OFFICIAL I70 BITCH THREAD....

[Flyoverland Captive]

Same day, different angle?

[montanaskier]

I have a wonderful little bridge for sale. Interested?

Edit: and, it's pretty bad photoshop. You're easily deceived.

Except that I was there....but yeah you're right.

[Lindahl]

Colorado the butthurt state! Some of you front rangers are rediculous. No more weekend pow pow for you. Some people skied powder all weekend, some people sat in traffic. What's the secret?

Not Denver...

[The SnowShow]

Still pushing that huh? Find a few 2000 acre, northerly facing slopes outside of protected areas, with a quality snowpack, for development of these "couple of good resorts". I'm interested. Sending volumes of cars up the Cache sounds interesting

Interestingly enough, I asked in another thread why Seattle doesn't have the I70 problem. The answer: their ski areas are all up different roads.

Weren't the Colorado resorts originally all developed on protected national forest? There must be a process that could occur so a few more resorts could be created. I know it's not easy, but something long term and sustainable has to be done. I70 is broken beyond fixing, unless 300,000 leave the Front Range.

I heard there was a group looking to develop a large area on the NW side of Pikes years back. The terrain is apparently damn good too.

[Soups]

Except that I was there....but yeah you're right.

But Benny is everywhere

[hatchgreenchile]

Interestingly enough, I asked in another thread why Seattle doesn't have the I70 problem. The answer: their ski areas are all up different roads.

Weren't the Colorado resorts originally all developed on protected national forest? There must be a process that could occur so a few more resorts could be created. I know it's not easy, but something long term and sustainable has to be done. I70 is broken beyond fixing, unless 300,000 leave the Front Range.

I heard there was a group looking to develop a large area on the NW side of Pikes years back. The terrain is apparently damn good too.

Microclimates and topography dictate where quality ski destinations are built, not roadways. Take a drive up 285 7 and 36 in midwinter and find some gems waiting for ski lifts. I'm sure the developers would be very interested. This can't be some Berthoud Pass ski area clone. You need a constant pitch, 300" of snow, northerly aspect, 1500' vert and plenty of space for base development. Good luck.

There's a reason that CO ski resorts are built where they are, just like there's a reason that most UT lifts are in a tiny 10 x 10 mile cluster, and most CA lifts are along the Sierra Crest, etc. etc.

Pikes already has an abandoned ski area. No snow. Cameron Pass had a proposed ski area. Fought tooth and nail for years. You will not get wilderness boundaries lifted, and even if you did, the most ideal terrain would be right up I70 in the Gore Range. Wanna go for standard forest service land?There will be suddenly be a sizable lynx population on X mountain the moment a ski area is proposed. 10 years of planning minimum.

[GPP33]

Interestingly enough, I asked in another thread why Seattle doesn't have the I70 problem. The answer: their ski areas are all up different roads.

Weren't the Colorado resorts originally all developed on protected national forest? There must be a process that could occur so a few more resorts could be created. I know it's not easy, but something long term and sustainable has to be done. I70 is broken beyond fixing, unless 300,000 leave the Front Range.

I heard there was a group looking to develop a large area on the NW side of Pikes years back. The terrain is apparently damn good too.

Snow east of the divide is too unpredictable due to wind. You need to be able to get west efficiently. I-70 is the only option. Lots of great hills left to build an area on, just not easy to access. Though I've always thought the Ark Valley could handle one or two more like Monarch and help lighten the load on I-70 at least a little. One by St Elmo and another up Cottonwood or Independence. They would probably get too much opposition from self proclaimed "environmentalists" though.

ETA: Utah is the same, no more than two ski areas up any given canyon (unless you count park city as having 3).

[Benny Profane]

You guys are nuts. Nobody is building a new ski hill in America. Ain't happening.

[Rontele]

You guys are nuts. Nobody is building a new ski hill in America. Ain't happening.

I never thought this day would come, but I actually agree with Benny.

[Name Redacted]

If I still lived in Denver, and could only ski weekends, I would probably find another hobby.

ETA: or buy a condo in the hills, and rent/buy in the city. Head up Friday night, back Monday am. That's pretty much what we did when we were in the D and rarely had to deal with over a 2 hr commute. From what I hear, it sounds like right now it would be cheaper to own up here than in the city. Maybe not a house, but a 2br condo.

[Benny Profane]

I was talking to a property manager who told me there is a big change happening up here. The people buying condos aren't renting them, therefore shrinking the already bad rental market (or good, if you're a slumlord). Probably a lot of Denver people just buying a bed to avoid traffic.

[Danno]

You guys are nuts. Nobody is building a new ski hill in America. Ain't happening.

yeah but we could Photoshop one.

[ColMan]

If I still lived in Denver, and could only ski weekends, I would probably find another hobby.

ETA: or buy a condo in the hills, and rent/buy in the city. Head up Friday night, back Monday am. That's pretty much what we did when we were in the D and rarely had to deal with over a 2 hr commute. From what I hear, it sounds like right now it would be cheaper to own up here than in the city. Maybe not a house, but a 2br condo.

Yeah, the Friday-Monday deal seems to be the only way to make weekend skiing work these days. Living west of the city (Golden, Morrison, etc.) also really helps to avoid any city traffic on the Monday morning return. We've been talking about doing the inverse (wife and I both telecommute) but will probably wait until I70 becomes a shitshow on the weekdays as well (5 years?).

[summit]

I was talking to a property manager who told me there is a big change happening up here. The people buying condos aren't renting them, therefore shrinking the already bad rental market (or good, if you're a slumlord). Probably a lot of Denver people just buying a bed to avoid traffic.

They are renting them... on airbnb

[Kevo]

Isn't Vail resorts housing their employees 2 to a bedbug infested room because of the housing shortage? Those poor bastards move out here for the dream of skiing and end up living in worse conditions than a Calcutta slum making $9 an hour. They need to find a better dream.


...and on that note, so do most of us front range weekend warriors too.

[FatChance]

I'll say it again...someone needs to develop a couple of other good resorts off the I70 corridor. NW side of Pikes. Cameron Pass area. Somewhere to spread out the masses. 1 route is never going to get better.

No, all they have to do is to get the I70 ski areas to have a lottery system to allow very limited daily reservations, just like a golf course. No more unlimited number of skiers per day. It is the only option that has a chance of working to mitigate the overcrowding. There is no place to put environmentally friendly new ski areas large enough to matter and no way I70 capacity will ever be effectively upgraded. Of course, in the real world, no option will ever be done and the current system will just get worse until it gets REALLY bad.

Oh, a half hour up to Purg yesterday, 12+" new, no lift lines, no traffic.

[hatchgreenchile]

You got to think that eventually, one of the hills close to Den (maybe Copper?) will just say "enough is enough" and buck the trend. Go for high seasons pass cost, moderate lift ticket price , and low on hill amenities and lodging rates.

Try to make $1200 a season off a single pass holder, not three. Less staffing requirements and a much more positive guest experience.

[Kevo]

Most resorts have historically lost money on lift tickets and made it up with real estate development. If people stop buying houses and condos in Vail because of the crowds it MAY have an affect on ticket prices getting increased to reduce the crowds. I don't really see it happening anytime soon though. Even if VR and WP/Copper sold 1/3 as many season passes I-70 would still suck.

[FatChance]

Even if VR and WP/Copper sold 1/3 as many season passes I-70 would still suck.

Reducing the number of season passes sold does nothing. Reducing the number of day passes sold (limit skiing to pass holders) might do something or limiting skiing to people staying at the resort overnight or simply limiting the number of skiers allowed on the mountain per day (reservation system) would actually do something to reduce the problem. Naturally, each of those options will increase the cost of skiing, but that Genie is long out of the bottle for anyone who wants the situation to improve.

Of course, no one knows to what degree I70 would still suck, but reducing the allowed number of actual skiers per day remains the only workable option that has any realistic chance of reducing ski traffic/crowding at least a little bit any time in the foreseeable future. All it needs to happen tomorrow is for the Bumbler-in-Chief to do yet another illegal executive order directing the Forest Service to change the terms of the ski area leases.

Just trying to think outside of the box because additional ski areas or increased capacity on I70 aren't going to happen in my lifetime. Of course, this is one of the main reasons I moved away from the front range 20 years ago because you are all doomed.

[summit]

Does North Twin Cone Peak by Grant get enough snow?

Most resorts have historically lost money on lift tickets and made it up with real estate development. If people stop buying houses and condos in Vail because of the crowds it MAY have an affect on ticket prices getting increased to reduce the crowds.

This used to be the case... in 2001 when Clifford published Downhill Slide.

But in the following 15 years, exactly how much RE development owned by Vail has occurred in CO? We are out of developable base areas.
How much RE development did the Peak 6 expansion make? Heck, how much did Blue Sky Basin create?

Loveland is still around.

The only one following that old trope is that Red McCoombs in the Pillage at Wolf Creek... but wait... Wolf Creek doesn't want it!

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Time to move out of durango!

"Durango’s population growth places it at 20th among 536 micropolitan areas tracked by the Census Bureau, he said. Micropolitan areas have one urban cluster of 10,000 to 50,000 residents, plus adjacent territory with strong economic ties to the core city.

Durango seems to be one of the winners of modern migration patterns. Overall, Americans are leaving rural areas for major cities. Some small towns with educated populaces and other amenities are attracting the same movement."

http://www.durangoherald.com/article...-strong-growth

Estimated to break 100k by 2035.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

A high alpine resort outside of alma in the mosquitos would be awesome, I bet that place would be empty most of the time.

[Name Redacted]

OR front range skiers start altering their work and school schedules to allow for weekday skiing. Weekends are the problem, weekdays are pretty dead. I skied Copper all day today without touching a line, even with all the SIA nerds out and about. Of course Copper is somewhat of a safe haven from the "Epic" crowds the last few years.

[doebedoe]

Spent a week not doing the I70 shitshow really makes you realize what a shitshow it is.

At the very least it'd be helpful if resorts got together and seriously incentive carpooling. Free, well-located carpool only lots for 3 or more, or 4 or more, a free beer voucher, etc. CDOT puts up a few signs in (and expands) Dino lots for organizing rides to various resorts. Make the shitty toll lane free for HOV.

It won't fix the problem. But it would mean a few less cars on I70 (hopefully carpoolers choose the "good car"), only one person who has to stay sober, and less parking needs for the resorts.

Carpooling at Jackson was easy to organize from Stilson. Plus both days we got/gave rides to some grade-A ski bunnies.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Spent a week not doing the I70 shitshow really makes you realize what a shitshow it is.

At the very least it'd be helpful if resorts got together and seriously incentive carpooling. Free, well-located carpool only lots for 3 or more, or 4 or more, a free beer voucher, etc. CDOT puts up a few signs in (and expands) Dino lots for organizing rides to various resorts. Make the shitty toll lane free for HOV.

It won't fix the problem. But it would mean a few less cars on I70 (hopefully carpoolers choose the "good car"), only one person who has to stay sober, and less parking needs for the resorts.

Carpooling at Jackson was easy to organize from Stilson. Plus both days we got/gave rides to some grade-A ski bunnies.

CDOT handing out free beer vouchers is the best idea I've heard in a while.