Wasatch Conditions 10-11

[zion zig zag]

your posts continue to confound me

Made sense to me. Re-read the blurb on the UAC site regarding surface hoar (dictionary of terms), I think you may be confusing the fact that they stated surface hoar accounts for most accidents in the PNW with where/how/why it forms.

[ectreeskier11]

mostly was just the NH=maritime statement. i mean sure, it's close to the ocean but... maritime climate regarding snow safety is pretty damn opposite of the NH climate

[Trackhead]

Made sense to me. Re-read the blurb on the UAC site regarding surface hoar (dictionary of terms), I think you may be confusing the fact that they stated surface hoar accounts for most accidents in the PNW with where/how/why it forms.

Me too. Skiing the loud "hoar" is fun as hell.

[icelanticskier]

mostly was just the NH=maritime statement. i mean sure, it's close to the ocean but... maritime climate regarding snow safety is pretty damn opposite of the NH climate

nope.

rog

[TheMessenger]

Ok, just to clear things up

The most common types of avalanche instability-

Martime Snowpack- new snow instability
Continental Snowpack- persistent weak layer(suface/hoar frost, facets etc.)

The Wasatch is usually somewhere in the middle of these two depending on the year.

Lest you continue to spread your ignorance, take an avalanche class, before you get yourself or someone else killed in the backcountry.

[Trackhead]

Lest you continue to spread your ignorance, take an avalanche class, before you get yourself or someone else killed in the backcountry.

For the sake of argument, "taking an avalanche class" doesn't necessarily make one any less likely to get waxed in a slide. In many cases, it may actually lead to a false sense of awareness and an increase likelihood of getting waxed.

[TheMessenger]

Right, people should just go out with no knowledge or any idea what they are doing. Great idea!

[icelanticskier]

For the sake of argument, "taking an avalanche class" doesn't necessarily make one any less likely to get waxed in a slide. In many cases, it may actually lead to a false sense of awareness and an increase likelihood of getting waxed.

getting out there often with a trusted conservative snow vet is crucial to learning about snow. learn safe travel techniques, features, traps, keeping slope angles low, and learning to stay out of the way from looming hangfire and flying hippies above you is some important stuff.

books are good for reading, snow is just as good for reading and better for sliding on. best way to learn snow is to get out and walk in it with yer pole pokin at it and yer eyes open every day if ya can. keep angles low.

rog

[shera]

Since the wasatch really is a new range for me, I want to pick a spot to dig pits and watch the pack over the coming season. I like the same vicinity/aspect so I can watch it build and morph storm by storm. Here in colorado I would pick a face that is easterly just below treeline, but I wonder about there. True north would be more likely to keep interesting layers, yes?

[shera]

trackhead, you already thinking about the pfeiff?

shera, welcome to the cottonwood canyons.

to the op: yeah people read the threads and decide where to go but some of that is due to safety concerns (conditions). gotta take the good with the bad. so far the good outweighs the bad, imo.

Thank you. I'm starting to walk around here and get my legs. Lazy summer but I hope to be pretty strong by the time I get there.

[shera]

One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?

[Trackhead]

One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?

UDOT has one published somewhere on the internet.

[DLD in UT]

SheRa, I'm sure some mags on here have better ones, but this is a start for you.
http://www.avalanchemapping.org/IMAGES/litcotweb.pdf

[Christopher3000]

Rog vs. ECtreeskier: one I've been waiting for.

Meltfreeze/windcrust to 11K at 5 pm yesterday. Plus, a lot of this:



It is worth noting for those of you not concerned with what began as a slim base, the measured total at the Collins stake is down to 22 inches. That is not much snow.

[wildskizer]

Me too. Skiing the loud "hoar" is fun as hell.

Yup,...I always thought 'Surface Hoar' was not a problem,...UNTIL,... It becomes
"DEPTH HOAR"...

[ectreeskier11]

It is worth noting for those of you not concerned with what began as a slim base, the measured total at the Collins stake is down to 22 inches. That is not much snow.

looks like we may have dodged a bullet, the vast majority of this snow should melt in the next week or so

[backcountryben]

Yup,...I always thought 'Surface Hoar' was not a problem,...UNTIL,... It becomes
"DEPTH HOAR"...

I'm certainly not an expert on this stuff, but my understanding is that buried surface hoar is generally referred to as just that - buried surface hoar (or hoar layers). Depth hoar is what forms due to vapor transport processes/temperature gradients in the snowpack....

(basically if it formed on the surface, it's surface hoar, if it formed inside the snowpack, it's depth hoar)

[Slaag Master]

pics from day 2 at alta - did laps off wildcat ridge all day then came down west of rock gully - the pow was heavier but still fantastic

[ectreeskier11]

slaag you still want those fatypus's? they're haggard but yours if you think you can figure out how to mount them!

[Slaag Master]

hell ya! i can mount anything! send them to
Andrew Hardy
8185 Oak Creek Dr
Cottonwood Heights
ut 84093

i am living in a garage and don't have mailbox privileges.
thanks dude. what did you do to your pelvis? will you be here this winter?

[ectreeskier11]

i don't need to mail them haha i live on foothill just north of 80. i'll let you know next time i'm headed down (ski season should start for me in 2 weeks or so). pelvis was "minor" setback, just a little mtb accident but i'll be good to shred.

[Slaag Master]

i can ride my bike over if you like

[ectreeskier11]

i can ride my bike over if you like

let me know when, i work from home so i'm around a lot. foothill place apts.

[icelanticskier]

Since the wasatch really is a new range for me, I want to pick a spot to dig pits and watch the pack over the coming season. I like the same vicinity/aspect so I can watch it build and morph storm by storm. Here in colorado I would pick a face that is easterly just below treeline, but I wonder about there. True north would be more likely to keep interesting layers, yes?

you'll find some cool stuff at all elevations/aspects all season long. visit them all. a good place to start would be the twin lakes pass area, north facing patsy, s/sw/w facing east emma, and east facing off of pass. with very little walking you'll see/poke at a bunch of different snow types and see very quickly how the snow changes in a very short distance. plus you get some fun laps in and around there as well. close to the bar. some days after doing a white/pink/red pine tour, i'd drive up past the ski hill and crooze up to the pass for sunset and farm any of north facing patsy that was left untracked. easy croozer back down the road at tours end.

yer gonna love it.

rog

[Mark H]

One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?

I think I still have that PDF. I'll post it when I find it.

I worked with Drew Hardesty at the Utah Avalanche Center to produce avalanche maps of all the major drainages in the Cottonwoods. The maps show the most frequent slide paths, give detailed information about the topography and other characteristics, and give an overall rating for the area:

Simple: i.e. Mill D

Challenging: i.e. Flagstaff

Complex: i.e. Argenta

Unfortunately the cheif avalanche officers in Montana said we couldn't release the "Challenging" and "Complex" maps to the public for liability reasons. They also shot down our idea of creating a dynamic map for the website that would give hazard ratings to specific areas for a given day.

Last time I checked with Drew he said the "Simple" maps of areas such as Mill D and Main Porter Fork will be released but not sure when. We were thinking of distributing them to places like REI. The idea is to let the public know where they can be safe in the backcountry regardless of the conditions.