Whitewolf here we come! Alpine + Squaw. Dreams can come true.

[The Dad]

Naah, Warren has me on hold. He's trying to conference me in with Bill, though.

[nickwm21]

Dear Squaw,

We want White Wolf and an open boundary policy with your $50m. Not restaurants, ride through caffeine, "Funi Cakes", a solly rental fleet, more signage, and new names for runs we already know the names of. Also, please replace Red Dog with a high speed, Granite does not need it.

Sincerely,

Someone who wished they got the Alpine/Kirkwood pass instead.

[splat]

Please put Granite to the top instead of replacing it in the same place.

[tahoearmada]

My Love/Hate relationship with squaw valley is nearing my personal limit... Hope that North Face store is enjoying our old spot... hopefully the sewer water still leaks on the time clock, wouldnt want north face employees to be any different than we were

Im gonna miss skiing there but I definitely wont miss much else other than some of the people

[davieboot]

Please put Granite to the top instead of replacing it in the same place.

I have heard this from a bunch of people, but I just don't get it. The peak is one of the few areas at Squaw that stays good for a while after a storm because the moderate hike keeps away the masses. I feel like it is a little slice of Alpine Meadows at Squaw, and I want to keep it that way.

[ilikecandy]

I have heard this from a bunch of people, but I just don't get it. The peak is one of the few areas at Squaw that stays good for a while after a storm because the moderate hike keeps away the masses. I feel like it is a little slice of Alpine Meadows at Squaw, and I want to keep it that way.

VIP, etc

doesnt make sense from a snow safety perspective either. it takes them long enough to get granite open right now - how many times have you been standing in line and heard them come by and tell you "one more pass" as they get on the chair? now imagine if they had to finish with the Peak before they could clear the chair. not to mention vis issues, frozen chairs, etc

[splat]

I don't recall the specifics of how much the uphill skier capacity will increase with an upgrade. I think they said it'd be less, but I'll be the last one to believe that. When Kirkwood upgraded chairs 4 and 6 from old doubles (maybe 6 was a triple) to a quad and a six pack, the terrain that is accessed by the chairs experienced a crushing increase of onhill traffic that flattened the amount of freshies that previously was available for days after a storm to diminish greatly. But you can still hike for what the majority doesn't if you want fresh pow. However, I have noticed an increase in traffic beyond the ropes at kw as well, with the runs getting tracked faster and more people getting uphill faster.

By going to the top of Granite and increasing acreage, even it did delay openings, it still calculates to some more fresh being obtainable after the first hour or two of opening. I also like the Euro way of putting lifts to the top of anything and opening everything. It's not like Squaw is gonna run out of places to hike or skin to on that side, though I don't know if it would compare. I think, simply for the sake of more pow servings per skier, change that expands verts and acres is good. Change that expands uphill capacity without extra terrain won't be. Kirkwood is an example. But I guess you had to be there to notice.

[The Dad]

IIRC, they're saying that going from the fixed-grip triple to the detachable quad will increase capacity by... 1/3. Which makes sense, when you realize that the limiting factor in number of chairs per hour is not rope speed but loading rate, and the only real way to change that is to increase seats per chair. That said, there seem to be fewer line stoppages with detachables, which may increase the actual capacity, rather than theoretical capacity, by more than the number of butts.

[splat]

Do it right, do it once. That's all I'm saying. It'd be a shame if Squaw later decided to put a short chair up the face of Granite Peak that, by virtue of it's short length and lappage potential, moguled it in 30 minutes. These are the sorts of things that can occur when what looks good on paper now ($) might be only replacing the top and bottom bullwheel/detach gear and tower tops. But it's also a time when a total reorientation of the chair might be the best move in the long run.

[StevieG]

I actually got surveyed at Squaw last winter. I thought as a Brittard my view might have had some touron credentials but I probably blew it when asked about the quality of grooming by saying I didn't really give a toss.

I of course missed the obvious by not identifying that better access to coffee while on skis was essential to decisions on where I wanted to spend my tourist $.

[ilikecandy]

IIRC, they're saying that going from the fixed-grip triple to the detachable quad will increase capacity by... 1/3. Which makes sense, when you realize that the limiting factor in number of chairs per hour is not rope speed but loading rate, and the only real way to change that is to increase seats per chair. That said, there seem to be fewer line stoppages with detachables, which may increase the actual capacity, rather than theoretical capacity, by more than the number of butts.

not sure i get this - are you saying that the greater distance between chairs on detachables balances out the greater speed? are you sure? seems to me that detachables load chairs more often, but i could definitely be wrong

Do it right, do it once. That's all I'm saying. It'd be a shame if Squaw later decided to put a short chair up the face of Granite Peak that, by virtue of it's short length and lappage potential, moguled it in 30 minutes. These are the sorts of things that can occur when what looks good on paper now ($) might be only replacing the top and bottom bullwheel/detach gear and tower tops. But it's also a time when a total reorientation of the chair might be the best move in the long run.

the other thing, and i already mentioned visibility, is wind. if it went to the top, there would be a LOT more wind/weather holds. not a great comparison because its so much more exposed, but think about how often granite is open but emigrant is not

[davieboot]

It's not like Squaw is gonna run out of places to hike or skin to on that side,

If it went to the top of the peak, there would be nothing to hike or skin to on that side of the mountain (unless the boundaries are wide open).

not sure i get this - are you saying that the greater distance between chairs on detachables balances out the greater speed? are you sure? seems to me that detachables load chairs more often, but i could definitely be wrong

Yes, this is something most people overlook. Not all lifts are the same, but 6 seconds/chair used to be the standard, regardless if you are on a fixed grip or quad. The uphill capacity is dictated by how many people can sit on a carrier. However, there is the issue of fewer stops.

the other thing, and i already mentioned visibility, is wind. if it went to the top, there would be a LOT more wind/weather holds. not a great comparison because its so much more exposed, but think about how often granite is open but emigrant is not

There are so many issues with putting a chair to the top of granite. When was the last time you were up there? It isn't exactly and ideal place for a top station. And then getting back to the saddle for all the folks who don't want to ski the face... well that isn't a cake walk either. Add that to the howling wind (way more windy than the saddle), visibility, and avy control work, and that lift does not open often.

[The Dad]

not sure i get this - are you saying that the greater distance between chairs on detachables balances out the greater speed?

Bottom line, yes. What I'm saying is that the limiting factor is how quickly you can get people positioned to load the chair, which is a fairly constant number of seconds. If you replace a fixed-grip lift with a detachable that moves twice as fast, even though each guest gets uphill twice as fast, the number of guests that can load or unload per hour remains constant.

[splat]

If it went to the top of the peak, there would be nothing to hike or skin to on that side of the mountain (unless the boundaries are wide open).

I'm assuming that is inevitable. As for wind, think Mt. Rose.
The wind trip on the Northwest chair used to be 84 mph.
It's skiing, not kite flying.
Honestly, I find the overall reluctance to such a change (other than ski-through coffee) here quite surprising.

[old goat]

Given that KSL's goal is to make SV more intermediate/touron friendly you don't really think they're going to run a chair up to Granite Peak do you? And maybe run Sibo up to the top of the Palisades too.

[splat]

I ain't goin' that far...and given the progress skiing itself has made, I guess it'll be a while before the resorts catch up. But given that Squaw was rather progressive when Alex first built it and remained that way for quite some time as the Cham of the US in terms of talent, the future will still reside in fresh pow availability and lifts to the steeps every bit as much or more as it will reside in the parks and pipes. Just my 2 cents. I'll quit ranting now. As long as they have chai lattes at the ski through coffee shop.

[ilikecandy]

I'm assuming that is inevitable. As for wind, think Mt. Rose.
The wind trip on the Northwest chair used to be 84 mph.
It's skiing, not kite flying.
Honestly, I find the overall reluctance to such a change (other than ski-through coffee) here quite surprising.

If they open the boundaries thats a game changer, although i personally dont think they will open a lot of the stuff i would actually want, eg skiers left of tram face or whitewolf

But they bomb the peak. For people who can ski granite all morning and then make 4-6 laps on the peak or VIP when they open it in the afternoon for instance, a chair to the top would mean less pow

[davieboot]

And maybe run Sibo up to the top of the Palisades too.

Going to the top of Granite is the same thing, maybe more so. However, the top of Palisades would be an ideal spot for a ski-thru coffee stand.

"3,2,1... dropping... with a latte..."

[old goat]

Going to the top of Granite is the same thing, maybe more so. However, the top of Palisades would be an ideal spot for a ski-thru coffee stand.

"3,2,1... dropping... with a latte..."

If they can get the FAA or whoever to level the top of Granite like they did with the Palisades the tie-dye guys could move their grill up there.

[guermo]

Announcement tomorrow!

[snapt]

...the plot thickens

[Sinecure]

I heard a rumor the announcement was coming today. We'll see. Now we can start propagating rumors about what changes are going to happen and when. Woohoo!

[stoepstyle]

Looks like its 100% official now

[thefrush]

Dreams can come true? I know it's just my selfish entitlement as a lifelong Alpine skier, but this is my nightmare. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[GrumpyPilot]

Dreams can come true? I know it's just my selfish entitlement as a lifelong Alpine skier, but this is my nightmare. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Ok what would this mean in the grand scheme of things? It isn't like you can just snap your fingers and connect the two mountains, it isn't that easy. Whitewolf isn't exactly easy to get to from Alpine and if you drop off of KT into Whitewolf then what? I guess you could hitchhike up the road to the Alpine parking lot. I'm pretty sure the area between Sun Bowl and Estelle Ridge is Wilderness Area, and if it isn't would require a lift or two to get from area to the other.

Plus, Alpine is selling the Alpine+Homewood+Kirkwood pass for this year. Going to have to operated as two separate areas for at least this year, then we will see.