GUNS!!!!!!!!

[krp8128]

Finally got around to getting the RPR (.308) setup. Vortex PST 6-24x50 FFP on a YHM riser & rings. Love the concept and execution of the gun. Gonna go dial it in @ 250yd at my club on Friday as there really isn't anything longer than that unless you know someone with private land or drive 3+ hours to the nearest 500yd+ range.

How long does it take to get up this way?

Range goes out to 600 yds (as advertised, bring a range finder!)

[BS720]

^^Siiiiiiick. Looking at an RPR. One of my acquaintances is going to ask Ruger about doing a few in .300 WM. Hopefully that works out.

What is you budget for the AWT? Looks like an awesome project, and I'm jealous.

[TAFKALVS]

^^Siiiiiiick. Looking at an RPR. One of my acquaintances is going to ask Ruger about doing a few in .300 WM. Hopefully that works out.

I think that would require a substantial redesign, wouldn't it? 300 wm class of cartridges is quite a big longer than .308 parent rounds. Going to need a longer action and mag well for sure. Not to mention changes in the bolt face size potentially.

(Not to say I wouldn't be first in line for one... )

[gretch6364]

Any one have any experience with the Kimber Montana? Need a new elk rifle and looking for something super light not over $1500. At 5lbs 10oz in 30-06....not sure I can do much better in that price range, but fully open to options

[TAFKALVS]

Any one have any experience with the Kimber Montana? Need a new elk rifle and looking for something super light not over $1500. At 5lbs 10oz in 30-06....not sure I can do much better in that price range, but fully open to options

Tikka T3 SuperLight Stainless.... 1/3 the price, just as good or better, IMO.

Just be ready for a gun like this to kick like a very angry mule.

[2FUNKY]

Any one have any experience with the Kimber Montana? Need a new elk rifle and looking for something super light not over $1500. At 5lbs 10oz in 30-06....not sure I can do much better in that price range, but fully open to options

Why do you want such a light rifle? Sheep hunting in AK, I get it. Elk in Montana, or wherever,not so much. Light guns kick like fuck all and are much harder to shoot with accuracy.

[jgb@etree]

How long does it take to get up this way?

Range goes out to 600 yds (as advertised, bring a range finder!)

Little over 2.5, so Bennington would probably be the closest 500+, although I can get to Albany (Forbes Club) in 3hours flat, and they have a 1000yd range.

[jgb@etree]

^^Siiiiiiick. Looking at an RPR. One of my acquaintances is going to ask Ruger about doing a few in .300 WM. Hopefully that works out.

What is you budget for the AWT? Looks like an awesome project, and I'm jealous.

Thanks. I try not to set budgets for projects, otherwise I'll get upset. In reality, I'll probably be into it for about $2500, excluding optics.

I think that would require a substantial redesign, wouldn't it? 300 wm class of cartridges is quite a big longer than .308 parent rounds. Going to need a longer action and mag well for sure. Not to mention changes in the bolt face size potentially.

(Not to say I wouldn't be first in line for one... )

.300 Win Mag is a long action that uses a .540 bolt face. .308 (or .243) is a short action with a .470 bolt face. In theory, any of these calibers would work with a barrel swap:

Short actions with a bolt face .Dia of .470 +/-
225 Winchester, 22/250 Remingtion, 6mm Norma BR, 243 Win, 250 Savage, 260 Rem, 6.5/284 Norma, 7/08 Rem, 284 win, 300 Savage, 308 Win, 338 Federal, 35 Rem, and the 358 Winchester.

You'll notice that all 3 calibers that the RPR come in (243, 6.5 Creedmore, .308) are short action rounds that use the same bolt.

If it were a long action (which it is not) you could also run these calibers on the same bolt:

Long actions with a bolt face .DIA of .470 +/-
220 Swift, 6mm Rem, 240 Weatherby Mag, 257 Roberts, 25-06 Rem, 6.5x55 Swedish, 270 Win, 7x57 Mauser, 7x64 Brenneke, 280 Rem, 30/06 Springfield, 8mm Mauser, 338/06 A Square, and the 35 Whelen.

[TAFKALVS]

Why do you want such a light rifle? Sheep hunting in AK, I get it. Elk in Montana, or wherever,not so much. Light guns kick like fuck all and are much harder to shoot with accuracy.

I would at the very least consider a little less harsh caliber, such as 7mm-08 in a gun that lightweight. Personally my rule of thumb is the following: 6-7lbs with scope in short action calibers (.308, .243, 7mm-08), 8-9lbs in medium calibers (30.06, 7mm SUAM, etc) and 11+ lbs in a true magnum (.300wm, 7mm Mag, .338wm).

I'd just buy a nice Savage or Tikka with a standard barrel profile and buy an aftermarket laminate or fiberglass stock with a bedded action. Throw a decent vortex/leupold scope on it and call it good.

But maybe you have a quiver of heavier guns and want something light for long jaunts?

[gretch6364]

Why do you want such a light rifle? Sheep hunting in AK, I get it. Elk in Montana, or wherever,not so much. Light guns kick like fuck all and are much harder to shoot with accuracy.

A guns weight has nothing to do with accuracy...assuming the shooter can do his job. Every ounce counts when you are a working stiff sitting at a desk 40 hours a week and hiking many miles into the backcountry chasing elk. You spend hundreds more for a lighter sleeping bag that saves you 2 or 3 ounces...you can shave a pound with a good light weight rifle.

I have been shooting big game rifles much bigger then an 06 for many years...I can handle the kick for a couple shots a year. Not like I am using it as a every week range gun.

[gretch6364]

I would at the very least consider a little less harsh caliber, such as 7mm-08 in a gun that lightweight. Personally my rule of thumb is the following: 6-7lbs with scope in short action calibers (.308, .243, 7mm-08), 8-9lbs in medium calibers (30.06, 7mm SUAM, etc) and 11+ lbs in a true magnum (.300wm, 7mm Mag, .338wm).

I'd just buy a nice Savage or Tikka with a standard barrel profile and buy an aftermarket laminate or fiberglass stock with a bedded action. Throw a decent vortex/leupold scope on it and call it good.

But maybe you have a quiver of heavier guns and want something light for long jaunts?

Yes, I do have heavier guns and 30.06 is the lightest load I am comfortable with for elk. This is a gun for days doing over 5 miles at 10K and multi days with a pack on my back.

[TAFKALVS]

Yes, I do have heavier guns and 30.06 is the lightest load I am comfortable with for elk. This is a gun for days doing over 5 miles at 10K and multi days with a pack on my back.

A guns weight has nothing to do with accuracy...assuming the shooter can do his job. Every ounce counts when you are a working stiff sitting at a desk 40 hours a week and hiking many miles into the backcountry chasing elk. You spend hundreds more for a lighter sleeping bag that saves you 2 or 3 ounces...you can shave a pound with a good light weight rifle.

I have been shooting big game rifles much bigger then an 06 for many years...I can handle the kick for a couple shots a year. Not like I am using it as a every week range gun.

In that case, check out the Tikka T3 SuperLight. I have the standard weight gun in .243 and it is a fantastic gun. Basically a Sako with slightly less finish details. Still light years ahead of most other guns in its price range in terms of fit and finish.

[MTslackcountry]

I have a tikka t3 lite 300 win mag, glass bedded in a bell and Carlson medalist topped with a vortex viper HS 4-16x50mm. Gun weighs in right at 8lbs with scope. I shoot over 200 rounds a year thru it at our local 600 yard range and it doesn't kick that bad at all. If you put a limbsaver recoil pad on the factory stock your good to go. If you already have a 30-06 why not step up to a Magnum? Way more knockdown power for longer shots.

For $1500 you could have a tikka stainless and a manners or mccmillon stock. My gun is 1/2 moa with factory hornady sst.

[Conundrum]

My go to is a T3 Lite Stainless 7 mag with a limbsaver and muzzle brake. I have the same rifle in .243 without the limbsaver and brake and I'd say the 7 mag is maybe a touch heavier on recoil but not much. Before the brake, I was getting a little flinchy and now I can shoot as much as I want, as calm as I want. I have a Bushnell Elite 4200 on it and I'm not sure what it weighs total but I'm guessing under 8 lbs with a sling.

My buddy wanted to borrow it for an elk hunt so I told him we had to go shoot it together before he could hunt with it. My buddy rarely shoots rifles and his first three shots at 100 yds were sub MOA an inch above center target prone with a backpack as a rest. It's a pretty accurate rifle out of the box in the right hands.

[Conundrum]

A guns weight has nothing to do with accuracy...assuming the shooter can do his job.

It can for a shooter without enough experience to realize they are flinching. Not every shooter can diagnose accuracy issues and being consistent. If you don't mind the noise, put a brake on a light rifle and it can do wonders. Did for me.

[gretch6364]

I have a tikka t3 lite 300 win mag, glass bedded in a bell and Carlson medalist topped with a vortex viper HS 4-16x50mm. Gun weighs in right at 8lbs with scope. I shoot over 200 rounds a year thru it at our local 600 yard range and it doesn't kick that bad at all. If you put a limbsaver recoil pad on the factory stock your good to go. If you already have a 30-06 why not step up to a Magnum? Way more knockdown power for longer shots.

For $1500 you could have a tikka stainless and a manners or mccmillon stock. My gun is 1/2 moa with factory hornady sst.

The purpose of going with a 30-06 is purely to save weight. Same gun in 300 WSM is 9 ounces heavier...that is a big deal on a BC hunt. I don't already have a 30-06 actually...I have magnums...I tired of carrying a heavy gun on elk hunts.

Is everyone suggesting the Tikka because of the price point? What is the weight on the 30-06 Tikka? Is it being suggested purely because of a price point, or because there is something wrong with the Kimber? The goal here is to shave weight...every ounce counts. Obviously, I can't go with a round without enough knockdown power and that is why I am not going to 308...I know, I know...lots of elk are killed with a 308...just not for me with this particular purchase.

[GeezerSteve]

Is everyone suggesting the Tikka because of the price point? What is the weight on the 30-06 Tikka?

My Tikka T3 weighs 6 lbs. 4 oz. Mine is chambered .270, used only as a deer rifle (so far). <7-1/2 lbs. with Weaver 4x38 fixed scope and sling. T3s Lites are popular because of price point, low weight and accuracy. I use it for deer, never hunted elk.

Apologies if I'm coming into the elk round discussion late. If and when I hunt elk I'll use a 140 or 150 .270 grain round cuz that's what I've got. Elk round discussion are kinda like Ford/Chevy/Dodge high school fistfights. Here is Chuck Hawks' take:

Bullet placement is the most important factor in killing power. (Memorize that sentence!) I suspect that is why we hear such divergent views about many of the cartridges commonly used for elk hunting. The .270 Winchester would be a good example of this. Some hunters report that the .270 is a nearly ideal elk cartridge. Others consider it adequate, but not ideal. Still others consider the .270 worthless for elk hunting and recommend nothing less than a .300 Magnum as the absolute minimum elk cartridge.

* * *

Based on a fair amount of research, I regard the .270 as an adequate elk cartridge. If a hunter puts a decent 140-150 grain .277" bullet into a vital spot, the result is a dead elk. However, the .270 will not bowl over even a relaxed elk. Neither, for that matter, will most other calibers. An elk is a big animal!

A lot of hunters are not particularly good shots and a great many shooters flinch regularly with high intensity calibers like the .270 Winchester. Consequently, they think they placed the shot well, when actually they only wounded the animal. A .270 bullet will not bag an elk if it does not hit in an immediately vital spot. The elk may die later, but by that time it will probably be far away. These hunters are very apt to blame the rifle for their bad shooting.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/elk_cartridges.htm

[Conundrum]

I recommended the Tikka because it's light, durable, very accurate out of the box, it's a very smooth Sako action, and is a quarter to a third of the cost of a Sako or Kimber. I've never shot a Kimber rifle and I bet is really nice but a Tikka with a highend optic is still going to cost a lot less than a Kimber. I weighed my T3 7 mag with three rounds in the magazine and it's just over 7.5 lbs. I weighed the wood stock pre 64 model 70 30-06 I used to hunt with prior to the T3 and that came in at 11 lbs with a VX-II on it. The weight difference alone makes room for a spotting scope or a tent if I wanted to carry those. I've got to think a T3 30-06 has to be close in weight to my 7 mag.

As far as caliber, I have a friend who only shoots a .270 and has a very impression portfolio of elk and muley kills. The elk mount in his barn is pushing 390 and it was shot with a .270. I think his biggest muley is around 190-200. He gets something down every year. Tough to argue with that guy on which rifle is the best because his answer is always "my rifle" and no one in the room has any debatable points on him.

[jgb@etree]

Heh. 50+ year later the Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor schools of thought are still at odds.... Big/heavy vs light/fast.

[MTslackcountry]

The purpose of going with a 30-06 is purely to save weight. Same gun in 300 WSM is 9 ounces heavier...that is a big deal on a BC hunt. I don't already have a 30-06 actually...I have magnums...I tired of carrying a heavy gun on elk hunts.

Is everyone suggesting the Tikka because of the price point? What is the weight on the 30-06 Tikka? Is it being suggested purely because of a price point, or because there is something wrong with the Kimber? The goal here is to shave weight...every ounce counts. Obviously, I can't go with a round without enough knockdown power and that is why I am not going to 308...I know, I know...lots of elk are killed with a 308...just not for me with this particular purchase.

The kimbers are nice guns for sure. My point is if you get the tikka ultra light and drop it in a light weight manners or mccmillin stock and have it glass bedded by your local gun smith there is a very good chance you will have a rifle more accurate than the kimber and be the same price. The ultra light stocks are 4 to 6oz lighter than the factory tikka. I think the tikka ultra light is 6 oz lighter than the standard tikka T3 lite. The manners and mccmillan stocks are very nice. I prefer the magnum for elk and would rather spend my money on a nice stock and really good optics then the gun itself (tikka's price point allows this).

[TNKen]

I recommended the Tikka because it's light, durable, very accurate out of the box, it's a very smooth Sako action, and is a quarter to a third of the cost of a Sako or Kimber. I've never shot a Kimber rifle and I bet is really nice but a Tikka with a highend optic is still going to cost a lot less than a Kimber. I weighed my T3 7 mag with three rounds in the magazine and it's just over 7.5 lbs. I weighed the wood stock pre 64 model 70 30-06 I used to hunt with prior to the T3 and that came in at 11 lbs with a VX-II on it. The weight difference alone makes room for a spotting scope or a tent if I wanted to carry those. I've got to think a T3 30-06 has to be close in weight to my 7 mag.

As far as caliber, I have a friend who only shoots a .270 and has a very impression portfolio of elk and muley kills. The elk mount in his barn is pushing 390 and it was shot with a .270. I think his biggest muley is around 190-200. He gets something down every year. Tough to argue with that guy on which rifle is the best because his answer is always "my rifle" and no one in the room has any debatable points on him.

Lot of energy behind the .270 and .25-'06 since they are based on a .30-'06.

[gretch6364]

Yeah...didn't want to start that argument...haha. I certainly think you can can an elk either way. I carried a 7mm RUM for a while which is at the extreme end of fast and light. I think the 30-06 has a couple things going for it that the magnums don't. First, the actions are lighter making for lighter rifles, second I don't handload and there are a ton of options out there for the 30-06 and third if for some terrible reason I am stuck in the middle of no where and forgot my ammo, there is a darn good chance I could find some 30-06 ammo and salvage the hunt.

I agree the magnums are better, but for me, the things listed above are worth serious consideration. Besides, is there a round that has taken more big game in the US then the 30-06? Maybe a 308, but 06 has been proven for a hundred years and isn't going anywhere. Its a good round...and this is from a prior magnum guy that has learned his lesson after dragging heavy rifles all over the place.

Conundrum....there is pretty much no way I am as good a shot as your buddy...so I need the extra punch!

Is the difference between the T3 Lite and the Ultralight simply the stock? And if so, is it better to just get the lite and put a lighter better stock on it and end up lighter the superlite with a more solid bedding?

[zeroforhire]

Just to throw out another option for budget minded individuals... Check out the Thompson center venture rifles. Mine in 30-06 with steel scope rings and a bushnell scope tips the scales at 8 lbs 4 oz.
I realize that isn't super light, but at roughly $340 new after rebate... That's a lot of money left over for ammo and camo.

[MTslackcountry]

The ultra lite has a fluted barrel, not sure what else. The factory stock shot well for me, I just wanted it bedded better and wanted a more custom look to the gun. If I could do it over I would spend the money and get the Manners or McMillan over the bell and Carlson. If you want to shed a bunch of weight check out stone glacier packs made in Bozeman. I have the sky 5100 and it shaved 4 lbs off my old pack. I have packed 3 elk and 2 antlope out with it this year and its amazing. I am a backpack hunter myself. Last year I shot a 7x6 bull 6 miles deep, me and a buddy got it out on our backs. I agree every ounce counts. My BC partner was so critical of weight on our muley hunt he wouldn't even bring toilet paper LMAO. Guys fuckin rugged LOL

[Conundrum]

Yes, I think the superlite's fluted barrel is the difference. Exo-gear packs are also very light. I have an Eberlestock and my buddy carries the Exo and it's probably a couple pounds lighter in the pack and pretty well though out but you would have to buy a scabbard if you wanted one on the pack. My Eberlestock has that built it. Bums me out out on bow hunts and I love it on rifle hunts. I'll never go without TP...I leave a lot of trail poops on hunt trips.