Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[Danno]

Thanks! We'll have more cabinets than you, I think. Our island is likely bigger, we'll have a wall of cabinets plus the fridge (along your 8'11 wall), than a few cabinets opposite the island, where the sink is. But it's good to know the ballpark. I was thinking about $5k, which is probably close to right.

[jamesp]

yes ikea cabinets are cheap but IME the actual cabinet place in town uses the same cheap shitty MDF, and only quoted cabinets in the same 3" increments so I would have ended up with filler panels. AFAIK filler panels are used in any house that isn't square (ie most houses, esp older places).

For reference the cabinet place quoted $13k, & the flat pack cabinets I got were $5k plus Ikea butcher block counters. Actual ikea cabinets were $5k also but I didn't like the colour hence we got other flat pack cabinets. Kitchen turned out great, spending big $$ for a true custom kitchen would have been a waste in my house.

edit: I was very glad to have a buddy help install them who has done it before. I'd like to think it didn't turn out any better or worse than if I did it all myself but it would have taken me 3 times as long.

[206]

We put in an ikea kitchen into my mothers home 2 years ago.

A couple times a year Ikea offers big discounts (20%?) on orders over xx. We designed it ourselves on ikea software and worked with a local contractor that specializes in ikea kitchens. He verified all measurements and installation was seamless- his guys were even able to modify some boxes to work in our space.

Went with the ceasarstone engineered quartz countertops through ikea--and with our package discount nowhere else could match the price.

We looked elsewhere for the hardware as we didnt love ikea's offering.

2 years in we could not be happier with how reasonable it was and with how it turned out.

[Yanos]

We had really good luck with IKEA cabinets. Designed the kitchen online, had them shipped to AK, with minimal damage. All-in cabinets were < $5K, though we had formica countertops done up. I was actually impressed by the hardware (Hinges, slides, etc.) The cabinets themselves are ho-hum, but the doors is what most see anyways. Knowing what you are actually getting with IKEA is the Key. Our house isn't worth $250k, so spending $20K on cabinets didn't seem like a wise decision. We have gotten plenty of compliments on our kitchen remodel, so we're happy.

If you are to go the IKEA route, I'd recommend a few things:
Order extra trim panels, pieces. The will be used.
Do not design your kitchen with tight dimensions / fitment. Most walls are not plumb, nor square, at least that is what we found in our shitty house.
If you have thoughts of using the same cabinet style/ finish else where in the house, order them all at the same time. IKEA like to discontinue colors/finishes.
Get more drawers than shelves.
IKEA typically has 20% off cabinets sale a couple times of year, but supplies tend to diminish during those sales.

[::: :::]

AFAIK filler panels are used in any house that isn't square (ie most houses, esp older places).

to be clear, filler panels are used in any installation using modular cabinetry (of all levels of quality)
(it has nothing to do with the house; tho you are correct they are rarely plumb or level)


danno, sounds like you're not alone in the ikea cabs world so you should hear some good input

[RootSkier]

So, we're actually probably going to pivot back to the guy...lacking is in the finish work, his tiling and finer carpentry left something to be desired. But his prices were excellent.

Holy massive fucking facepalm. So you are going to pay a guy AGAIN when you already know he sucks at his job? Sorry to say, but if you are noticing that his tile work and his trim work are not up to snuff, there are probably much bigger problems that you are missing.

+++++++++++++++ VIBES +++++++++++++++++++++

[Danno]

Holy massive fucking facepalm. So you are going to pay a guy AGAIN when you already know he sucks at his job? Sorry to say, but if you are noticing that his tile work and his trim work are not up to snuff, there are probably much bigger problems that you are missing.

+++++++++++++++ VIBES +++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, because every master tiler also knows plumbing and electrical and ductwork and building codes and everything else under the sun. I realize that I don't have the experience in the trades that you do but I know enough to know that a good jack of all trades isn't necessarily going to be a master at every one. And the people who work for him, even less so. He doesn't suck at his job, he did everything just fine, but to a critical eye looking for problems, we found them in the tiling and in some of the other fine details. We could have asked him to sub out the tile work, but we accepted the work for the lower price. And we'll do so again (though there's virtually no tiling in the kitchen).

But thanks for the vibes.

[jerlane]

I was just checking out a kitchen remodel and the owner was using IKEA cabinets (boxes) with a third party door and front maker made specifically for IKEA cabinets. Sounded like they were nicer than what IKEA offers and not much more expensive. If that sounds interesting, I could get the name of the company for you.

[Danno]

I was just checking out a kitchen remodel and the owner was using IKEA cabinets (boxes) with a third party door and front maker made specifically for IKEA cabinets. Sounded like they were nicer than what IKEA offers and not much more expensive. If that sounds interesting, I could get the name of the company for you.

Sure, that would be helpful. I know that there's a company called semihomemade that does Ikea fronts.

[mogul5480]

Wonder what you all think of this website: newavenuehomes.com. I am looking at it now for a remodel and it looks like a good fit for me (I trust no one - especially in markets with massive information asymmetries like construction).

[ski-wpk]

I was just checking out a kitchen remodel and the owner was using IKEA cabinets (boxes) with a third party door and front maker made specifically for IKEA cabinets. Sounded like they were nicer than what IKEA offers and not much more expensive. If that sounds interesting, I could get the name of the company for you.

Semihandmade is one company that does cool fronts for IKEA boxes. Basic fronts are at same price-point as IKEA.

We flipped a house last year that had IKEA cabinets that were 11 years old and still looked good. We repainted fronts and boxes and they looked even better.

As was said above, don't use IKEA plumbing, or countertops in my opinion. Danno we spec'ed stone in our flip last year - I think you are on the FR, let me know if you need a rec on a fabricator.

[::: :::]

Wonder what you all think of this website: newavenuehomes.com. I am looking at it now for a remodel and it looks like a good fit for me (I trust no one - especially in markets with massive information asymmetries like construction).

wow, what an unnecessary intermediary!

just call an architect, home designer, or design/build pro and check their references
pick the one that is universally loved by a bunch of people who had projects like yours
then follow their recommendations and work with them towards a successful project
they will guide you to competent GC's

or

if you have a lead on a great GC, ask which design pros they work with to develop successful projects

[Danno]

Semihandmade is one company that does cool fronts for IKEA boxes. Basic fronts are at same price-point as IKEA.

We flipped a house last year that had IKEA cabinets that were 11 years old and still looked good. We repainted fronts and boxes and they looked even better.

As was said above, don't use IKEA plumbing, or countertops in my opinion. Danno we spec'ed stone in our flip last year - I think you are on the FR, let me know if you need a rec on a fabricator.

Yes, please! We're on a tight budget for getting this all done, so if your recommendation is for someone high-end it probably won't work, but always glad to have a referral.

I have heard the plumbing thing from a few folks. Ikea's countertop pricing looks pretty good, but admittedly we haven't gotten to the counters part of the project yet. We have our basic design down as in we know where everything is going to be when the wall comes down (eg island, fridge, sink, etc), but we haven't mapped out any of the specifics.

[fastfred]

don't buy ikea cabinets don't buy counter tops at ikea either, find out how much it costs to assemble everything and add that too your cabinet cost

goto this place in denver: home clearance center the quality of the cabinets is off the charts and the price is great

[fastfred]

(I trust no one - especially in markets with massive information asymmetries like construction).

explain what you just said there in terms an idiot can understand

thanks

[Foggy_Goggles]

^^^What he means is that in the construction industry, there is any an amazing opportunity for [designers/architects/generals/subs/suppliers/inspectors] to blow smoke up your ass and take the customers money without them even knowing it. Honestly, the customers that are posturing and come of like they know everything [watch too much HGTV] are usually the ones that get fucked the hardest.

The reason for this is two fold. One, they are too pompous to realize that they don't know what they are talking about and can only imagine that they make the best of decisions. Two, their arrogance is so annoying that nobody feels bad about taking there money.

Trust is earned. I don't work for people that don't trust me or people I don't trust. Part of my job is to develop trust. Anytime you deal with someone in the construction industry, ask them how they make money. If they are hesitant to explain it too you, you are probably getting rolled.

Take electricians for example, on a T&M job they'll make their hourly obviously. But how much are they marking up there materials? Are they charging you $50 for a remodel can that you can get from HD for $20.

It's not wrong to make a markup on materials but, in my opinion, not disclosing it and risking being called out on it erodes trust. On the other hand, someone wants a fixed price bid for an undefined scope of work...fuckem'. Take every penny they got.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I can't speak too much regarding Ikea cabs other than to say budget for building the boxes if they are flat pack.

I'm 99% sure I've given cabinet advice in this thread somewhere else. Random thoughts:

a. For those on a budget, focus on door and draw fronts. If anyone comes over to your house, looks in your cabs and says, "I can't believe you don't have dove tail draws and full plywood boxes" tell them to get fucked, leave and find new friends.

b. Good cabinet suppliers include site visit and design in their price.

c. In terms of livability, things like roll out trays, full extension slides, soft close, full height pantries, refrigerator panels etc. do make a difference. Weather they are "worth it" is personal opinion.

d. Cabinets are not "cost plus" pricing. As frustrating as it is, you have to accept it. There is no reason that full overlay doors cost more than standard overlay but they do.

e. When you shop cabinets, be clear with the sales person that you are "price shopping cabinets". Find out from your wife what features are non-negotiable. Find cabinet lines that have these features. Get a price for say a SB30, DB18 and a full height pantry with roll-outs. Do this at a handle of places to get relative value.

f. Don't put the micro over the range. Get a hood and put the micro on a shelf. So much of a better look.

g. Don't let your cabinet supplier provide the install. They'll just get some hack subs that get $25 a box. The install will suck.

I hope your interior finishes are acceptable to you. Ask you tile guy what warranty he is gonna provide for cracked tiles, poorly bonded thinset and the waterproofing on the shower.

i'm not a city contractor but the way in have been explained to me is that the the best tradesman (trim carpenters, tile installers, etc.) are specialists, keep a full schedule and make bank. The best money I've ever made (in the trades) is as a subcontract cabinet installer and trim carpenter with two other guys working for me. The challenge is that there is not enough of that work in this honky tonk county to specialize in that.

[Pegleg]

f. Don't put the micro over the range. Get a hood and put the micro on a shelf. So much of a better look.

Not just a better look, much better functionality. The vent fans in microwaves are pitifully weak and the microwave doesn't have the coverage of a hood to suck up smoke, so you basically can't cook anything that generates any smoke without setting off fire alarms. That means that you can't do a good sear on a steak in a cast iron pan, roast a butterflied chicken at 500 degrees, stir fry at super high heat, etc. Trust me, I speak from experience - if I could change one thing about my kitchen, it would be to get rid of the microwave and put a real hood over my cooktop.

[Foggy_Goggles]

In Grand County USA we don't have to vent to the exterior so I spec recirc hood kits 99% of the time. They actually work better in cold weather specially is the alternative is long vent runs.

Don't get me started on hardwired interlock smokies and CO detectors. I see so many of those beat of the ceiling with a broom and thrown out the window of the condo in the middle of the night. They can be such a nightmare to trouble shoot and the BRK ones only last about 5 years.

[Danno]

I hope your interior finishes are acceptable to you. Ask you tile guy what warranty he is gonna provide for cracked tiles, poorly bonded thinset and the waterproofing on the shower.

i'm not a city contractor but the way in have been explained to me is that the the best tradesman (trim carpenters, tile installers, etc.) are specialists, keep a full schedule and make bank. The best money I've ever made (in the trades) is as a subcontract cabinet installer and trim carpenter with two other guys working for me. The challenge is that there is not enough of that work in this honky tonk county to specialize in that.

Yes, the finishes are acceptable to us. They look great, just have some imperfections. We don't have a "tile guy", it was all done by our GC (or his employees). Which kinda goes to the second paragraph quoted, we got what we paid for. And I don't mean that in a bad way. We chose the guy who was affordable; the guy charging twice as much would have had every last detail perfect (I assume). We paid for the workmanlike job from a non-specialist, and that's what we got.

And his warranty is 3 years from install.

Don't get me started on hardwired interlock smokies and CO detectors. I see so many of those beat of the ceiling with a broom and thrown out the window of the condo in the middle of the night. They can be such a nightmare to trouble shoot and the BRK ones only last about 5 years.

we were just forced to install those because of code. Hope I'm not doing what you describe, the thought has occurred to me about what to do if a malfunction, since you can't just pull the battery.

[ski-wpk]

Yes, the finishes are acceptable to us. They look great, just have some imperfections. We don't have a "tile guy", it was all done by our GC (or his employees). Which kinda goes to the second paragraph quoted, we got what we paid for. And I don't mean that in a bad way. We chose the guy who was affordable; the guy charging twice as much would have had every last detail perfect (I assume). We paid for the workmanlike job from a non-specialist, and that's what we got.

And his warranty is 3 years from install.



we were just forced to install those because of code. Hope I'm not doing what you describe, the thought has occurred to me about what to do if a malfunction, since you can't just pull the battery.

We just put hardwired Nest Protects in our house. Pricy and don't last any longer than standard smokes but they talk flawlessly, can give you status updates on Android/IOS, and have cool LED motion activated night lights that are really convenient at night.

[ski-wpk]

Yes, please! We're on a tight budget for getting this all done, so if your recommendation is for someone high-end it probably won't work, but always glad to have a referral.

I have heard the plumbing thing from a few folks. Ikea's countertop pricing looks pretty good, but admittedly we haven't gotten to the counters part of the project yet. We have our basic design down as in we know where everything is going to be when the wall comes down (eg island, fridge, sink, etc), but we haven't mapped out any of the specifics.

Definitely not high end (the project I referenced). We did simple Black Pearl granite for a big kitchen. $2500 installed with Stone City in Denver. They were a bit sketchy but price was right and they fabbed and installed in a couple days.

We've also used Moros Fabrication in Boulder. Big selection of remnants that can save you big over picking slabs at the stone warehouses off I70 near the airport.

[Danno]

Definitely not high end (the project I referenced). We did simple Black Pearl granite for a big kitchen. $2500 installed with Stone City in Denver. They were a bit sketchy but price was right and they fabbed and installed in a couple days.

We've also used Moros Fabrication in Boulder. Big selection of remnants that can save you big over picking slabs at the stone warehouses off I70 near the airport.

Thanks!

[old goat]

2 random remodel thoughts

I hate particle board cabinets. That said, our house came with cheap particle board kitchen cabinets circa 1976. I refaced the based with solid cherry and replaced all the shelves with drawers. (I replaced the wall cabinets with plywood--less work than refacing.) Despite major flooding from a broken pipe and other more minor flooding, the base cabinets are fine, although the particle board on the floor was rotted and had to be ripped out. Still, for new cabinets I would go with plywood in a house I planned to stay in, just because.

Any time you have a wall open, take pictures. You never know when you might need to know where a pipe, wire, duct, or blocking is.

[ski-wpk]

x2 on taking pics of open walls. I have probably 300 photos of our current house pre-drywall. Hugely helpful.