PSA: HDSLR Audio Must-Have

[Tippster]

Finally a great Audio component for your HDSLR: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...SLR_Audio.html

[kidwoo]

That's kinda cool.

[dipstik]

Been using one of those for the past couple years...it's just OK. It's a great tool to have in the bag, and it looks like they added some additional functionality to this new model, but I'm not sure I'd want to upgrade.

I've found the best scenario for this to be a run-and-gun setup where you are using a wireless lav. If you're going to put the camera on sticks, I'd rather just use an external recorder, where I know with 100% confidence the audio file will be clean. With the Beachtek it's always been a gamble. Too many moving parts, too many things to go wrong. And at the end of the day you're still pumping the audio stream into a Canon/Nikon body, which has a habit of introducing all kinds of noise, even with the AGC disabled.

[Tippster]

If you're going to put the camera on sticks, I'd rather just use an external recorder, where I know with 100% confidence the audio file will be clean.

Depends on the recorder, but yeah. I am pretty much on record in this forum wishing Canon would put mini-xlr's in their cameras, and AGC is an abortion which will always keep direct-captured audio in the home-video realm.

Honest question: when you use an external recorder how do you synch them without slaved time code? A clapper?

[hitek79]

I've only just started doing video stuff, but I use a $10 iPhone clapper app, and it's pretty easy to sync that way. Granted the clips I'm working with are typically less than 30 seconds, so it's been pretty easy to do so far. I'm using a $30 lav from Radio Shack with a Tascam DR-05 that I got from Amazon for $70. Sound is pretty decent for our project, but it's nothing complex at all.

[kidwoo]

Honest question: when you use an external recorder how do you synch them without slaved time code? A clapper?

or in layman's terms, putting your hand in front of the camera and snapping your fingers


You know.....'technical stuff'

[systemoverblow'd]

I use a Zoom h4n. No timecode is no big deal. I have someone clap everytime and that works 95% of the time. I had a 5 camera shoot with external audio where we couldn't jamsync so we had to go the clap route.

A good editor can sync tons of cams and audio sources pretty quickly and easily if they are at least partially capable and not an idiot. I don't even bother waiting for pluraleyes anymore, I just do it manually.

[dipstik]

Depends on the recorder, but yeah. I am pretty much on record in this forum wishing Canon would put mini-xlr's in their cameras, and AGC is an abortion which will always keep direct-captured audio in the home-video realm.

Honest question: when you use an external recorder how do you synch them without slaved time code? A clapper?

Couldn't agree more, the fact that they still haven't put in mini-xlr's (and seem to be ignoring audio altogether) is frustrating at best. For external, I've been using a Zoom H4N with an Oktava MK012 hypercardioid. It's easy to setup and the sound quality is obviously great for what it is. For run and gun situations, I keep the much smaller Zoom H2 in my back pocket. If I'm strapped for time or space, I'll plug the Oktava into the Beachtek.

As far as syncing goes, I just have myself or the subject give a clap in front of the camera, once everything is rolling. The 5D has that shitty little onboard mic, which makes syncing the peaks of the clap really easy in post. I messed around with the pluraleyes demo before, but found that just clapping is pretty foolproof and reliable. Seems like subjects understand the purpose of the clap, and it can sometimes double as a quick icebreaker too.

[Meathelmet]

I use a Zoom h4n. No timecode is no big deal. I have someone clap everytime and that works 95% of the time. I had a 5 camera shoot with external audio where we couldn't jamsync so we had to go the clap route.

A good editor can sync tons of cams and audio sources pretty quickly and easily if they are at least partially capable and not an idiot. I don't even bother waiting for pluraleyes anymore, I just do it manually.

Yo mang, do you use any plugins in fcp 7 to sync the tracks? Heard that some people has used some progs to sync the audio, like you have the audio from the camera and then bring in the external audio and it syncs to the waveform?

Working? Worth the hassle?

Thinking of getting a external sd recorder for the audio and trying to sync that route. Tried to do some google-fu , but just got confused if the progs are legit.

[systemoverblow'd]

Yo mang, do you use any plugins in fcp 7 to sync the tracks? Heard that some people has used some progs to sync the audio, like you have the audio from the camera and then bring in the external audio and it syncs to the waveform?

Working? Worth the hassle?

Thinking of getting a external sd recorder for the audio and trying to sync that route. Tried to do some google-fu , but just got confused if the progs are legit.

The only program I know that is even half capable is pluraleyes. The only problem is, if the camera is far away from whatever the audio source is it doesn't work too well. If you are doing an interview and recording someone a few feet away with a lav, both mics are picking up the same thing so it works good. At any distance that the camera can't pick up good audio it is pretty much worthless.

The 5 cam show I was talking about was 7 different lavs and 1 combined track and all 5 cams were at different angles and far apart. Pluraleyes never would have worked (and I tried).

In certain situations, yes, pluraleyes will work and fast. But I just go the clap route and sync waveform spikes from all sources. It seems to work, like I said, about 95% of the time. And even if one errant camera or audio didn't catch the clap, it's usually easy enough to just sync that one with a little effort.

I used to find it a PITA, but with time it just becomes second nature. I used to hate it but can breeze through a day of filming with multiple cams and audio sources in a couple hours.

Just remember... Get it close and "option+arrow", play. "shift+arrow" to go back 1 second and then "option+arrow", play (go in both directions, some times even if the waveform lines up doesn't mean it is the best sounding sync). listen for the least echo. Done in seconds.

[Meathelmet]

Damn! That was a shitload of good info!. appreciated.
Will have to check the prog out see how it works.
Btw, have you (or anyone.) used the wireless button mics and tried to get decent sound in, say,using the tipps device?

Tried some bugger and it seemed to get all kind of interference from stuff,like kinoflows and wireless controllorers. Afterwards we thought it was un normal, that the disturbance might have been because the cam+ext.dispaly was connected to the same power outlet so it might have picked up some shit from that.

Have you had any success with them or should i forget them unless we have a dedicated sound guy for them?

[systemoverblow'd]

Damn! That was a shitload of good info!. appreciated.
Will have to check the prog out see how it works.
Btw, have you (or anyone.) used the wireless button mics and tried to get decent sound in, say,using the tipps device?

Tried some bugger and it seemed to get all kind of interference from stuff,like kinoflows and wireless controllorers. Afterwards we thought it was un normal, that the disturbance might have been because the cam+ext.dispaly was connected to the same power outlet so it might have picked up some shit from that.

Have you had any success with them or should i forget them unless we have a dedicated sound guy for them?

I have 2 pairs of these. They seem to work pretty well. Not sure of what mics you are talking about though.

Rule #1... wired is always 100% better than wireless if you can go that route.
Rule #2... Always monitor audio so you can pick up problems before you ruin a day of shooting.
Rule #3... Always have tons of batteries. Weak batteries are the #1 cause of fuck-ups with wireless systems. I use Sanyo Eneloop rechargeables.

Any wireless system can encroach on another frequency. The best systems are those that can change frequency to combat the environment you are in.

PS... in a closed environment interview I would go with a well placed good boom mic over lavs any day of the week.

[Tippster]

If you're gonna go wireless and you"re in an Urban setting don't cheap out. Yes, wired mics are better generally, but if you have the $$$ for a Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid setup you will pretty much never have an issue with interference. Sometimes wires aren't an option.

Sennheiser makes good Wireless transmitter/receiver setups as well.

In both cases you better budget at least $1500-$2000 (not including the microphone) or else you're wasting your money... and that's just for one transmitter/receiver combo.