GUNS!!!!!!!!

[Jer]

I kinda screwed up on the rings, I wish I'd have gotten them a touch taller, the charging handle is tougher to get to.

You can get a "tactical" latch from Badger Ordinance (and probably quite a few other companies) for about $15. It replaces the little latch on the charge handle and makes it much easier to pull when you've got an eyepiece in the way.

Y'know what tends to freak out people who are scared of guns even more than "assault" rifles? Camouflaged assault rifles.

[zion zig zag]

The tactical latches are a necessity. Makes it possible to charge with the palm of your left hand without coming out of fighting stance or taking your finger off the trigger.

[BobMc]

Has anyone run any of the Russian steel case ammo (cheap) through their AR10? (I'm mainly looking at you Jer.)

I've got a few boxes on the way from Cheaperthandirt.com. The reviews on the page run the gamut from "shoots great!" to basically "your gun will explode and you will die!" I'm looking for stuff that I can fling out a lot of rounds cheaply. I want something that feeds nicely, leaves my bolt open on the last round, and doesn't carbon up the gun too bad.

I'll find out soon enough on Labor Day weekend, but curious of others experiences.

[waxman]

isn't most of the russian stuff corrosive?
why would you run low octane gas through a sports car?

[BobMc]

From the item descriptions it's supposed to be non-corrosive primers. At this point I'm not concerned about MOA and since I'll be cleaning it extensively afterwards I'm not all that concerned over cleanliness.

What I'm looking for is ammo that will hit a paper plate at 200 yards (notwithstanding my lack of skills), hold the bolt open after the last round, and feed reliably without stuck or stovepiped shells.

I'm not looking to take the sports car around corners, I want to slam into the freaking wall.

[leroy jenkins]

From the item descriptions it's supposed to be non-corrosive primers. At this point I'm not concerned about MOA and since I'll be cleaning it extensively afterwards I'm not all that concerned over cleanliness.

What I'm looking for is ammo that will hit a paper plate at 200 yards (notwithstanding my lack of skills), hold the bolt open after the last round, and feed reliably without stuck or stovepiped shells.

I'm not looking to take the sports car around corners, I want to slam into the freaking wall.

8" paper plate at 200 is 4moa, that is considered the acceptable standard for most standard issue military rifles. If you have a decent rifle, this shouldnt be a problem, even with the russian stuff. If your rifle isnt the greatest accuracy wise, you may have to use something a bit better.

I have a sig 556 that will hit 4" targets at 300 yards with decent ammo (55gr fiocchi), it will still hit around 8" at 200, ussually. The cheaper ammo does have more fliers.

Same with the reliability, although I wouldnt want something that couldnt feed steel cased stuff.

Even if it isnt corrosive, the steel cased stuff is realy dirty. I've run a bunch through my 556 and a mini 14, pretty reliable in both

[AKPogue]

Have never used an AR10 but have used the stuff in a M4. Make sure it doesn't have any rust on it. I had a casing get stuck so bad in a rifle that I had to take a cleaning rod, put the cleaning rod down the barrel and hammer the cleaning rod against the concrete. Thank god it wasn't a weapon that I paid for. After that experience I will never run that stuff through a rifle again. Not worth it to me.

[TNKen]

Here's my metal cased Russian story.

Have an HK53. Like an MP5 on steriods in .223. Tried a case of the Russian steel cased, with a laquer finish. Well, the steel cases are hard when compared to brass, broke my extractor and bent the ejector. Laquer melted when the round was fired and plugged up the micro-groves in the chamber, i.e. no blowback gas and thus no cycling.

I saved $50 bucks on ammo and ended up having to send it to an HK gunsmith to fix. Total cost of repairs about $300.

Lots of guys shoot it. Most of us don't shoot enough to offset the expense.

If you spent that kind of money on a nice rifle, I'll sell you some brass cased .308 at a reasonable price.

Or go here http://wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|830|848

Don't screw up your investment with cheap steel ammo.

[Jer]

Has anyone run any of the Russian steel case ammo (cheap) through their AR10? (I'm mainly looking at you Jer.)

I've got a few boxes on the way from Cheaperthandirt.com. The reviews on the page run the gamut from "shoots great!" to basically "your gun will explode and you will die!" I'm looking for stuff that I can fling out a lot of rounds cheaply. I want something that feeds nicely, leaves my bolt open on the last round, and doesn't carbon up the gun too bad.

I'll find out soon enough on Labor Day weekend, but curious of others experiences.

Nooooooo!!!!! I run handloads only (Winchester case/WLR primer/44gr Varget/168gr SMK)*. I shoot mainly 200-800 yards, so I'm looking for accuracy foremost. My theory has always been that steel cased Russian ammo works ok in Russian designed rifles. Steel case ammo (in my experience at least) feeds great and is plenty reliable, but steel cases cause inconsistent pressure which in turn really affects accuracy. I would not worry about it blowing up and killing you, and it is the way to go if you want to send a bazillion rounds downrange (I still shoot mainly Wolf in my AK even though it shoots Fiocchi brass-cased/Boxer primed better), but if you want to hit a small object regularly at 100+ yards you should at least pick up some decent brass cased factory ammo. When I was breaking in my barrel, I shot a bunch of Federal 150 grain. All that said, you should be able to hit a paper plate with that rifle and steel cased ammo at 200 yards no problem.

You have essentially the same rifle I have - they are made in the same factory. It should be capeable of shooting 1 MOA after about 200 rounds (using good ammo). Remember to polish the contact points on the mags - they still come from the factory with rough edges.




*Switching to 175 gr. SMK as soon as the current lot is spent.

[BobMc]

Thanks for the replies and advices. I'm probably gonna stash the steel case stuff in the back of a closet. I just ordered 200 rounds of the German surplus stuff from the Widener place, thanks for the link Ken. That stuff works out to .46 per shell, which is manageable for my shoot the hell out of things plans.

We blew up watermelons last weekend. (which were quite spectacular!) I'm not too fond of shooting paper for results, I like shooting for effect. I'm already planning on shooting the requisite water filled milk jugs, and also thinking of perhaps freezing one? Anyone have any other cheap targets that are fun to blow up?

Jer, which points of contact are you polishing, and with what type of medium? I was having some feed problems last weekend (first time out with it), it didn't want to pick up the first shell very well. Once it picked up that first one it cycled everything nicely. (except for the lack of a locked bolt after the last round on some ammo.) I've got a 19 round mag that should be here tomorrow, I'm interested in seeing if that one picks up shells better.

I did throw some rem-oil into it tonight and it seems to be picking up the shells now. I still get nervous loading live shells into that thing in my house, so I didn't try too many times.

And yeah, I'm kind of a gun jong. I bought my last guns (Marlin .22 and a Mossberg 20 gauge) when I was 17 years old, which was quite some time ago. I even hunted a bit back in those days, but then lost the urge. My boy is 13 now and wants to deer hunt next year. So, I figured I'd get something that would kill deer effectively, be a decent "investment", and work really well at killing humans should SHTF.

Labor Day weekend should be a hoot.

[TNKen]

Cabbage heads are good targets too, cheaper than watermelons.

.

[Jer]

Polish pretty much every edge forward of where the case shoulder would be if you had the mag loaded up - mainly the two little side tabs and the front edge. Sandpaper works ok, a dremel with one of those non-metal abrasive grinders works faster. You don't need to round anything off - just de-burr the edges and make everything nice and smoove. People used to (and still do) complain about DPMS rifles jamming a lot, but it's the mags, not the rifles. I can't figure out why they don't polish out the mags at the factory - I'd think that would save them the bad rep. The failure to lock open is weird - never had that happen, and I load rounds singly (y'know - slow-fire style) all the time.

Never tried frozen jugs. I shoot steel plate a lot - you can blast away at steel all day long and not have to end up walking 15 miles, although it doesn't blow up reel good like water jugs do.

You could always try this:



WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[waxman]

nice video:
-obligitory Pilsener to get the antis all riled up
-pretty close to the tank as they tend to rocket off when pierced

[BobMc]

Frozenwater and I tried the propane tank thing a few years ago. We didn't have a fire nearby, so all we ended up with was a propane cylinder flying around. It was rather anticlimactic.

[Jer]

Frozenwater and I tried the propane tank thing a few years ago. We didn't have a fire nearby, so all we ended up with was a propane cylinder flying around. It was rather anticlimactic.

Luckily now that you have a .308/7.62 NATO you can buy tracers!

[Jumper Bones]

I've shot propane tanks with tracers. No result.

I find the little valu-paks of camping-stove-sized ones are the best bang for the buck. It's also a relatively small fireball (15 ft or so) that burns out pretty quick, still good boom but you don't risk burning the whole fucking forest down.

[leroy jenkins]

Luckily now that you have a .308/7.62 NATO you can buy tracers!

Comeon jer, I thought youd know these things.

You can buy TRACERS but you cant buy military grade INCENDIARY tracers. Civilian tracers are a non burning chemical that glows without creating heat. Pretty lame really.

[MrDirt]

Has anyone tried David Tubb's Final Finish System? It's basically a box of bullets coated with varying levels of abrasive compound to polish the barrel. I read about it in a chuck hawks article:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm

Seems like a hell of a product!

[waxman]

what are you going to use it on? some barrel makers will void your warranty if you use it or an type of lapping agent on their barrels
it shouldn't matter on a factory remchesteruger but you could probably get the same results with a proper bore guide/cleaning rod/JB paste/lapping compound set up

[bmg97]

Has anyone run any of the Russian steel case ammo (cheap) through their AR10? (I'm mainly looking at you Jer.)

I've got a few boxes on the way from Cheaperthandirt.com. The reviews on the page run the gamut from "shoots great!" to basically "your gun will explode and you will die!" I'm looking for stuff that I can fling out a lot of rounds cheaply. I want something that feeds nicely, leaves my bolt open on the last round, and doesn't carbon up the gun too bad.

I'll find out soon enough on Labor Day weekend, but curious of others experiences.

I would be careful with the steel. I bought a bunch of Brown Bear ammo and it was okay until I went shooting in he heat. The rounds are coated in lacquer to stop the rusting and it was causing my AR15 to constantly jam. I was also asked at the range if I like my gun ? I said yep ! He than said if you like your gun don't shoot steel rounds. Now I have about 400 rounds left of that shit.

[MrDirt]

I actually hadn't planned on using it with anything right now, I just thought it seemed like a neat product for a great price and wanted to post the info. I plan on buying LeeC's .264, but I imagine a rifle with a nice custom barrel would not see much improvement with something like this. I'm also planning to buy a Rem 700 or Weatherby Sub-MOA varmint rifle over the winter and I'd probably try this product with something like that.

[BobMc]

My wife is really starting to dislike this whole gun thing.

When I bought my rifle I picked up the on-sale Cabelas scope for it. After I let the sticker shock of the gun itself wear off on my wife I'm hoping to upgrade the optics a bit.

I've been sorta/kinda joking with her that I need an effective sighting device. This of course is met with stern looks and complaints of a clothes dryer that needs replacing.

I'm somewhat torn on what to get, (optics wise, not dryer). My two interests are either an Eotech with a 3x magnifier, or an ACOG. Neither option is cheap, but the Eotech is a couple hundred bucks cheaper.

Uses for either sight would be mainly plinking, limited use hunting, and as a MBR in an EOTWAWKI scenario. (I've been reading way too many survival blogs researching this whole gun stuff)

I've heard the Eotech stuff is fantastic in sub 100 yard distances, but the ACOG is great all around. I like the simplicity of the ACOG, but like the strengths of the Eotech for shorter distances. Has anyone tried the 3x multiplier with an Eotech? If so, does it compare to an ACOG at distance? Or, I'm open to any other optic package suggestions.

I'd post these questions on some of the boards I found, but quite frankly those people kinda scare me. I'm scared I'll get sucked in even deeper, last night I was checking the prices of wheat grinders...

[Loon]

^^^ the next time wifey brings up clothes dryer, your response should be.
"YOU EVER HEAR OF A CLOTHSLINE BITCH, now make me a sandwich"
Dammit Bob, put some fucking pants on, this is the gun thread

[AKPogue]

Bob,

You really can't go wrong with either choice. The only way you are going to figure it out is to shoot it yourself. See if you can find someone that has them and try them out. They both are pretty popular sights that it shouldn't be that hard. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this, but the best thing about buying gun stuff is that they don't lose much value at all as long as you take care of it. You can tell your wife that you won't be able to sell that dryer for the price you paid for it in a couple of years. Hell in 10 years the gun and sight will probably appreciate but not enough to do it as an investment.

Also look for a used one, no real reason to buy new.

[AKPogue]

Want to add one more thing for Bob. If you are thinking survival situation than you should go ACOG. ACOG has no batteries.