The Raven - Hoji's New Masterpiece

[sqikunst]

^^ ill just add to to the wootest comments. I am on an OG but one thing I say is that with the shapes they are producing now the rocker does not have to be that high. Thats what gets me about the wootest at 5mph i.e turtle speed in soft snow its easy and fun but go fast and they get progessivly worse. The shovels/tips just push upwards soo hard. I know dps does things a bit differently but when I see images of the spoon doing a slave that does not look fun to me having a full 1/3 of you ski if bow more out above the snow. My protests have really long low rocker and IMO that is what is money. There is just a point where high rocker is shit and I think thats way lots of people like the EHP. The shitter you are the higher the rocker should be but in i.e "expert" skis the rocker should be low and long. I hate nothing more then when I am skiing something like a rocker 2 and get up on a higher edge angle and all of a sudden edge lenth increase suddenly. I also agree with the straight sections while the protest is not completely straight its one of the straightest skis out there so when in shitty snow edge contact feels natural the higher you angle the more contact but in a gradual and smooth way not the no edge no edge and then bang hocky stop...

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I like long the radius pin tail ski when done right. The tail is there when you want it, and disappears when you don't. Best examples I've used are the Lotus 120 and the Worth Humpback and George. Lhasas are awesome skis, but the tails can wash if your fore aft balance isn't precise. If you're on, it's probably the most capable ski of the bunch.

Originally Posted by Lindahl
He could also mean pintailed, which I agree with 100%. I like and don't like a pintail. In the trees and pillows I like them, but throw me on a steep wide open uncut face and I don't like them as much. They work, but you have to put some mental effort in managing the tail and making sure it doesn't slide out in a long high speed turn (actually it feels more like the tip aggressively pulls you into a sharp turn). Add lots of oppurtunity for small air, though, and I like it again.

Completely agree with this, except the Lotus 120 is pretty close to providing the best of both worlds in untracked.

[Lindahl]

Pintailed is more complicated than tip width minus tail width. It has to do with how the tip edge rides/hooks-up in snow, compared to the tail edge. For a fixed ski length, its the ratio: (tip-waist) / (tail-waist)

Effectively, the sidecut radius in the tip versus the sidecut radius in the tail.

What I also find funny is that a pintailed ski is actually MORE predictable on firm snow and crud than it is in untracked.

In uncut snow the tugging of the tip (or washing of the tail) is almost random feeling, so you have to actively pay attention.

In crud, I've never experienced the tugging of the tip.

In firm snow, there isn't so much a tugging of the tip as there is a persistent tail wash. What makes it more predictable is the fact that its persistent (constantly washing out). All you have to do is adjust your balance forward and drive the ski and its not a problem. Try and execute a quick slash/skid and the tail washes out pretty noticably, but after some time on the ski, you get used to it and your technique gets dialed in so that becomes a non-issue also. In fact, in firm snow billygoating situations, I love it.

So, in crud, it doesn't happen. In firm snow, a smart and skilled skier can easily adjust his technique. But in uncut you can't adjust because the tugging occurs randomly since your ski is in a constant state of flux in terms of angle, depth and how it interacts with the changing snow density.

Thats my experience at least (with getting my tip tugged... heh).

[splat]

that's a pretty good description of a semi-pintail (as I described last page), Lindahl, though I'd have to disagree with your take on the uncut performance.

[Lindahl]

Its my experience with the old Billygoat which was very pintailed: 140-115-120

Love the ski for most resorts but I want something in my quiver for more alpine locations like you find in Europe.

[Sessiøn]

Its my experience with the old Billygoat which was very pintailed: 140-115-120

Love the ski for most resorts but I want something in my quiver for more alpine locations like you find in Europe.

Well....you do have a new BG now.

[JRainey]

Hey Jrainy, ignoring weight, which skis do you think best meet your shape requirements? Doesn't have to be perfect, but in that general direction of shape and performance you described.

EHP - Still available in 179 all over and cheap, best ski ever?
Renegade - Too stiff and planky to ski really crappy hard snow in a way that doesn't hurt
Hoji - Haven't skied but i'm sure it's fun, more sidecut and rocker than ehp, so probably less cool in shit snow
Kusula - Is probably rad as fuk, kinda wide for all around.
Down CD3 - Could be promising. Would like to try.
Down CD4 - Looks like a great skinnier, straight ski. A real rarity.

[neck beard]

EHP - Still available in 179 all over and cheap, best ski ever?
Renegade - Too stiff and planky to ski really crappy hard snow in a way that doesn't hurt
Hoji - Haven't skied but i'm sure it's fun, more sidecut and rocker than ehp, so probably less cool in shit snow
Kusula - Is probably rad as fuk, kinda wide for all around.
Down CD3 - Could be promising. Would like to try.
Down CD4 - Looks like a great skinnier, straight ski. A real rarity.

Thanks.

4 looks good for narrow ski days.

Pity the 3 is just in 190. And no side cut listed besides 'progressive'

6 looks inerestin.

Website must have been updated recently. I didn't see so many rockered skis recently when I checked.

[JRainey]

I think the info floating around the internet say the 'progressive' sidecut is 29m in the tip and something like 40 in the tail.

[Vinman]

IMO progressive is anything that is not constant, ie slight ly shorter tip radius with longer tail radius vs a constant radius that is maintained thru the length of the ski's sidecut.

[JRainey]

Just looked at down's new rocker picks on their site, kinda got a chub going.

[SiSt]

I think the info floating around the internet say the 'progressive' sidecut is 29m in the tip and something like 40 in the tail.

It's 29 in the tip, 55 underfoot, 35 in the tail. Actually a little more complex, but that's what you'd get from measuring it. I could say more, but it may be better in a separate thread, even if this one has become very interesting as a general discussion on certain aspects of ski design.

Unread what you see on the site, it's not supposed to be seen until Aug 1st. ;-) At least the texts need more work...

[neck beard]

It's 29 in the tip, 55 underfoot, 35 in the tail.

You should list that on your site. We all understand progressive, but based around what dimensions makes a difference.

Edit: I see you've added a 41m average for one of the skis. Cool.

[Shu Shu]

Just looked at down's new rocker picks on their site, kinda got a chub going.

That's the nicest web design i've seen for checking out a ski. It's like giving it a virtual fondling.

[JRainey]

Yeah, It would be cool if they post pics in their blog. It's good to see the real thing.

[SiSt]

Yeah, It would be cool if they post pics in their blog. It's good to see the real thing.

As mentioned, site's not done yet. Either pics or pics and video. Aug 1st... ;-)

Edit: Thanks Shu Shu. Credit for the site goes to www.ankhou.com

[geo039]

This! Our man Ian gets 99% of the props for the site the past 3 years. Super creative, talented, and a good mag. Respect! Peep his work!

Edit: Thanks Shu Shu. Credit for the site goes to www.ankhou.com

[Judo Chop!]

spotted in Whistler...

[gramboh]

Any more info on these? Gonna get a proper touring setup probably spring or next fall, was thinking Hoji 187, but would take a good look at these instead to save weight (I have Renegades with Guardians for slack).

[Danny Noonan]

but really guys, WHATEVER hoji makes we will all buy.... does it matter

I would agree with this statement more than anything else said in this thread

[rachi]

[superdigg]

Interesting! Almost looks like a 5-point sidecut? 100ish mm under foot?

[SiSt]

Interesting! Almost looks like a 5-point sidecut? 100ish mm under foot?

5-point is a meaningless definition, but yeah, all his skis have tapered tips and tails.

[DGamms]

Put me down as yet another fanboi of whatever Hoji cooks up.

Any more details on these? Weight per pair? Tip-waist-tail dimensions? Rocker profile pics? Release date?

I live in SLC and am hoping 4frnt will put out some demo pairs this year.

[tuco]

I was at 4frnt last Fri. Hoji's in town working through tweaking prototypes to dial it in. Sounded like later season they will have demoes with a release date for next year.