hardwood, engineered hardwood and pergo.

[cramer]

im not seeing much difference in price on the 3. Im putting floors in and was hardwood all the way until i got a look at the other 2 products. The pergo/laminate seems the way to go. Unless you take a kniife to the stuff, it doesnt scratch. I know we have some flippers on here, what do you guys put in. It seems the new home buyer wants "hardwood". But im not looking to sell the house probably ever. The laminate or engineered hardwood seems like less work and is going to last longer. School me on floors please. Making a decision this week. I know, TECH TALK...fuck off.

[mud]

Pergo sucks, it starts to fade in high traffic areas after a year of use.

[iceman]

Well if your priority is not to have scratching and to not have to care for it, then Pergo/laminate is the way to go. Personally I think it looks and feels kinda cheap and plastick-y and I much prefer wood for that reason. Wood floors can easily outlive you but as you know they can be damaged by water/scratching etc. We just refinished the 11-year-old floors on the main level of our house, I can live with that cycle. It's really gonna come down to your priorities if you don't care about resale value. I've been looking at concrete floors lately, they are cool too.

[mud]

What about title or terrazzo instead of wood? I just refinished some 50 year old terrazzo in my grandmothers house and was surprised how well it's looked.

[cramer]

Pergo sucks, it starts to fade in high traffic areas after a year of use.

mud, good point thanks for the input.

[cramer]

Well if your priority is not to have scratching and to not have to care for it, then Pergo/laminate is the way to go. Personally I think it looks and feels kinda cheap and plastick-y and I much prefer wood for that reason. Wood floors can easily outlive you but as you know they can be damaged by water/scratching etc. We just refinished the 11-year-old floors on the main level of our house, I can live with that cycle. It's really gonna come down to your priorities if you don't care about resale value. I've been looking at concrete floors lately, they are cool too.

Ice, thanks for the feedback. Thus why i posted on here. Any idea on the "engineered" hardwood. Is it the same shit as the pergo stuff? Or is it more like a true hardwood. Can it be refinished? I can put this job off another 6 months if needed and put some more money into it and put some true hardwood in. I just want to do it right. How much did it cost to refinish the floors? Concrete is not a bad idea, it gets hot as shit out here where i live, lol.

[cramer]

What about title or terrazzo instead of wood? I just refinished some 50 year old terrazzo in my grandmothers house and was surprised how well it's looked.

wow that looks nice, but no way in hell im selling the wife on that. It looks like ball room flooring.

[4matic]

wow that looks nice, but no way in hell im selling the wife on that. It looks like ball room flooring.

Put floor heaters under it. That would be awesome. You can pick your colors and finish.

[IVplay]

Put floor heaters under it. That would be awesome. You can pick your colors and finish.

Limestone floors+heated floors+bare feet= awesome

[Jethro]

Ice, thanks for the feedback. Thus why i posted on here. Any idea on the "engineered" hardwood. Is it the same shit as the pergo stuff? Or is it more like a true hardwood. Can it be refinished? I can put this job off another 6 months if needed and put some more money into it and put some true hardwood in. I just want to do it right. How much did it cost to refinish the floors? Concrete is not a bad idea, it gets hot as shit out here where i live, lol.

'Engineered' hardwood is basically a T&G plywood with a micro veneer of real wood, or sometimes a photographic copy of wood grain. You really cannot refinish it.

[iceman]

cramer, Engineered Wood is basically like OSB, if you're familiar with that. They break the wood down into fibers, and then mix it with stuff that hardens it together. I don't really know a hell of a lot about it but I do know it's supposed to be really stable as far as warping and whatnot, and I'd think it would be pretty hard to scratch. It's sorta kinda halfway between laminate and real wood, basically. One engineered wood that I've seen is bamboo, which is cool. It's super hard, it grows like a weed (it is a weed) and the markings are nice-looking.

Refinishing the floors here cost about $5/sq. ft. all told, but that included moving all the furniture and then putting it back, plus we had a guy here doing other stuff while they did the floors and the cost all got rolled together. Somewhere right around 4 bucks a foot, maybe a little less, if i broke it out.

edit: I think Jethro's ^^^ getting a little confused between Engineered wood and laminate.

You should check out concrete, it's not really more expensive than hardwood and it has some advantages and disadvantages. It last forever, it's hard to damage, but it's super hard and if you drop a glass or something they just explode. Plus it's tough on your feet and ankles if you spend a lot of time walking on it. It does look cool, you can do pretty much any color you want, it does stay cool (but is great with radiant heat under it too). I personally am sold on it for this project I'm working on but the wife doesn't like the look. So I guess we're not using it.

[IVplay]

cramer, Engineered Wood is basically like OSB, if you're familiar with that. They break the wood down into fibers, and then mix it with stuff that hardens it together. I don't really know a hell of a lot about it but I do know it's supposed to be really stable as far as warping and whatnot, and I'd think it would be pretty hard to scratch. It's sorta kinda halfway between laminate and real wood, basically. One engineered wood that I've seen is bamboo, which is cool. It's super hard, it grows like a weed (it is a weed) and the markings are nice-looking.

Refinishing the floors here cost about $5/sq. ft. all told, but that included moving all the furniture and then putting it back, plus we had a guy here doing other stuff while they did the floors and the cost all got rolled together. Somewhere right around 4 bucks a foot, maybe a little less, if i broke it out.

edit: I think Jethro's ^^^ getting a little confused between Engineered wood and laminate.

You should check out concrete, it's not really more expensive than hardwood and it has some advantages and disadvantages. It last forever, it's hard to damage, but it's super hard and if you drop a glass or something they just explode. Plus it's tough on your feet and ankles if you spend a lot of time walking on it. It does look cool, you can do pretty much any color you want, it does stay cool (but is great with radiant heat under it too). I personally am sold on it for this project I'm working on but the wife doesn't like the look. So I guess we're not using it.

Go with hardwood. It's beautiful. You only need to refinish it about every ten years, and even though you say you'll never move from your home, you can't predict your situation in ten years and if you want to down size. If you do sell your home, hardwood increases the value more than any of your other options (don't know what engineered hardwood is so exclude that), and as stated above I personally think laminate looks cheap.

Edit: if you can put in heated limestone floors in the kitchen, well worth it.

[jfost]

... it gets hot as shit out here where i live, lol.

man, you'd better not be in Pleasanton or some shit after raggin on SEAtown in that other thread...

edit: http://www.hoskinghardwood.com/Depar...dId=7&pageId=7

looks like the top layer is hwd, so you can refinish it a few times... pergo is the one that has a photo-laminate of wood grain on it.

[iceman]

Go with hardwood. It's beautiful. You only need to refinish it about every ten years, and even though you say you'll never move from your home, you can't predict your situation in ten years and if you want to down size. If you do sell your home, hardwood increases the value more than any of your other options (don't know what engineered hardwood is so exclude that), and as stated above I personally think laminate looks cheap.

Edit: if you can put in heated limestone floors in the kitchen, well worth it.

Wise beyond his years this <cough>14-year-old<cough>.

[Jethro]

edit: I think Jethro's ^^^ getting a little confused between Engineered wood and laminate.

Iceman was mostly correct. Engineered wood has a real wood top layer, like I stated. The good stuff can be refinished and cheep stuff,which is fairly thin, probably will not withstand a re-sanding. The photographic stuff I mentioned is not considered engineered hardwood.http://www.hoskinghardwood.com/Depar...dId=7&pageId=7

[cramer]

cramer, Engineered Wood is basically like OSB, if you're familiar with that. They break the wood down into fibers, and then mix it with stuff that hardens it together. I don't really know a hell of a lot about it but I do know it's supposed to be really stable as far as warping and whatnot, and I'd think it would be pretty hard to scratch. It's sorta kinda halfway between laminate and real wood, basically. One engineered wood that I've seen is bamboo, which is cool. It's super hard, it grows like a weed (it is a weed) and the markings are nice-looking.

Refinishing the floors here cost about $5/sq. ft. all told, but that included moving all the furniture and then putting it back, plus we had a guy here doing other stuff while they did the floors and the cost all got rolled together. Somewhere right around 4 bucks a foot, maybe a little less, if i broke it out.

edit: I think Jethro's ^^^ getting a little confused between Engineered wood and laminate.

You should check out concrete, it's not really more expensive than hardwood and it has some advantages and disadvantages. It last forever, it's hard to damage, but it's super hard and if you drop a glass or something they just explode. Plus it's tough on your feet and ankles if you spend a lot of time walking on it. It does look l, you can do pretty much any color you want, it does stay cool (but is great with radiant heat under it too). I personally am sold on it for this project I'm working on but the wife doesn't like the look. So I guess we're not using it.

I thought you were kidding on the concrete. You have a site off top of your head with some photo's? Fuck dude, now you threw a wrench in the plan.

EDIT: concrete looks fucking sweet. Wife gave it zero thought what so ever. NO...thanks for showing me though ice. That looks pretty fucking sic.

[iceman]

Just do an image search on concrete floors. They can be beautiful. They do all kinds of shit with inlays and varied colors and patterns. And the color goes all the way through, so even if you manage to damage it somehow it still looks good. Actually I'm not really sure why my wife doesn't like it, she says it's the look but I think it's the concept more than the look, 'cause imo they look pretty cool. And it's not like there's only one look, you can do a ton with it.

[IVplay]

Concrete floors can look good when used correctly. In this pic (off google images) it helps gives this kitchen the "Industrial steel look loft look". Downside it's cold on your feet.



You can also polish them and make them look shiny/glossy.

[iceman]

cramer, take her to Whole Foods sometime and show her the floors there, they do concrete in all their stores and they do a pretty good job with it. Maybe she'll change her mind...mine didn't though. Oh well.

[gaijin]

If you'd like scratches to show less, go with a lighter finish. Dark finishes almost exaggerate scratches, imo.

We got a veneer with the intention of replacing it after the kids stop abusing it. I prefer other flooring like real hardwood, tatami (woven bamboo grass), or just nice carpet.

I dislike veneer simply because it's pretending to be wood. I actually prefer the natural characteristics of real wood- the warping, the shrinking, etc. I think the appearance of real wood improves with age. Veneer? Not so much. It just looks more and more fake as it ages and takes abuse.

I would personally never use veneer for a long-term solution.

[deadwood]

I'm a hardwood fan, so I'm jaded. FWIW, I know a couple hardwood installers that will not install lumber liquidator hardwood. All their hardwood are factory seconds, a pain to install and waste %s are much higher than average. So keep this in mind when working up prices.

[Buke]

Hardwood. Pergo sucks. I'm shopping for a house right now and everytime we look at one that has pergo floors I start doing the math about how much it's going to cost to replace the crappy pergo.

There are pros and cons to the engineered stuff but I don't have any real experience with it so I can't comment.

I love concrete floors but they have some problems that you should know about if the floor framing in your house is made of typical wood joists.

Hardwood weighs about 2 pounds per square foot and concrete weighs about 12 pounds per inch of thickness. In order to keep concrete from shrinking and cracking like crazy it needs to be thick enough to hold wire mesh reinforcing, so probably 1.5" thick at a bare minimum, so the concrete will weight 20 psf which is probably twice as much as the floor weighs without the concrete topping. It's not very common for wood framed floors to be over designed enough to carry the weight of concrete toppings. I've seen some concrete floors that didn't work out so well because of cracking and it is pretty crappy.

[Cono Este]

Laminate quality is variable. If its priced the same as 3/8" oak, or a good engineered, then its way over priced. The big difference is in installation costs. Laminate cheapest, you can do it yourself, engineered second, then solid.

In laminate, Look for the commercial stuff, with beveled edges etc..and its really study and nice. 1/2" thick so there is no bounce to it. You see it in nice restaurants. There is alot of crap out there.

Engineered wood is nice with a good protective layer on top. But you cannot refinish it. You want a 1/4" top layer.

Same thing with 3/8" solid, you cannot refinnish it.

Id go with Commercial laminate, enginered wood over 3/8" thick solid because it will feel more sturdy under foot, then a 3/4 solid. Solid should be double the cost of laminate installed.

One day I should get back into the flooring business.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Pergo and it's various brothers in arms are nothing but a picture of wood [photolaminate] over some form of masonite ie cardboard with either an applied foam backer or a thin layer of foam stapled to the floor. I my opinion "trailer park" , the more expensive ones have more pictures so the floor does not look like it is made of the same 6 or 7 boards and has a thicker cardboard backer which helps it feel more substantial and also locks together better. If you ever fuck a board up in the middle there is no way to replace it so get a rug.

Solid hardwood unfinished and prefinished is just that, real wood. More options for wood species and you can do inset boarders around islands or perimeter of the room if you desire. If you fuck up a board you can replace it rather easily. Look at the Janka scale if you have dogs before laying that cherry floor.

Engineered flooring is plywood with a prefinished top layer useually around 1/8". You can easily sand it once if you use the U Sand orbital sander which is not a demonic stripper of wood. I usually glue this down and it does not move nor creak at all. Works well over crete and or radiant due to its stability.

This is a maple engineered floor I did 2 years ago and is a 7 layer hardwood plywood with just over 1/8" maple wear layer. It is bone dry January and there are 0 shrinkage gaps as the plywood is very stable. Not easy but a board can be replaced in the field.

[pepperdawg]

We re-did our entire upstairs with some Bella Hardwood (was previously carpet) – did like 3 bedrooms a hallway and bonus room ourselves over two summers.

Its not that much more difficult then pergo (we did 2 closets in pergo and its ok for that) BUT if your are going to stay in your house, its worth the stretch/$$$ for hardwood. (I think). Invest in a gun/power nailer and compessor. Sell power nailer on craiglist after project is done. Keep compressor for handiness if you dont already have one...

Only work of advice – keep in mind the “hardness” – heh –“HARD” – heh – of the wood you choose – we chose based on color/movement – but it was one of the softer woods….after a year of so – lots of small indentions etc (we also have a 4 and 5 year olds - who when they were 1-2-3 obviously beat the hell out of the floors too)…..we realized this and ended up doing the bonus room in a similar color, yet much harder wood and much better - nothing!. (Both were some sort of rainforest deforesting-woods that I think the Sierra Club would not approve of) That was our one lesson learned.

Forgot – we did a hand-scaped oak in the living room and that looks $$$ and standups bulletproof....my favorite room in the joint…

We got all our shit though lumber liquidators – sign up for their spam and everyonce in awhile you will see dealios come by.

I dunno – good luck.


edit - why does editing suck so much with IE?