Garmont Shaman size question

[El Chupacabra]

Trying to confirm Garmont Shaman sizing - I am considering buying a pair of 317 BSL ones, which are supposedly UK 8.5, but 26.5 mondo. I usually wear a 315ish alpine boot, which is always a 27.5 mondo. I've read that Garmont's sizing was a little screwed up on these boots.

Do the Shamans' internal sizing fit like most alpine boots? I. E. does a 317 Shaman fit like a typical 315ish alpine boot?

I'm not able to try these on before ordering, but the deal is good enough that I'll take the chance, and ship them back if necessary.

I've fondled a smaller size of these boots (too small to try on), and the shell seemed like a good anatomic shape for my feet.

[robnow]

UK 8.5=US 9.5=Mondo 27.5=BSL 317

[DGamms]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Please let the JONG comments flow as needed. I've owned a pair of 27.0 Shamans as my only boot for four seasons. Sizing seems similar to any other 98mm lasted alpine boot (I have a low volume foot, 10.5 street shoe). Tight anatomic fit with great heel hold, deeper than average heel pocket. A little too tight over the sixth toe for me initially. Now that my stock liner is packed out, they feel a little loose over the top of the foot even with the buckles cranked down to maximum tightness. Have skied them exclusively with the "vibram" soles in STH 916s, appropriate binding retention and release every time. Overall, really happy with the boot for downhill performance. Definitely a bit stiff and heavy for extended touring.

[Hicks]

Do the Shamans' internal sizing fit like most alpine boots?

Yes.

Else DGamms comments are pretty much on the mark. Had the same problem with too much room over the top of the foot so added an extra sole. Although advertised as a hybrid it is not a boot for extended AT IMO.

[axebiker]

I normally wear a 27.0. I wore the 8 in the Shaman, which had the 317 sole. Pretty good fit for me. Great heel pocket, but the forefoot got sloppy for me really quick. LOved the boot and fit otherwise.

[El Chupacabra]

Thanks all-

don't know where I saw that the 317 Shaman was a 26.5 mondo; 27.5 makes more sense given the BSL.

I'll give the boots a try. Firm heel hold is the #1 important thing for fitting boots for me; the rest I can make work, but I've never been able to "add" heel hold-down well enough.

[marshalolson]

the shaman has a vice-like heel hold. really incredible actually.

they are a fairly low volume 27 @ 317mm bsl, but fairly normal-ish all in all for a race lasted boot.

[robnow]

Although advertised as a hybrid it is not a boot for extended AT IMO.

Really the only thing 'hybrid' about it is that is has a grippier sole and made of Pebax to reduce some weight. Otherwise its based off their G150 World Cup boot which, don't know how true this is but is supposed to have been designed by the same guy that designed the Dobermann. Also, finally the first boot I can think of designed with a more anatomical fit with Lange following suit a few years later. Too bad Garmont didn't do better with these.

[Kim Jong-un]

Correct. 317 bsl is the 27-27.5 mondo shell. It will have an circled 8 stamped on the side of the heel.

Had my Shaman's now for 3 yrs. Absolutely love them. I have a 1cm shell fit in mine. They're built like a brick shithouse with no frills and a great fit (w/o the stock liner though). The shell is very sculpted to the foot. One very minor quibble not noticeble when skiing...the lower cuff buckle strap (the one where the buckle bail latches on) seems like it doesn't fit as well as it should around the shell. This is evident on all the Shaman's I've ever seen but I can't say that other than buckling them up, its ever noticeable.

While the boot is great--the stock liner is a turd. If you try them on with the stock liners I am willing to bet $ you will hate them. I think that's why the boot never sold well. I had horrible hot spots around the ankles and ditched the liners after a few tries. I use the Intuition PW or Lux liner which transformed these boots, and as Marshal notes, heel hold down is excellent. IMO they are the best all around resort/sidecountry boot I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot of boots. With the Intuitions they are also fairly light for a alpine oriented boot.

[klauss]

I like these boots too. My UK size 8 = 217 bsl. These fit similar to my other 27.5 sized boots as far as length. I had to switch to a PW plug liner in mine. They do come DH as well as some rubber soles, but are no better for AT use than downhill boots. The buckles do snap closed like mouse traps.

These were going for 80% off at DOG last week, but looks like the deal has changed. Keep an eye out.

[El Chupacabra]

These were going for 80% off at DOG last week, but looks like the deal has changed. Keep an eye out.

Worried there for a minute -- just called to follow through on my order from yesterday; where DOG had placed it on hold for me, pending confirmation of the BSL. They still had it in the system at the 80%-off price.

backcountry.com rocks!

[givethepigeye]

STP has them for $299 fyi

[skiing-in-jackson]

Ahhh... The Shaman. I honestly thought I was done hearing about this boot. I skied it over three hundred days in three seasons. I'll miss it.

It was a very popular boot with JH Ski Patrol. Mine were awesome.

317mm for sure. When I first got them, I was concerned the shell would be too long- it was great. As Marshsal stated above, the heel hold was super tight.

Order toes and heels now. They are hard to find. Almost everybody I knew skied it on the alpine soles. The AT soles had a slight rocker in the toe.

[turnfarmer]

Just started skiing a pair. Seems to have a lot more toe room than my Dobermanns.
Like that a lot- much warmer. Stephen, what boot did you pick to replace them?

[El Chupacabra]

I skied it over three hundred days in three seasons.

Order toes and heels now. They are hard to find. Almost everybody I knew skied it on the alpine soles. The AT soles had a slight rocker in the toe.

If they last 300 days, that'll be 7-8 years for me. I'm only buying new boots because I found that my current ones are cracking over the instep; this is only season #3 or 4 for them, only about 100-120 days.

Do you know if the AT soles in these boots are flat enough to use in alpine bindings? From the photos, they don't look much different from the DIN soles -- in contrast to all the rest of the interchangeable AT soles I've seen, which have a pronounced rocker to them.

[skiing-in-jackson]

I
Do you know if the AT soles in these boots are flat enough to use in alpine bindings? From the photos, they don't look much different from the DIN soles -- in contrast to all the rest of the interchangeable AT soles I've seen, which have a pronounced rocker to them.

They don't look too different, but there's definitely some rocker to them. I'll try to take a picture of them today and post.

I've seen some guys who run them in Salomon 916s. Vertical toe height adjustment you know...

[skiing-in-jackson]

Stephen, what boot did you pick to replace them?

Fischer Vacuum- the boot I got to ski in last year's Powder Mag Test Week and got a nice little honorable mention in Pow Aug 2011 Buyer's guide. I maybe have more days on the Fischer Vacuums than anybody in the country. Some 30 days last year and 75+ this year. I love them they are great boots. - Way different boot than the Shamans though.

Long term review coming in a week or so...

[El Chupacabra]

Update: my Shamans arrived, BSL 317 = 8.5 UK = 27.5 mondo = 9.5 U.S. = my size.

Compared to my old boots (Atomic Hawx 110, 316 BSL, 27.5 mondo):
- Shaman heel pocket is a bit deeper
- Shaman cuff tapers closer to my ankle - good for me; the Hawx was a bit large there
- Shaman forefoot is narrower, but I punched out the sides on my Hawx at the metatarsals, so not a fair comparison. I'm pretty sure I'll need to punch out the side of the Shamans near the pinky toe.
- (indoors warm temp flex test): Shaman flex at quoted 120 (stamped 130 in large white letters) is comparable to the Hawx at 110. When flexing deeply into the Shaman, the cuffs cause the lowers to bulge out quite a bit; the Hawx does not do this.
- Shaman has no adjustable cuff canting, just 4 large screws into T-nuts, holding the cuff to the lowers. I like a fairly neutral boot upper, so I think this will work. I've had problems with cuff cant bolts loosening while skiing; the Hawx did this until I loctited the bolts.
- Shaman cuff is shorter than Hawx, but the liner is taller than Hawx.
- Shaman power strap attaches to outside of shell with screws (nice, easy to replace with Booster; no rivets to drill out.) Power strap wraps around front of boot solely on the liner, not on any part of the cuff.
- Shaman hardware is all attached with T-nuts and screws -- every buckle and catch. Beefy too. Hawx hardware is flimsy (sloppy after ~100 days) in comparison, lowers are all riveted-on, uppers are mix of rivet + screw. Hawx buckles are pointy (stupid design) and hurt to close tightly, unless wearing thick gloves.
- Shaman forward lean seems comparable to Hawx; fairly upright.
- Shaman zeppa is removable and a firm rubbery material, and plenty thick enough to grind if more vertical volume is needed. Appears to be flat (no arch hump), or fairly close to flat.
- Shaman liner is thin all around the foot, nicely padded around the shin and calf. Plastic reinforcements on the shin and calf. No indication if heat-moldable; I don't think it is.
- Shaman stock insole is typical flimsy throwaway crap.

This boot should work fine for a replacement for the Hawx. It's pretty close all-around in sizing, with the exception of the height of the liner, a slightly deeper heel pocket on the Shaman, and perhaps a little lower instep on the Shaman.

Hope it doesn't crack in 3 years like the Hawx...

[Kim Jong-un]

No indication if heat-moldable; I don't think it is.

Correct, not moldable.

Btw, if you are not bumping up against the sides on a shell fit, before you go punching the forefoot shell, I would try the Intuitions.

[El Chupacabra]

Correct, not moldable.

Btw, if you are not bumping up against the sides on a shell fit, before you go punching the forefoot shell, I would try the Intuitions.

I have maybe 2mm side-to-side clearance (total) at the metatarsals in a shell fit.

[DGamms]

Not to thread jack, but a quick question for Marshal since it appears he has tried both these boots: Shaman 27 vs Cochise Pro 27? Sizing, heel hold, forefoot volume, last, and flex comparisons? Obviously the Cochise has the walk mode and tech compatability that the Shamans lack, so I was hoping to replace my Shamans next year with the Cochise Pro if the downhill performance and fit were similar.

[El Chupacabra]

Threadjacking my own thread:

2 days now in the Shamans, no shell work. Stuck my insoles into the liners, replaced the power strap with a 3-layer Booster strap, and went skiing. Conditions: groomers, icy groomers, chickenheads, coral reef, crust, corn, moguls, rocks.

These are the best-fitting boots I have ever had. I may still need to punch out the sixth toe area, but I'm going to give it a few days to see if the liner packs out in that area -- it's a very thin liner around the foot, so it may never pack out with as much space as I'd like there.

As for the rest of the boot, it is perfect: like it was built for my feet. Wow. They are not too stiff; in skiing them, the flex is comparable to the Atomic Hawx 110 that I had, even in cold (18* F) temps.

[El Chupacabra]

Update, if anyone cares: had to do a small 6th toe punch, now the boots are perfect. Fit me like a glove, with stock liners (thin).

Toes get cold, but I can deal with that.

Easily the best-fitting boot I have ever had.

[skiing-in-jackson]

My son Blaze grew so much last season, he finished up in my old Garmont Shamans. He skied them the last 30-40 days of the season.

I removed all of the buckles, ladders and hardware and have them if anybody needs them. I even have the stock zeppas.

I'll send them for free with a generous JH swag bag!

[Kim Jong-un]

My son Blaze grew so much last season, he finished up in my old Garmont Shamans. He skied them the last 30-40 days of the season.

I removed all of the buckles, ladders and hardware and have them if anybody needs them. I even have the stock zeppas.

I'll send them for free with a generous JH swag bag!

SIJ, Nice offer. Still skiing mine, but I don't need any spares right now so if there's someone on here that does, go for it. But if no one comes forth, so they don't end up AWOL, I will take the buckles, etc. And if anyone has a future need for them, I will keep the inventory for any Shamanites. IIRC, the buckles are universal so the right boot and left boot are the same?

Since we're giving away Shaman parts today, if anyone needs a brand new set of the stock liners 27.5 for any reason, pm me.