an early gen then

As long as you are like every other Corvette owner and don't track, then fine. Still looks like shit IMO.

oh come on, you can't make that kind of blanket statement about Corvette owners. a very small percentage of sports car drivers track their cars. especially lame ass dentists, which make up the vast majority of the demographic

I don't think this looks that bad. the two tone color scheme sucks balls though, first thing I would do it color match all the black

If you want to do more than two hard laps, you will need to figure out a way around the heat soak issue.

this is true

[Bobby Stainless]

^Looks like it's trying awfully hard, doesn't it?

I just don't like Corvettes. Never have. I've driven a bunch of them.

Some people just don't like the GT-R. Transmissions issues were largely on the 09, and due to misuse of launch control.

I guess the Z06 comes in around 80-85k. Lot of pre-owned badass can be had for that money.

I'd buy this: 2016 with 1928 miles 88k list.

[schindlerpiste]

My brother had apearl white 1972 L88 427 corvette. It was the first manual transmission car that I ever drove. I remember popping the clutch and sending the car over the curb, and onto someones lawn. I was probably 13 or 14. I'll tell you one thing, that car had balls!

I still remember the day we went to buy the car. In the dealership, on the showroom floor, there was a red Dino and the Corvette. The Dino cost ~$15K and the Corvette cost ~$6500.

[Bobby Stainless]

They've gone up in value a touch.

[stfu&gbtw]

^Looks like it's trying awfully hard, doesn't it?

As rapidly aging a design as I've seen since the Pontiac Aztec. You were right when you said the Corvette has developed into a real sports car. But it still looks like it's a plastic shell that's been bolted to a V8 engine, for which they poached the interior from the Cobalt and Volt.

[schindlerpiste]

^^^That sounds like a Bricklin

[BmillsSkier]

Fyi- Bmills, just got my 996 back from proactive IMS surgery. 3
5k for that effort and I used the labor to replace lots of hard to reach stuff (AOS, RMS, washers, seals, plugs, etc). Saved around a day's work doing it all at once.

The solution thing from Jake Raby is nice & comes with a warranty, highly recommend going through his network of specially trained techs if/when you move on it. Even competitors have agreed it's the ideal choice (I read the various forums too much ). The biggest weak point now is arguably the water pump, manageable.

Fwiw, outside the turbo/gt3 H6s from 1999-2008 are affected in various forms. 997.1, 996.1, 996.2, Boxster, Cayman. They have 3 diff types of internally sealed bearings, all are below the acceptable threshold for reliability as Maz points out.

That's great man, glad to hear it went well. I was actually talking with the fam about bringing the 996 up to his shop in N Ga and getting this done. Seems like a perfect candidate. 20k miles, gently driven, so of course something like that could happen

Through my reading it's 8% failure rate which means that 92% of them are ok at 90k miles but go fuck your self if you're in that 8% group.

I have to say I was not aware that 997s were affected at all and now I'm pouring over way too many Porsche forums trying to determine exactly at what engine they stopped using that bearing design. (Mines an 07) Some say 2006 and up you're good, some say 2008. Think I'll just call Raby and ask.

I can't recall does the solution use ceramic bearings?

[Bromontana]

The solution is a plain bearing, no balls or internal seal or grease to be stripped over time by hot oil splash (the cause of ims failure - lack of lube).

The 997.1 n/a non gt3 cars have a reinforced single row ims bearing, arguably the best of the group followed by 996.1 double row bearings. 996.2s like mine with single row bearings have the highest failure rates. But as you know, its a crap shoot on failure. 997.1 *should* be fine with the reinforced single row, but it does have the same fundamental flaw of an internal seal exposed to oil/stripping the bearing of its grease.

For me the fact that the solution eliminates the weak point entirely + having the weak single row bearing made it a no brainer. Your situation is less risky for an 07, you just have the choice to eliminate it. It is more costly to disassemble a 997.1 motor bc the ims is less accessible. Doable though, maybe even for the same qoute of 3.5k Im not 100% sure.

[DeepHelmet]

PSA: If anyone's looking for a new Porsche 918 on the cheap, and don't mind a salvage title, the one from Dave Strong's Porsche was stolen Saturday and recovered Sunday. Could probably pick it up for a cool Million.....