"Shit happens."

[dos bolsas]

You don't get it.

You forget that when yer like 20 on the EC, you've got it ALL figured out. Everything is clear. No grey areas.

[Zeedashbo]

^^^^

You're a Fucking idiot. Were you there? Do you live in the pnw? Do you intimately know the terrain? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the snow pack?

Aside from being in that group, i can answer yes to all those questions.

Its a dick head maneuver to post your armchair quarterbacking in a thread mourning the loss of some amazing people. more than likely you're just a habitual dissenter with nothing positive in your life so you just shit on anything you can to make yourself feel better.

If you have questions about decision making on that particular day feel free to pm me. But keep your negative bullshit out of the thread.

[dos bolsas]

i haven't armchaired anythin, except for sayin ADronDick skier is dumb.

[Zeedashbo]

Sorry man. Wasn't referring to you

[dos bolsas]

got it - sorry for your loss. 1 would be hard, can't image 3.

[Core Shot]

this thread below has a much better discussion of "shit happens" and its more entertaining and less sanctimonious.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-sharted-today

[AdironRider]

A thread on the internet does not equal talking shit to someones widow or taking a full page ad out in the NYT. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

[auvgeek]

^^ Clearly you have no idea how personally close some TGR members were to the victims.

[covert]

If the smartest, savviest, nicest people in the world get lured into making horrible decisions, how do I prevent myself from doing the same thing?

Being smart doesn't necessarily prepare you to make good decisions. Experience broadens the knowledge base you may draw on to make good decisions but does not require you to do so.

Skiing, hazard assessment and decision making are all separate skill sets. What constitutes acceptable risk should be part of your decision making process.

You can't eliminate hazard but you can avoid it. Risk is a continuum. People that expose themselves to avalanche hazard look for a balance on that high wire continuum...ideally.

[SchralphMacchio]

A thread on the internet does not equal talking shit to someones widow

Did you miss the part in that thread where Cody Townsend said that his wife nearly died yesterday??? TGR is big enough where if someone suffers a tragic accident at a resort or in the backcountry, someone here likely knew them very very well. The Stevens incident was no exception and hit hard with a lot of people.

SFO's got a point - it's not constructive to tell someone who just lost a wife, husband, best skiing friend, person they see at the resort EVERY morning they go skiing, that their friend screwed up. It is constructive to analyze the situation at a time when more information has been gathered and people are ready to think about the incident and try to learn from it.

[XXX-er]

Sarah Burke = shit happens. Jamie Pierre = stupid decisions. There's a difference.

we have all played on the edge at some time, some of us just play closer to it more often ...I am not gona judge what constitutes "too close" because the incident report will tell us that

"Stupid decisions" would be a harsh term to use for either of the 2 above skiers or all the people involved in the Aviy but I wouldn't say that shit just happened to any of them because they all had to put a lot of effort/expense/forethought into getting into a position where they got into a lot of trouble

IMO "Shit happens" would be all those people trying to live normal mundane lives who got killed in a random earthquake or tsunami

[covert]

good decisions or bad: shit will happen when you dedicate your life to crushing it. RIP.

[Zeedashbo]

good decisions or bad: shit will happen when you dedicate your life to crushing it. RIP.

That's perfect.

[SchralphMacchio]

good decisions or bad: shit will happen when you dedicate your life to crushing it. RIP.

Well freaking said.

[adam]

I've had bad crashes that luckily ended in minor injuries. Two come to mind: in one I had a terrible gut feeling about before I dropped and the second felt like the most casual, safe thing in the world b/c of how many times I had done it before. Sometimes unknown factors change that you really can't detect or stop - you can either keep going and accept that or completely quit I guess. Is that bad decision making or stupidity?

Can't say I know which was the case w/ the recent tragedy, but as others have said in this thread, sometimes the only thing you can do to not get hurt or die is to completely cease your involvement.

[summit]

Did they do everything perfectly within their level? 3 people died. Surely there is something we can learn here. It would give their tragic loss more meaning.

Sent from my DROID4 using TGR Forums

[homemadesalsa]

I keep going back to a conversation that Cookie MOnster started on here a year or so ago, where we try to balance Desire and Uncertainty. High desire and high uncertainty = gambling.

So how do I resolve these? I don't want to omit desire- it is the root of inspiration. But to balance it I resolve uncertainty somewhat. I try to find a system for decision-making to use: it may be simple like Alptruth or more complex like the 7 common problems or Volken's Likelihood and Consequences matrix.

Whatever it is, I take that crucial moment of planning and introspection (that someone here earlier referred to as the voice screaming in your ear) to stop, have myself or my friend give me the smack-down, "is this what we should be doing right now? Is this the correct terrain and technique for these conditions?"

Gaining clarity on the difference between what I want to do and what I think we OUGHT to do is the goal.

I don't know the terrain and the decision-making in the Stevens Pass group; I am deeply sorry for their losses, which are all of our losses. but I am desperately trying to learn how NOT to let that happen to me ahead of time, not as 20/20 hindsight. And I am trying to learn how to teach that respect and awareness. All these discussions are helpful, not disrespectful. I have dedicated a large part of my professional life to keeping people from dying in avalanches, and it hurts when these things happen. We have to look critically at accidents, we learn a lot, even though it is painful, especially from the inside.

[icelanticskier]

I am desperately trying to learn how NOT to let that happen to me ahead of time

been a scary snowpack in much of the west this season. stuffs been running on lower angled slopes (INCLUDING HEAVILY TREED SLOPES) than what has been the norm. weird snowpack=weird avalanches. avi danger appeared to be rated at high or damn close to it. big group of folks or many folks in the area creates camaraderie and comfort. familiarity with terrain causes complacency. desire. pow fever.

lots of red flags present. pick one or two.

unfortunately folks died. never forget this when you feel yerself teetering on the edge of being human.

rog

[PNWbrit]

been a scary snowpack in much of the west this season.

Much of the west's snowpack this season has absolutely zero to do with the PNW snowpack this past weekend.

getting caught in a slide on a high avi danger forecast day is retarded. Stay home or ski in bounds.

Lots of good BC skiing gets very safely done on high danger days.

[coreshot-tourettes]

The way the avy was described as "coming through the trees" I wonder if another party triggered it on top of them.

[Bunion 2020]

I don't know the terrain and the decision-making in the Stevens Pass group; I am deeply sorry for their losses, which are all of our losses. but I am desperately trying to learn how NOT to let that happen to me ahead of time, not as 20/20 hindsight. And I am trying to learn how to teach that respect and awareness. All these discussions are helpful, not disrespectful. I have dedicated a large part of my professional life to keeping people from dying in avalanches, and it hurts when these things happen. We have to look critically at accidents, we learn a lot, even though it is painful, especially from the inside.

Well stated Lynn, I don't see commenting on this particular section as disrespectful.

Over in the This Sounds Bad thread? absolutely.

But this section of the forum is about discussion, not "vibes"

[powder11]

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't ski for "fun". I ski because I could not live my life without skiing. That passion carries a certain degree of risk of death. I think a lot of people playing this game don't comprehend that fact and think they can mitigate circumstances all the time and never have a problem. Those people are fooling themselves. Death lurks in every aspect of skiing. You could catch an edge ripping a groomer and kiss a tree. Lights out. How many times have you tomahawked through terrain that you shouldn't be tomahawking through? Shit happens. Sometimes that's the only way to describe it. If you don't like the risks, then don't play the game.

[icelanticskier]

Much of the west's snowpack this season has absolutely zero to do with the PNW snowpack this past weekend.

your point? insight? high danger? scary? i did say "much" not all.

rog

[ak_powder_monkey]

Setting off the avalanche that kills you really doesn't fit the definition of objective risk, or does it?

Sure it does, if you are skiing in avalanche terrain there is always a chance that the slope will slide and kill you, just like if you are ice climbing there is always a risk the ice will fall off the cliff and kill you. The trick is minimizing objective risk, its impossible to eliminate it though.

[skifishbum]

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't ski for "fun". I ski because I could not live my life without skiing. That passion carries a certain degree of risk of death. I think a lot of people playing this game don't comprehend that fact and think they can mitigate circumstances all the time and never have a problem. Those people are fooling themselves. Death lurks in every aspect of skiing. You could catch an edge ripping a groomer and kiss a tree. Lights out. How many times have you tomahawked through terrain that you shouldn't be tomahawking through? Shit happens. Sometimes that's the only way to describe it. If you don't like the risks, then don't play the game.

"its what we do"
and defines who we are
call em variables, acts of nature, mistakes, whateveer
but in high risk high reward actvities like skiing, ww rowing, climbing, base huckin, xstreme mntbikin ect
shit that stokes the soul and brings the shit eatin grin happens
shit that makes ya dead also happens
If ya ask me givin a chance for the deceased to be laid to rest and fam and friends a chance to morn for a day or two
and a professional incident report to come out
before you start the mmacqbin would show respect becomin of callin yourself a maggot.