Avalanche Foglietta - video and self-analysis

[LeeLau]

Definitely worth the watch and read

http://www.henrysavalanchetalk.com/a...foy-tarentaise

[MagnificentUnicorn]

That didn't really look like a safe spot for those first 4 to bunch up. I read the text first and was expecting a more obvious "island of safety".

I'm curious why they skied such a short pitch and regrouped there. Wouldn't it make more sense to ski the whole thing one at a time? I'm not judging, I don't know what their plan was, maybe they were going to traverse farther skiers' right?

[spook]

that island of safety was a victim of climate change when sea level rose and swallowed it whole in three seconds

[srface_hoar]

I guess the shooting cracks in the traverse line from the previous 4 skiers were not an obvious clue as well

[pureantigravity]

Island of what??? Easy to be armchair QB, but that's sure no island, and no safety. That's a "We-can't-ski-and-have-sore-legs-from-100-foot-run" rest spot.

Big open slopes like that have 'slide' written all over them, esp at that time of day. It's probably steeper than the video shows == prime slide paths. They probably should not have been so shocked that it went big. Aaand ... I'd probably edit out the 'oh-fck musak' in the background too. It doesn't add anything.

They are going to sell a massive crap-load of them avy airbags in Europe. Then, we can get some real statistics from the impending mass-stupidity that is about to happen in touring.

Good thing everyone made it out. Being the jong that I am, I'd probably be there in the wash cycle too!

I'm starting to get cranky and talk like I'm an expert

[klar]

esp at that time of day.

Huh?

They are going to sell a massive crap-load of them avy airbags in Europe.

They already did and people are less than thrilled at the massive ABS recall and the Mammut valve issue so I'm not sure they really will sell that much more.

[pureantigravity]

Huh?



They already did and people are less than thrilled at the massive ABS recall and the Mammut valve issue so I'm not sure they really will sell that much more.

Well, it looks like midday from the north aspect and shadows. Perhaps the north aspect negates the midday issue (warming cycle). I'll bet the upflow is happening from the sun baked slopes below.

I'm a firm believer in getting out early, esp on big slopes like that.

And the ABS recall is going to slow sales -- Why? Has any recall, anywhere, actually slowed sales of anything?

But I'm hypothesizing, so go ahead and say what you think.

[neck beard]

Their regroup spot did not seem much from the angle of the camera, but that is all we can see. In their defense, the avalanche did seem to flow around it at first, so they may have been on some minor high ground. As the webpage says, possibly a safe-ish regroup for smaller avalanches, but not a very wide across and downslope propagating persistent weak layer like this. It is not normal for an entire mountainside to release like that with a light trigger unless you have a specific type of avalanche problem.

I guess the shooting cracks in the traverse line from the previous 4 skiers were not an obvious clue as well

Were they shooting cracks? Looked more like where skiers had dragged their uphill pole. I can't fathom anyone would continue onto a steep open slope with cracking of that nature. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt there. Not cracks.

[Bunion 2020]

From my view they looked like cracking and seemed to indicate instability.

[smitchell333]

Definitely cracks.

I would have felt very negative about skiing that slope having seen those cracks develop and would have whined for another way down, if there was one.

Reminder to find true safe spots.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Those are pole drags. Look again, they follow the traverse into the slope perfectly, aligned with each undulation.

[Rob Stokes]

Nah, not cracks in my opinion either.

[whyturn]

Recliner chair obs
Seems like a bad place to regroup and last cutter cut higher out of track.

[srface_hoar]

Look again, you can see additional cracks develop as it propagates out across the slope. They are identical to the cracks already there.

[coldandwet]

Strong winds and fresh snow the day before the slide, falling on top of a thick layer of facets. Espace Killy posted an avalanche risk of 4 and the pisteurs there were very negative about the conditions, but maybe they've much less tolerance for careless tourists than Ste Foy. These people don't seem to have a guide with them, and the guidebook I have here observes that the north face of Foglietta isn't a good place to be in uncertain snow conditions.

Seems like they didn't bother to do much research before heading out. Anyone else able to follow the google hangout thing that Henry's doing? Can't see or hear it from here, but it probably has better information about what happened.

[srface_hoar]

Those are pole drags. Look again, they follow the traverse into the slope perfectly, aligned with each undulation.

Pole drags would have to be very high on the upper crack. When it rips out it does so on the cracks

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Not that it matters, but watching in fullscreen HD you can clearly see the skier with green pants making that lower drag mark. The skier that triggers the slide goes out and it fractures perpendicular to those marks and there is no propagation toward the cameraman when the slide starts from the fall line fracture. I don't think there was a visible clue for them. That doesn't mean there weren't all sorts of other red flags and the regroup area was obviously a bad idea.

[pureantigravity]

Did they dig a pit?

Did they do anything to see if they could get a slide while they were all still at the top? Perhaps something like a ski cut, group jump on a spot, other stupid looking but possibly effective activity to get a slide to trigger?

There is a rock outcrop just below the video guy, perhaps a good place to do a drop-to-steep and see the stability.

Just think it would have turned out a lot better if they were able to test the snowpack with more than a genteel traverse ...

... but why does everybody regroup so tight? I thought the idea was to keep a good separation in order to mitigate everyone being caught in the same slide?

How steep was it? Given how video often flattens the slope visually, it probably is a good 35 degrees. Any large open slope at 35 degrees is a suspect.

[UPGRAYEDD_2505]

Pole drags. But yikes, that must have been scary just standing there with your thumb up your ass as the world comes crashing down upon you. For some reason I now have "For whom the bell tolls" stuck in my head.

Glad the injuries were not life threatening and that nobody died.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Did you notice how in the periphery, skiers' left, on the camera view that there was propagation and snow coming down? It looks like from behind where the cameraman was standing.

[splat]

Those are pole drags. Look again, they follow the traverse into the slope perfectly, aligned with each undulation.

Nah, not cracks in my opinion either.

pole drags,

What I was wondering is if that hump down in the flats is a deposition from previous slides.

Did you notice how in the periphery, skiers' left, on the camera view that there was propagation and snow coming down? It looks like from behind where the cameraman was standing.

He was in a safe spot. Camera guys learn to have a knack for picking good spots.

[dhklauer]

Not going to comment on their decision making since I wasn't there. But my video from last season may help answer some of the question you may have, and give you other views. They dropped in further down the ridge (Skiers Right 30 meters) from the slide path we skied.
When we arrived, the group before us (with a guide), set off a slide. The guide and 1 client were caught in the slide, but were both ok. I was pretty terrified to step on the face regardless of skiing the bed surface. But after watching several others ski, and clear the hang fire around the path, we decided to drop. In my video, the slide stopped on a shelf. In their video, the slide went over the rock/cliff ban to the bottom.
In my video at .55 you will see us re-group on what we considered a "safe zone" on a shelf far skiers left of the slide path below rocks. We skied 1 with 1 person on the slope at a time.
In my video at 1:01, you will see the rock face in the middle of the slope (we came down lookers right side, they skied lookers left of the rock/cliff ban). This is the same rock face that's shown at the end of their video with the breakdown of the slide. Overall it's a tricky slope that starts at about 45 degrees with many convex rollovers and trigger points. I don't think they should have been hanging out in an open bowl, and they should not have had more than 1 person on the slope at a time. But.........I wasn't part of their decision making process.

Hope this helps....
http://vimeo.com/89083793

[LeeLau]

Hope this helps....

Thanks. It does

[Arno]

Posted some of this on the Snow for the Euros thread. This is a very big open slope but navigation isn't completely straightforward- there are a few cliffs which could catch you out depending on the line you choose. I'd guess it is a sustained 30-35 degrees or so (45 sounds it but high to me but there may be steeper bits which I haven't skied.). For a slide like that, I would struggle to think of any true safe spots on the slope until you get to the bottom and out of the run-out area for a slide. But because it is so long and because of the complexity it isn't something you could sensibly do in one pitch unless everyone was very familiar with it.

So all that adds up to something to avoid if you have any doubts about snow conditions. It's a fantastic ski if conditions are right though.

Also, it is quite well away from the resort - 30-4mins skin from the top lift and it takes you down to a village which is a bus ride away from St Foy. So not somewhere that the resort patrollers would see themselves as responsible for, I don't think

Hope that helps

[pureantigravity]

Did anyone dig a pit. Group of 5 hitting a slope like that without a pit dig in cat 3 avy rating is odd. No? No ones mentioning the pit test, so just bringing it up again.

It's a dumb question - because the answer is obviously no. Along with Duh!