Four Wheel Camper

[LT]

Alright I know there's a few mags out there with these things...what are your thoughts? We're looking at taking the plunge and springing for a new one(gulp), a HAWK model for our Nissan Titan. Older one would be pretty cool but they are next to impossible to find for a deal, when paying close to retail might as well go new from the showroom.

We've never owned a camper before but are tired of waiting out shitty weather in the back of the truck bed or tent. We're looking to be able to extend our trips into the rainy season in the PNW and Rockies as well as do some Sierra East Side winter BC trips. Also having spent 4 days of rain and fog this past mule deer season in the back of the truck I've had it. It will also get used a ton during the summer obviously.

So our issues are...it's expensive($15K with most of the stuff we want and suspension adds) but also storage and maintenance. We'll need to store it someplace either outside or in a closed storage unit down in Reno or Carson City(more likely). Is it retarded to store this outside, getting baked by sun, wind etc?

Also what's the maintenance like? It will have propane stove & furnace and sink with electric pump. Would love a fridge but that's another $500...so we're debating.

We're also to the point where kids probably aren't in the too far distant future and feel like this could be the only way to maintain out current outdoor lifestyle. Sleeping in tent/back of truck = shoot me.

EDIT: Forgot to sum up what I'm asking. What's maintenance like, storage recommendations, are they worth it or over priced? Overall impressions from users. Thanks all!

[MakersTeleMark]

First thing to do is to extensively browse these forums:

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/forum/4/

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...splay.php?f=75

Also look at the Phoenix (strongly recommend - all custom builds) and All Terrain Campers as well.

You'd be surprised what you can find on Craigslist for a used one.

I'd be happy to answer any specific FWC question once you get a grip on what they are all about.

As for a fridge, I really wish I had a propane one (12v fridges suck so much power). Trust me, the icebox just won't cut it.

Overall, they are pretty maintenance free. Just keep moisture out, make sure things are sealed up, make sure you bleed the fluids when it gets cold. Mine is bolted to the bed of my truck and I see no plans of ever removing it. Easy to do so and store on a dolly with a tarp though if that is what you want to do.

[LT]

Thanks MTM, I'm currently "living" on Wander the West reading ever thread possible to try to gain more knowledge. We've been entertaining this idea for about a year now and are finally to the point where we're really ready to move into the final stages of research. Good info on the icebox, we were thinking we'd go that route and save the $$ but maybe at that point what's another $500.

Thanks.

[GeezerSteve]

I got a 2000 Hawk, loaded. I bought it used in 2004.

+1 to what MTM says. Those are great forums.

Get the Arctic liner if you plan to use it for skiing.

Get the fridge, but as MTM says, if it's a reverse osmosis design don't bother using it in 12V mode cuz it's a power suck. Also, you can really screw up the reverse osmosis gizmo if you use it on very unlevel ground, so use it in propane mode only if you're on a relatively flat site.

Maintenance has been minimal but some wear and tear is noticeable. I replaced the frig (see above) and a Fantastic Fan bubble (warrantied). The water pump died a long time ago. I don't use the water tank anyway. I resealed some leaky spots on the roof last summer with silicone.

You should cover it if stored in a sunny area. I store mine in my driveway, although it's shaded most of the day and I'm on the west side of the Cascades, so rain is more of a concern than sun. I sewed a cover for it, although I rarely use it.

Be certain to look one over before you buy to make certain it's for you. FWC's are rather primitive compared to, say, a Lance. For me, the bare bones interior is a fair trade for the <1000 lb. weight, lower COG and lower wind profile.

[LT]

Thanks Steve, I appreciate the input as well. We're planning a trip down to the showroom this coming weekend to check 'em out and get inside and make sure this is something we're stoked on.

[LT]

We went to FWC and ATC this last Saturday and looked at campers. Really tough call between the two companies they are both so similar with great products and service. We bit the bullet yesterday and ordered a new FWC Hawk model....so stoked! Build time is going to be 6-8 weeks.

Will post pics once we have her.

[rsiberell]

Greetings,

I stumbled on to your blog while looking for good photos of the Aluminum frame on my Hawk camper. (I think that's the model we have).
Anyway, some thoughts and history:
We're a skiing and camping family; wife, 2 skiing kids, and sometimes an airedale in tow. We got this camper after growing out of 2 different vans from no kids to 2. And, we moved to MT and it's nice to have the truck bed available when lucky enough to cart an entire dead elk home in one piece. Rare, but it has happened more than once! After searching w/o luck for a used camper, we ordered and purchased a Shell model for the following reasons:
We knew that all of us would grow and get bigger, especially the kids, but with beer, so did the adults.
A 6 foot (2004 Toyota Tundra) PU bed is only so big. It is what it is.
THe 'conveniences' of the fridge, stove, and heater really aren't. They are limited in their capacity:
The 3 way fridges are a joke IMO. This piece of gear alone will require the most maintenance of any of it. And they don't get cold enough for really frosty beverages, and they are simply too small (volume/ capacity). Worst of all, they eat up too much space in your camper. And, they eat fuel, either in the form of Propane or volts.
Heater: Propane heaters are a bad idea. Especially for skiers and flycasting freaks where you're almost always coming 'home' with really wet gear that needs drying out.
They don't tell you this anywhere but in chemistry class, but one of the by-products of propane gas combustion is water-vapor. That's right, you're pumping the thing you're trying to get rid of right back into your environment.
The answer (for us) came from camping w good friend Mike @ Arcteryx, who has been building small woodstoves from stainless steel cooking pots for years. With this inspiration, I crafted a stove for our campler, and mounted it permanently, adjacent to some aluminum 'rafting' dry-boxes (where we store our pots, pans and dry food). The biggest challenge for us was creating a removable/ adjustable pipe section that could be taken down when the top was put down for driving. Not a big deal, in fact we're still going back and forth between two different designs. All work well, though still working towards the easiest method. We burn kiln dried oak, that is the waste from a furniture plant nearby. They otherwise haul it to the landfill. Anything will burn, but dried oak is about as good as it gets. Never had an issue w safety, though it's easy to get the stove too hot, and you could easily get burned severley if you were not careful. The stoking requires frequent attention, but that's half the fun to maintain the temp in the camper. Drying clothes and gloves, skins, hats, boot liners? You bet. Bone dry. We have done many winter trips in the camper. Most recent was a drive from Bozeman to Bow Lake (Alberta) where our oldest daughter and i did a week trip on the Wapta Icefield. The camper w the stove made it so fun. We were sitting around brewing up and playing the guitar at night in T-shirts.
We also have a 2 burner propane stove perm. mounted on top of the dry boxes. This is nice for constant temp cooking or when cooking on top of the woodstove is not enough (more than one dish, etc.). We mounted our propane tank on the back/ exterior of the camper. Again, more interior space.
We have a small solar panel that we just stick in the S facing window when we stop, and have a battery under the bed that powers all sorts of things, lights, and can jump start the truck if we're dumb enough to leave a dome light on for a couple days. We never us the power hook up from the main battery. if you want to do this, get a second battery and wire in an isolator so you do not drain your main battery. Mount your extra battery under your truck, not in your camper (easier wiring, and more room for you. Ski boots and other toys take up a lot of room.
Then, we mounted two Yakima rack bars on the top/front of the cab, in front of the camper. This allows us to put a ski bag or two up there, which again keeps gear out of the back of the camper, and allows us to quickly pop the top in the dark when we arrive at a trailhead or resort parking lot, and just want to go to sleep. ANything on top of the camper is heavy, and typically needs to be removed before lifting the top.
I would not recommend putting a rocket box on top of the camper. Too heavy, especially when loaded, and a hassle to get to. If you're 20 years old and don't mind climbing up there, then Ok, but the 'roof' is not made to be walked around on. And the screws required to mount Yakima (or similar) racks on top of the camper will only lead to leaks. Silicone is only good for so long. They will leak. The more holes the more leaks and more maintenance. (we live w this mistake).
The foam that comes w your camper is junk. Your back will get sore sleeping in no time, and your ass will hurt sitting on the nice 'couch'. Remove the foam, and go to a GOOD custom mattress manufacturer, and get some high quality foam. It will last for years, and will provide really comfortable support. SO, you can tell I'm passionate about our camper. We've used it in all types of weather, and without question, the woodstove is the best addition. EVeryone who sees it and spends time in the camper loves this feature. Sadly, there is no commercial source for a stove like this. time to McGiver! You'll be glad you did. I also did not mention the sink and water tank, etc. The sink eats more space inside. Forget it. The water tank will freeze in winter. You need portable water to keep inside your camper. Just like tent camping.......keep your water warm.
A gray water tank is also a joke. Eats up space. If you're camping in a city, then OK, it's nice not to dump in the streets, but youre likely more thoughtful about your gray water anyway, and can deal with it the way you would tent camping. We've gotten really good and efficient at 'cooking clean' and cleaning up w minimal water. Good luck w your camper! I'm sure you'll love it regardless of how you outfit it over the years. And, of course, the above is just my opinion, however bold. Don't forget to install some additional air springs between your frame and leaf springs. Even though your 4W is not super heavy, it's still heavy enough to change the way your rig will drive. The air bags make it all happy. I've attempted to upload a couple photos, but i can't see that they 'took'. Holler, and I can email some to you more easily. "Happy Camping"!

[406Carolyn]

Hi there! What a great post. We could practically live the whole thing, the description was so perfect! We've been in the same boat of looking, looking, looking for a used 4wheel camper, hopefully shell model, and not finding it. I talked my husband into buying, "just for now," an old hardshell camper to use until he finds the one he wants. OOPS. He's spent the last three weeks fixing it up to get ready to go, but it's really not workable for the bike rack and all our gear because, for one thing, of course it has all those appliances we didn't want in the first place, and for another, it's too long. (There are other problems, but no need to elaborate.)

Your set up sounds exactly like what we have in mind. We're intrigued by the wood stove idea. We heat our home completely with wood, so we're already big fans. Would you be able to send us some pictures or other info so we could build one ourselves? I think I'll get the message if you reply here (I hope!.

And if you know anyone with a used Hawk shell model, hint, hint....

Thanks!

Greetings,

I stumbled on to your blog while looking for good photos of the Aluminum frame on my Hawk camper. (I think that's the model we have).
Anyway, some thoughts and history:
We're a skiing and camping family; wife, 2 skiing kids, and sometimes an airedale in tow. We got this camper after growing out of 2 different vans from no kids to 2. And, we moved to MT and it's nice to have the truck bed available when lucky enough to cart an entire dead elk home in one piece. Rare, but it has happened more than once! After searching w/o luck for a used camper, we ordered and purchased a Shell model for the following reasons:
We knew that all of us would grow and get bigger, especially the kids, but with beer, so did the adults.
A 6 foot (2004 Toyota Tundra) PU bed is only so big. It is what it is.
THe 'conveniences' of the fridge, stove, and heater really aren't. They are limited in their capacity:
The 3 way fridges are a joke IMO. This piece of gear alone will require the most maintenance of any of it. And they don't get cold enough for really frosty beverages, and they are simply too small (volume/ capacity). Worst of all, they eat up too much space in your camper. And, they eat fuel, either in the form of Propane or volts.
Heater: Propane heaters are a bad idea. Especially for skiers and flycasting freaks where you're almost always coming 'home' with really wet gear that needs drying out.
They don't tell you this anywhere but in chemistry class, but one of the by-products of propane gas combustion is water-vapor. That's right, you're pumping the thing you're trying to get rid of right back into your environment.
The answer (for us) came from camping w good friend Mike @ Arcteryx, who has been building small woodstoves from stainless steel cooking pots for years. With this inspiration, I crafted a stove for our campler, and mounted it permanently, adjacent to some aluminum 'rafting' dry-boxes (where we store our pots, pans and dry food). The biggest challenge for us was creating a removable/ adjustable pipe section that could be taken down when the top was put down for driving. Not a big deal, in fact we're still going back and forth between two different designs. All work well, though still working towards the easiest method. We burn kiln dried oak, that is the waste from a furniture plant nearby. They otherwise haul it to the landfill. Anything will burn, but dried oak is about as good as it gets. Never had an issue w safety, though it's easy to get the stove too hot, and you could easily get burned severley if you were not careful. The stoking requires frequent attention, but that's half the fun to maintain the temp in the camper. Drying clothes and gloves, skins, hats, boot liners? You bet. Bone dry. We have done many winter trips in the camper. Most recent was a drive from Bozeman to Bow Lake (Alberta) where our oldest daughter and i did a week trip on the Wapta Icefield. The camper w the stove made it so fun. We were sitting around brewing up and playing the guitar at night in T-shirts.
We also have a 2 burner propane stove perm. mounted on top of the dry boxes. This is nice for constant temp cooking or when cooking on top of the woodstove is not enough (more than one dish, etc.). We mounted our propane tank on the back/ exterior of the camper. Again, more interior space.
We have a small solar panel that we just stick in the S facing window when we stop, and have a battery under the bed that powers all sorts of things, lights, and can jump start the truck if we're dumb enough to leave a dome light on for a couple days. We never us the power hook up from the main battery. if you want to do this, get a second battery and wire in an isolator so you do not drain your main battery. Mount your extra battery under your truck, not in your camper (easier wiring, and more room for you. Ski boots and other toys take up a lot of room.
Then, we mounted two Yakima rack bars on the top/front of the cab, in front of the camper. This allows us to put a ski bag or two up there, which again keeps gear out of the back of the camper, and allows us to quickly pop the top in the dark when we arrive at a trailhead or resort parking lot, and just want to go to sleep. ANything on top of the camper is heavy, and typically needs to be removed before lifting the top.
I would not recommend putting a rocket box on top of the camper. Too heavy, especially when loaded, and a hassle to get to. If you're 20 years old and don't mind climbing up there, then Ok, but the 'roof' is not made to be walked around on. And the screws required to mount Yakima (or similar) racks on top of the camper will only lead to leaks. Silicone is only good for so long. They will leak. The more holes the more leaks and more maintenance. (we live w this mistake).
The foam that comes w your camper is junk. Your back will get sore sleeping in no time, and your ass will hurt sitting on the nice 'couch'. Remove the foam, and go to a GOOD custom mattress manufacturer, and get some high quality foam. It will last for years, and will provide really comfortable support. SO, you can tell I'm passionate about our camper. We've used it in all types of weather, and without question, the woodstove is the best addition. EVeryone who sees it and spends time in the camper loves this feature. Sadly, there is no commercial source for a stove like this. time to McGiver! You'll be glad you did. I also did not mention the sink and water tank, etc. The sink eats more space inside. Forget it. The water tank will freeze in winter. You need portable water to keep inside your camper. Just like tent camping.......keep your water warm.
A gray water tank is also a joke. Eats up space. If you're camping in a city, then OK, it's nice not to dump in the streets, but youre likely more thoughtful about your gray water anyway, and can deal with it the way you would tent camping. We've gotten really good and efficient at 'cooking clean' and cleaning up w minimal water. Good luck w your camper! I'm sure you'll love it regardless of how you outfit it over the years. And, of course, the above is just my opinion, however bold. Don't forget to install some additional air springs between your frame and leaf springs. Even though your 4W is not super heavy, it's still heavy enough to change the way your rig will drive. The air bags make it all happy. I've attempted to upload a couple photos, but i can't see that they 'took'. Holler, and I can email some to you more easily. "Happy Camping"!

[MakersTeleMark]

C:

I have a line on the perfect hawk shell for you. But, you must post pics of your your tits first before you get the TGR hookup. That's just the way this forum works.

Signed,
very happy 4w camper owner.

[406Carolyn]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/26865752.jpg

Happy?
Now about that Hawk shell...

[mntlion]

well played....

[harpo-the-skier]

The three way fridges use a lot of power in DC mode. The two way ac/dc fridges use much less, up to 5 amps in dc mode. I just got a two way fridge, a 120w solar panel, and an extra bat and I will see how that works. The propane fridge was hard to light, and keep lit when it was windy.

Btw, my 4 wheel camper on my Tacoma can get up the roughest TH approaches in the eastern Sierra.

[LightRanger]

Earthroamer?

[liv2ski]

Sportsmobile 4X4 with pop up tent (I want) or the diesel sprinter is more the retirement vehicle?

[shirk]

Van-based (class B) but definitely not a Sprinter, which is a cool design but too complex, unreliable and uberexpensive to fix. Sprinter was our first interest but then I researched, giving great weight to guys who manage fleets of Sprinters, who consistently advise against an individual owing one. Maybe a 86-91 waterboxer Westy with a GoWesty engine/tranny or maybe a EV camper and keep $6K in my pocket at all times for a tow and a tranny (GoWesty rebuild). I had an 82 Westy with a fuel injected in-line Golf 4 (converted diesel) for several years way back when. Great camper configuration and a good runner when I owned it but the engine developed oil pressure problems after I sold it to a bud. Fortunately we are still friends. GoWesty has done some great engine and tranny upgrades for the 86-91 waterboxers, although GoWesty conversions are far from hippy van cheap.

Anyway, sorry to wander from the subject matter of this thread. Four Wheel Campers are fantastic. For 9 years my Four Wheel Hawk plus F150 4x4 has been a super reliable and fun camping rig, especially great for ski trips. I hope to find a good home for it. If anyone in the Seattle area wants to get out front and take a look at it this week, PM me.

I suppose you know about these already.

1.8t pushing a 5mt would be nice.

[AKPogue]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tchlink:top:en

[AKPogue]

Not mine, but thought I would post it here.

[GeezerSteve]

Note for FWC owners noobs: IME, it has been best to park the camper between uses with the poptop roof in the raised position and to remove the upper mattress and store it in your garage or basement between uses. That seems to lead to less funkiness. YMMV if you live in a drier and/or sunnier place.

[puravida711]

Hey, Do you have any photos or more details you can provide on your two setups for woodburner in your FWC?
I'm looking to buy one used and do some refurbishment and this sounds like a great idea!
Cheers, Matt

[GeezerSteve]

Timely bump. A few weeks ago I replaced the front lift panel on my Hawk with a new FWC composite panel. Grunt project and it came out well. Next project is to replace the bench seat with a quasi-breakfast nook arrangement. Then I'll add a second cabin battery and a better on-the-road charging system. Then maybe install a 2-way fridge.

RV tinkering never ends.

[wendigo]

I would be interested in what you come up with for the improved charging system.
I'm about ready for a revamp of our '91 northern lite.

[GeezerSteve]

I would be interested in what you come up with for the improved charging system.

Nothing fancy. Probably a smart charger for 110V charging from home, and a timber-switched charging relay for charging via the truck alternator, but I might look into smart charger for that too. I need to do some research. I have a Honda EU1000i generator for extended camping.

I'll likely also swap out the florescent light fixtures for LEDs.

[Sparwood Dave]

Big Steve - check these out; http://www.progressivedyn.com/hotdeals.html
Remanufactured units - very high tech, very reliable (had mine 9 years) and great price. Get the Charge Wizard gizmo too.
I also have the EU 1000 for charging two 6 volt batteries and can go from flat to full in 6 hours on 240 amp hours worth of batteries with the 40 amp unit. They will tell you the max size unit for you battery load.

[cold_smoke]

Great thread, bumping for spring and my camper master plan! If anyone knows of any FWC Hawk's (~$10Kish or less!) becoming available please let me know. I've been scouring the internetz!

[GeezerSteve]

cold smoke, we are seriously thinking about selling our 2000 Hawk and getting a new one. (Anita wants the front dinette, wider bed, etc.) It's been well-used and needs some work but the price would reflect that. I just replaced the front panel with a new FWC composite panel. Definitely an upgrade but it interferes with the mattress when it's folded down so you gotta slide out the mattress or use two inflatable car camp mattresses. We would keep the jacks (if they fit the new one) and the thermal liner for the new one, so those aren't for sale. It may not be the right camper for you unless you want to get a deal and do some work on it. It's been a great camper, but we are ready to step up to a new one.