Backcountry Intro lessons for JONGs

[userA]

sounds like you went to snow school last week.
b

[gramboh]

Nice review Lee. I think Khyber.pass wrote one on his blog as well. I've been contemplating one of these with the friends I usually ski with, and the quote below describes it well (weekend warriors with limited time and relatively new to the sport). The opportunity to gain knowledge in the terrain we ski from someone like Keith would be awesome.

All in all, this is a worthy clinic that would benefit a lot of people. I can see the target market for this as not just the introduction to the backcountry for resort skiers but also the time-deprived weekender who wants to get a lot of information very quickly. Perhaps too the aspiring backcountry traveller who wants to tuneup their skills.

[LeeLau]

Good article partially on-topic

http://skiingbusiness.com/18417/feat...s-responsible/

"I think we can try to mediate humbleness for the mountains and encourage people to educate themselves in general mountain sense. I think most of this can come from the media (films, magazines, etc.) that the industry is sponsoring. And I think we should stop supporting media that is showing disrespect towards the mountains. As an example it’s not really cool to out-ski an avalanche and then scream how cool that was. Instead maybe we should see it (and communicate it) as a mistake made and celebrate that we survived our own stupidity. "

[sb]

Instead maybe we should see it (and communicate it) as a mistake made and celebrate that we survived our own stupidity. "

Hell, one could say that nearly everyday of ones life.

The backflip was just show boating.

If I can ever get my lame butt up to W/BC I would take the course.

[Hugh Conway]

Good article partially on-topic

http://skiingbusiness.com/18417/feat...s-responsible/

"I think we can try to mediate humbleness for the mountains and encourage people to educate themselves in general mountain sense. I think most of this can come from the media (films, magazines, etc.) that the industry is sponsoring. And I think we should stop supporting media that is showing disrespect towards the mountains. As an example it’s not really cool to out-ski an avalanche and then scream how cool that was. Instead maybe we should see it (and communicate it) as a mistake made and celebrate that we survived our own stupidity. "

l
An interesting thought but it's pissing into the wind of modern culture. People (ime particularly those <40 with money, aka TGR) want definable easily communicable and measurable experiences. Modern gear/life makes it very easy to achieve said goals - whether skiing or travelling - remaining relatively oblivious to most anything. Not that in the mythic past people knew more, only it took more effort to remain oblivious. Just look at all of the soul bros who's soul bro knowledge card is living a season in a mountain town and spending 3 hours waiting in line for a tram.


regarding the "knowledge" and "learning" part: classes have become much more standardized, again, reflecting a false standards view of a wild place.

[Albeer]

Lesson one in my sklinics: Try not to divot the uptrack, repair it if you do.

[neck beard]

Lesson one in my sklinics: Try not to divot the uptrack, repair it if you do.

My "Lesson 1" in Intro to BC clinic: do not use other people's uptracks. Make your own.

[TahoeJ]

For around Tahoe, Sugar Bowl has a BC clinic.

[Albeer]

My "Lesson 1" in Intro to BC clinic: do not use other people's uptracks. Make your own.

How many times would you do this after breaking initially? Unfortunately it is common for people to follow uptracks.

[LeeLau]

How many times would you do this after breaking initially? Unfortunately it is common for people to follow uptracks.

but it is good to break people of lazy habits no? A good class/teacher might want to discuss this

l
An interesting thought but it's pissing into the wind of modern culture. People (ime particularly those <40 with money, aka TGR) want definable easily communicable and measurable experiences. Modern gear/life makes it very easy to achieve said goals - whether skiing or travelling - remaining relatively oblivious to most anything. Not that in the mythic past people knew more, only it took more effort to remain oblivious. Just look at all of the soul bros who's soul bro knowledge card is living a season in a mountain town and spending 3 hours waiting in line for a tram.

classes have become much more standardized, again, reflecting a false standards view of a wild place.

Difficult for classes to teach humility no doubt. You and some other Americans have implied that Avalanche training classes
are not going the way of the Canadian classes - which is to try to teach safety in terms of terrain management and travel. Is that the case? One would hope that the Intro to Backcountry classes being cited as regional examples here are trying to develop and teach practical skills and not just book learning

[Hugh Conway]

I'm not sure what the necessary basic skill are with popular touring gongshows like in your Blackcomb pics; everyone setting their own skin track is rather pointless in that setting, it can make things worse, not better.

[PNWbrit]

Refusing to use a perfectly good skin track out of some higher principle of BC ethics is retarded. Although putting in a good skin track that can be re-used is a skill worth learning, or being taught or at least avoiding learning completely by trial and error.

[XXX-er]

Feel free to chime in some more ideas from other regions

http://bearmountaineering.ca/index.p...ring-at-burnie

Christopf does "intro to ski mountaineering" weeks for basicly the same price as a guided week of skiing at Burnie hut

Last year he did a course for a group of young locals and they are now all pretty stoked on skiing the BC

[neck beard]

Refusing to use a perfectly good skin track out of some higher principle of BC ethics is retarded. Although putting in a good skin track that can be re-used is a skill worth learning, or being taught or at least avoiding learning completely by trial and error.

Seldom do I see a perfectly good skin track though. They are jagged, steep then flat then really steep, have high angle kick turns, don't flow with the terrain, don't contour, don't offer options, don't offer a view into surrounding terrain, sometimes they are plain unsafe etc etc.

I like to use sections of existing track where they meet my needs.

I recommend avoiding extensive use of existing track as it tunnels thinking and awareness into that of the person who set the track, and because it removes the ability to feel the snow under your skis. 60 minutes of feeling the snow when breaking trail over a wider area is better than any pit I have ever dug. And as you suggested, you'll never learn the art if you always use other people's perfect skin tracks anyway.

You know all this I'm sure, and I am not trying to convince you anyway. These recommendations are for another demographic. And wasted breath mostly. Nearly everyone is interested in being a skier in the backcountry. Almost no one is interested in being a backcountry skier. Very big difference.

It is amazing how often I see sheeple all head up the same steep direct ridge track and totally miss feeling and hearing the [safe] drummy windslab just 50m away from the stomped sheep track. They miss the shooting cracks. They miss the spatial variability in the pack along the hike. All they did was put their head down and sweated up the steep ridge following the sheep trail. Then... they get to the top and ask me I what think of the avalanche conditions!? They are good skiers in the backcountry, but they are not backcountry skiers.

[PNWbrit]

Seldom do I see a perfectly good skin track though. They are jagged, steep then flat then really steep, have high angle kick turns, don't flow with the terrain, don't contour, don't offer options, don't offer a view into surrounding terrain, sometimes they are plain unsafe etc etc.

I like to use sections of existing track where they meet my needs.

I recommend avoiding extensive use of existing track as it tunnels thinking and awareness into that of the person who set the track, and because it removes the ability to feel the snow under your skis. 60 minutes of feeling the snow when breaking trail over a wider area is better than any pit I have ever dug. And as you suggested, you'll never learn the art if you always use other people's perfect skin tracks anyway.

You know all this I'm sure, and I am not trying to convince you anyway. These recommendations are for another demographic. And wasted breath mostly. Nearly everyone is interested in being a skier in the backcountry. Almost no one is interested in being a backcountry skier. Very big difference.

It is amazing how often I see sheeple all head up the same steep direct ridge track and totally miss feeling and hearing the [safe] drummy windslab just 50m away from the stomped sheep track. They miss the shooting cracks. They miss the spatial variability in the pack along the hike. All they did was put their head down and sweated up the steep ridge following the sheep trail. Then... they get to the top and ask me I what think of the avalanche conditions!? They are good skiers in the backcountry, but they are not backcountry skiers.

I have the great honor of having regular touring partners who are skin track Nazis.

[DasBlunt]

Neck Beard needs to write a book, seriously. Great stuff and thanks.

If only to offer some excuse and defense of the bro brah party run mentality, riding any resort these days with controlled slack country can change anyones snow awareness IMO. I know I work hard to maintain it.

[neck beard]

Neck Beard needs to write a book, seriously. Great stuff and thanks.

It isn't me, its those who told me.

Wasn't all that long ago I didn't know the difference. And still get it wrong.

Most us need to be shown, and then to do it often.

[jfost]

Neck Beard needs to write a book, seriously....

prob. would want to go with a pseudonym but agreed otherwise...

[SurfyTurns]

I almost feel gypped. My lvl 1 class happened after several weeks of temperature inversion under a huge dome of high pressure that occured right after a major rain event. While there were layers to be seen, the pack was basically 2 feet of solid crust with various rain crusts and sugar snow crusts under that. I should probably re-take that class and hope for more interesting/educational snow conditions.

American Alpine Institute, up in Bellingham, offers a 1-day refresher course. I took my Avi 1 course with them up at Baker and they were awesome. If you can, take the course with Richard, he's an awesome teacher/guide.

My course happened on a pretty stable day. My partner and I just dug deep until we hit facets and a deep hoar layer. Of course, it was so deep that I couldn't even hold the column on a shovel-tilt test. Good times.

[bodywhomper]

friends of the utah avi center had a great 3-day course. it looks like they stopped. hopefully, they'll offer it again.