At least 3 dead, 15 injured after B.C. avalanche

[PaulB]

I don't think the backcountry will be regulated but what is going to happen is licensing and insurance for sleds and quads. This should have happened ages ago- they are motorized vehicles, they are driven like other motorized vehicles are. I don't see how it's a hassle- you have a license to drive your car, and they are required to drive boats, same thing, adds a level of accountability and maybe funding towards fixing the stuff that goes wrong.

According to ICBC, snowmobiles already need to be registered and, in some cases, licensed and insured as well. The license / insurance requirement is obviously aimed at the traditional trail riders as opposed to the mountain sledders. I'd guess that neither is regularly checked or enforced unless a sled gets into an accident with a motor vehicle or pedestrian.

All snowmobiles must be registered, no matter what they are used for or where they're used.

To register your snowmobile, go to any driver licensing centre (except Expressways).

When it's registered, you will be issued two reflective decals. These must be displayed on both sides of the snowmobile.

A snowmobile must be licensed and insured if

* it will be crossing a road that the public has access to drive on, or
* it is used in a parking lot.

Before you can license and insure your snowmobile, you must obtain an Operation Permit. This permit states where and when the snowmobile may cross a road. It must be kept with your snowmobile at all times.

For more information about operation permits, or to get one for your snowmobile, please contact your local law enforcement agency.

Once the snowmobile has been registered and has its permit, you can apply to license and insure it, as required by the Motor Vehicle Act. You can do this at any Autoplan broker.

For snowmobiles, a restricted licence plate is issued. The restricted plate shows that the vehicle's use on a highway is limited. (The Operation Permit explains what its use is limited to.)

[GeezerSteve]

I am not an alarmist at all. . . .

Really? Here's what you and BCIL said in response to hearing a quip on CBC that the RCMP has commenced an inquiry:

This is a VERY dangerous precident to try to set.

wow. That's scary. * * *
Those of you on skis should be frightened as well, if this was to take hold, it could have EXTREME ramifications in the backcountry community.

Seems alarmist to me. But maybe that cuz I'm weary of the fearmongering I hear on a daily basis, often from people with insufficient information who have a manifest bias against any governmental action (other than launching unprovoked wars or feeding the military-industrial complex).

When 200 people assemble on public land, 2 of them die violent deaths and 15 are injured, it's govt's job to conduct an inquiry, for chrissake.

[teamdirt]

I'm from Alberta and already have insurance, liscence and registration on my sled. How does this prevent me from getting in avalanches?

[LeeLau]

I'm from Alberta and already have insurance, liscence and registration on my sled. How does this prevent me from getting in avalanches?

Doesn't do a thing. The thinking behind it is that it acts as a deterrent. But to what? It doesn't make sense

[powder11]

from today's Vancouver Sun article:

The executive director of the B.C. Snowmobile Federation said snowmobilers have a personal right to ignore avalanche warnings and shouldn't be subject to more regulation.

[LeeLau]

I don't see the problem with having the personal right to ignore avalanche warnings. It's phrased poorly but that's the optics behind the current lynching mood

[shirk]

I don't see the problem with having the personal right to ignore avalanche warnings. It's phrased poorly but that's the optics behind the current lynching mood

That one liner is taken out of context, somewhere in this thread is a link to the full set of comment and it's about personal rights. He went on to say that education is a much better option than regulation.

I still have some faith that our government will choose the path of education over regulation.

[backcountryislife]

Really? Here's what you and BCIL said in response to hearing a quip on CBC that the RCMP has commenced an inquiry:

Seems alarmist to me. But maybe that cuz I'm weary of the fearmongering I hear on a daily basis, often from people with insufficient information who have a manifest bias against any governmental action (other than launching unprovoked wars or feeding the military-industrial complex).

When 200 people assemble on public land, 2 of them die violent deaths and 15 are injured, it's govt's job to conduct an inquiry, for chrissake.

I would sure hope they're going to conduct an inquiry. As you said, if people lose their lives it's their requirement to do this.
I just stated that the idea of the sledder being held liable for the deaths is a frightening thing because I can see where this could lead to. I didn't say it was going to happen for god sake, but the idea of that IS pretty scary.

[sparkletarte.]

Sleds registed, yes, but that's different than carrying liability insurance on them. I'm not so sure that many are licensed.

BC does backcountry closures when the fire hazard is too high in the summer- it's happened out here once for sure, maybe twice in the last seven years or so. I wonder if they would think of something similar for avy hazard. I agree, I don't want to see that. There are safe ways to be in the backcountry when the avy hazard is high. You could argue the same for high fire hazard. Fires obviously have the potential to cause much more wilderness and property damage, although this avy did too, to lives.

[jamesp]

FWIW.. this is the most recent press release from the RCMP & presumably is the source of the CBC comments. From here http://bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?si...ontentId=13857.




2010-03-16 07:18 PDT File # 2010-832

The search and recovery effort on Boulder Mountain was completed and concluded Monday afternoon March 15th, 2010, with officials re-opening access to the area.

The search was stood down after Search and Rescue teams, which included 4 Canadian Avalanche Rescue Dogs Association teams (CARDA) and 1 RCMP avalanche trained Police Service Dog team found no further sign of persons remaining trapped.

“Again we have to recognize and thank the countless resources from a variety of public safety emergency personnel, including a large team of volunteers who all in a moments notice committed themselves to the emergency effort. These are all British Columbians from a variety of communities who came when called to respond. All are saddened by the deaths, which occurred and offer their condolences to the families affected.

“All recognize, that we were prepared to respond to the worst case scenario. This preparation included, the setting up of a large temporary morgue at a private air hangar. It is with a feeling of great relief and somewhat disbelief, that all we saw it utilized for was for the safe storage of broken snowmobiles waiting to be retrieved by owners and not with rows of bodies waiting to be identified by loved ones,”…Cpl Dan Moskaluk

The RCMP Southeast District Major Crimes Unit has been assigned to the investigation. A team of 10 investigators arrived Monday afternoon to commence their tasks into examining the March 13th snowmobiling deaths of the 2 Alberta males and the injuries to numerous persons on Boulder Mountain, Revelstoke.

“The aim of the investigation is to gather all available information regarding this incident, with a purview that includes the death of Shay Snortland, Kurtis Reynolds and the injuries to persons which occurred at Boulder Mountain on March 13th”, stated Cpl Moskaluk.

“If evidence to support a charge under the Criminal Code is obtained, a report will be forwarded to Crown Counsel recommending criminal charges. Given the number of people that attended this event, and the uniqueness of the circumstances, it will be a lengthy and complex investigation. Seeing that we are dedicated to completing a thorough investigation, it will take some time to complete” added Cpl Moskaluk.

[Shorty_J]

Really? Here's what you and BCIL said in response to hearing a quip on CBC that the RCMP has commenced an inquiry:

Seems alarmist to me. But maybe that cuz I'm weary of the fearmongering I hear on a daily basis, often from people with insufficient information who have a manifest bias against any governmental action (other than launching unprovoked wars or feeding the military-industrial complex).

When 200 people assemble on public land, 2 of them die violent deaths and 15 are injured, it's govt's job to conduct an inquiry, for chrissake.

Really? Because I was responding to comments made by someone (who's name and title escaped me at the time of listening) that there has been discussion of the possibility of charging those who were on the slope and caused the avalanche... not just to the fact that the RCMP is conducting an inquiry. I have no problem at all with an enquiry, I think it's great... it will increase awareness. I do have a problem with the discussions on liability, much more in regards to an individual causing a slide than the event organizer. How is it fearmongering, and what makes you think I have a manifest bias against the government? Fuck, I'm practically a socialist and would like to see more government in many situations... what the hell does that have to do with being worried about the liability of someone causing a slide?

Read my post again... I never suggested the end of the world is nigh, but I did suggest that I'm uncomfortable with even the suggestion that a person causing an avalanche be held liable for that, and the implications of that for all of us. This is a discussion and I offered that topic up for discussion based on something I heard on the radio, and you didn't. It's YOU that is assuming everything else, for some reason.

Actually comment and discuss the issue or keep your assumptions and judgements of me as a person to yourself... this is the fucking internet and you don't know shit about me.

[gorgeskier]

One other issue that no one has brought up that may be of some interest.

I think that for the average sledder at a popular spot like Boulder (300 sleds per day on weekends) the chance of misreading conditions is high. I have talked to guys who sled there and after a week without snow that place is as hard as a rock from all of the 500lb sleds running over it. This means on the majority of slopes there is no surface hoar, no nothing - more akin to a ski hill.

Even comparing it to a heli ski op where they nuke their safe runs every time it snows to keep it safe doesn't compare to the compaction that these sleds put down.

Thus, I would say 99% of the main slopes are pretty safe eventhough the risk everywhere else is through the roof.

I haven't seen any reports of any other avalanches (smaller) while the event was going on in other bowls, but it seems to me that if something did happen that people wouldn't have moved to a bigger, badder hill (but I could be wrong, some sledders defy logic).

Thus these guys sled all day long on some pretty steep terrain and nothing moves giving them a false sense of security. The instant they get on something that hasn't been pounded to oblivion - boom - we have a medium size avy that causes 2 fatalities.

Maybe I am wrong but I do know sledders who think this way (sled compaction makes it safer)...

[gorgeskier]

that the sledders watching in the middle of a runout path are heros!

sure some of them were very good in organizing the search, etc but come on why were they there in the first place as Erik said:


It’s time to honor the heros.
Written by Susie Rainsberry
March 15, 2010

It’s been several days now since the tragic avalanche at Turbo Hill. The latest reports are that two are deceased and three are still hospitalized. The media is also reporting that there were 200 snowmobilers at Turbo at the time of the slide. The avalanche is reported to have been up to 150 meters wide and 10 meters deep. That, my friends, is a BIG avalanche!

I’d like to put some perspective on this – a snowmobiler’s perspective. Apparently no one in the media is a snowmobiler or is concerned about taking the time to gather the facts – not just the bad, but the good as well. And there is good to be heard in this story. If you ask a snowmobiler – they’d be able to tell you what that is. But either the media isn’t asking, or has heard it and doesn’t feel that the facts are newsworthy.

However, I feel these facts are the MOST newsworthy topic of this entire tragedy.

Saturday afternoon, following the close of the events for the annual Big Iron Shootout, a large group of snowmobilers headed to Turbo Bowl to make a run at the hill. As the riders lined up at the bottom of the hill, the mass of spectators parked their sleds and prepared to enjoy the show. As one of the sleds turned out towards the top, the hillside gave way. Thundering down the mountain it came – taking sleds and riders with it. This powerful act of nature happens in a split second. There is no time to react.

The time to react is as soon as it stops. And react – with speed and knowledge – in the midst of chaos – is what those sledders did. There were no typical first responders to this catastrophe in the immediate moments following the avalanche. Only snowmobilers. Those same snowmobilers that the media is painting with a broad stroke as crazy, ignorant, thrill-seekers.

As a back country snowmobiler myself, I can tell you that ignorant is not a word that I would use to describe those survivors. I would call them heroes! And justly so. In the midst of what may have been the most terrifying minutes of their lives, they turned their avalanche beacons to search, they got out their probes and their shovels and they started rescue protocols IMMEDIATELY – likely while in a state of shock. They dug out those that were buried, they triaged the injured, they administered first aid, they built fires to keep them warm until the helicopters arrived. These people were heroic!! Without their quick and educated responses, many more people would have died.

I am angered that the media is so eager to report this story that they are being so disgraceful to the victims and survivors. These people need support and compassion. They do not need to be stereotyped and degraded in the media or by anyone else. Shame on you!! Didn’t your mother teach you better manners than that?

I’m not done though – there is way more information about snowmobilers in respect to the Big Iron Shootout and Revelstoke that the media hasn’t covered yet. While they gleefully report that this is an unsanctioned (I’ll get to that in a moment) event drew 200 sledders (despite the grave warnings from the avalanche center), what they aren’t telling you is that there are likely double that number of snowmobilers who DIDN’T attend this year’s event – because of the conditions. Snowmobilers who DID heed the warnings.

As I was reading the snowmobiling forums and Facebook on Saturday evening, the same story continued to repeat itself – people concerned about friends who generally attend the BIS, those friends checking in and saying they didn’t go this year, or they were in the area but avoided Turbo Bowl because of the warnings and the conditions they were already aware of. You see, back country snowmobilers are often in the back country two or more days a week and already have first hand insight to the conditions.

Regarding the word being used in almost every story – unsanctioned. It is true that there is no sanctioning organization for this event. Not the town of Revelstoke nor the Revelstoke Snowmobile Club. However, just because it’s not sanctioned does not mean that it is illegal.

Snowmobilers often gather in large groups to ride with friends who are generally dispersed all over Canada and the United States. I personally rode with a group of 30 riders at an “unsanctioned” event in Wyoming. Oops! I also rode at another “unsanctioned” event, ummm, better make that two, here in Oregon. Rest assured, I am not a criminal nor are any of the snowmobilers that I know.

The internet keeps the snowmobiling community connected. There are 1,000s of unsanctioned events that simply start by someone saying, “hey – who wants to ride this weekend?” Next thing ya know, word spreads about how much fun everyone had and it snowballs from there (pun intended). They grow into these annual events…”same date next year?”

So, here’s what happens next – the date is set. Motel rooms are reserved. Trucks and sleds are fueled. Vacation time is requested. Then individuals, families and social groups all head into a remote mountain town. They buy. They buy. They buy a lot!! They spend money – because they can.

It is with great sadness that I have to dispel the myth that mountain snowmobilers are a bunch of rednecks. All you really need to do is add up the costs to outfit an individual – much less an entire family – with a sled and the proper safety gear. Since this article is really targeted at those individuals who are not mountain sledders, I will point out that everything – got that?…EVERYTHING, on your person and on your sled is part and parcel of your survival gear. From your gloves, to your coat, to the sunglasses in your backpack. Trying to save a dime in buying a coat is really not advised, when that coat may be the only thing protecting you from the elements if you have to stay overnight. With all that said, here’s a run down of estimated costs of the primary accessories needed to sled in the back country.

• Sled $6,000-$14,000 USD
• Clothes (including base, mid and outer layers – top & bottom) $800-$1,200 USD
• Boots/gloves/helmet $245-$800 USD
• Backpack (non-avy) $60-$120 USD
• Backpack (avy) $1,000-$1,200 USD
• Body armor (tek vest, knee pads, etc) $60-$300 USD
• Beacon, probe, shovel $250-$400 USD

This doesn’t include a lot of items, such as matches, radios, compass, fire starter, flashlight, and the list goes on, and the costs add up. It would be GREATLY appreciated if the media would STOP perpetuating the myths that sledders are ignorant, beer-swilling, couch-potatoes. Because it’s simply not true.

The fact is that mountain sledders do not fit a stereotypical mold. They come from all areas of the business world…from CEOs to millworkers. They have families and they are single. They are old and they are young. They are world-class athletes and they are physically handicapped. They survive corporate down-sizing, cancer, divorces, etc….just like everyone else.

The thing that binds us together is our great love for the back country in the winter. We are modern day adventurers. We want to get out there – in the mountains. We want to explore and play and wonder at the beauty. We love the snow! When it covers the trees, when it flies up in our faces, when it gives us a playground of vast proportions. That is when we are in heaven. That is when our souls glow.

We are not anything that the media will have tried to make us out to be in the last couple of days. We are so much more. It’s truly a pity that the media isn’t interested in shining any light on the truth.

The truth is - the Turbo Bowl avy survivors are HEROS. We in the snowmobiling communities – far and wide – are praying for the full recovery of those injured, in body and in spirit. And finally, with great compassion and sympathy we extend our heartfelt condolences to the families of those who perished.

I wrote this and I am Susie Rainsberry, Oregon resident, back-country snowmobiler. I provide free and complete liberty for others to share and disperse this message. The time has come to stop the slandering of good individuals just because they ride snowmobiles.

[JoeStrummer]

Susie poured it on a bit thick, I think. Modern day adventurers? Sir Ranulph Fiennes is a modern-day adventurer. Joe Simpson is a modern-day adventurer. These people are just wanking about for some weekend laughs, like 99% of us.

Anyway, at the end of all that hero talk, I was expecting Oskar Schindler to hop off a Polaris and trade his lapel pin for probes and shovels.

[LeeLau]

Its a reaction to media lynch mob mentality and to a particular public psyche that finds simple pleasure in painting all sledders as the amorphous homogenous "extreme" high-tailing smoke-huffing crowd.

Although it is a embarassingly one-sided view of the events; cant deny that

[backcountryislife]

Although a bit on the heavy side & rather one sided (as if nobody has heard the other side) they did extract a rather large amount of people rather quickly. That in itself IS pretty impressive, to get that quantity of people to work together.

In any other tragedy what she wrote would be obvious & would have already have been mentioned. Because of the poor decision making of most of the riders to be there, that is all the media has focused on.

[srsosbso]

I have talked to guys who sled there and after a week without snow that place is as hard as a rock from all of the 500lb sleds running over it. This means on the majority of slopes there is no surface hoar, no nothing - more akin to a ski hill.

This is interesting. Certainly similiar (and quite reasonable) thinking is applied to various local slack-country skiing in these parts. I've read different enough things about this incident to probably have it wrong by this point, but is it true that the main event was on one of these sled-compacted slopes, whereas the avalanche occurred at a different spot? That might suggest that the main event was not quite so ridiculous an idea as it might have seemed, whereas heading up this other slope might have been ill-advised.

[XXX-er]

If you read snow & mud.com there was only ONE guy who said wait a minute we did something wrong here

the rest are saying great recovery,we are all heros ,sledders stick togetehr , they died doing domething they love yada yada ...susie rainsbury covers it all


The out come of this right or wrong doesnt matter what you think will be the sledders are gona lose something ... amid all the hype ,TV coverage,"POSSIBLE " criminal activity its THE best time for the gov to fuck with them

AND they seem to have lots of money ... so get some of it eh?

[mtnbiker/boarder]

^^^^^why make it seem like becuase sledders have some money one should try to goven them even more //last i checked skiing is an expensive sport as well....as a skier and a sledder, well if you govern one better govern both as far as back country access is concerned.......

[sparkletarte.]

they did extract a rather large amount of people rather quickly.

I haven't read anything that indicates how many people were buried either fully or partially. stats?

The whole hero angle is a bit much (unless the stats I'm requesting put it in some amazing new light). Some of the stuff I'm hearing some of them say makes it even worse, frankly. It seems like some of these people are the type who feel like they society is out to get them- we want to register their guns, take away all their freedoms, pay taxes, etc etc.- and then you have the wife saying the cops or whoever should have not let the sledders go out (which I'm sure isn't winning her any fans in that community). There's more fuck you we have a right to do this going on than, hey how can we prevent this and learn from this. Maybe those poeple are just louder and on more forums- people who have suggested the latter seem to get shut down pretty hard on the snowest forum.

I'm really torn about the criminal charges. Investigation, yes. I'm not really sure where to take what comes out of that.

interestingly, Queen of the North ferry sinking charges were laid yesterday.

[XXX-er]

^^^^^why make it seem like becuase sledders have some money one should try to goven them even more //last i checked skiing is an expensive sport as well....as a skier and a sledder, well if you govern one better govern both as far as back country access is concerned.......

I am not making a judgement as to WHAT should be done to sledders ,I'm saying this is GOING to be done and from the PR perspective of the gov the timing is perfect

I'm saying if you were "the govy" ,if you had this file ,if you had been racking yer brains to think of a way to fuck up the sledders and make yerself look good to the public who elected you ...they just gave it to you on a silver platter

You may see skiers doing stupid things in the BC in BC but so far their death rates have decreased while sledders have increased

Think how this last incident looks to the average taxpaying lowermainlander who's idea of extreme exercise is a power walk to starbucks ?

[neckdeep]

After reading that article, I now have absolutely no concern about what happens to her or her intended audience of fellow hero slednecks (hey, if you ain't invincible, at least you can still be a HERO!). You wanna make your bed/grave, then you can go fuckin lie/die in it. By yourself. Stop expecting million dollar rescue efforts(yeeah Susie, that's what you call self-reliant heroism). Sure it'll be a real shame when their innocent kids get buried with'em but, hey, in Darwinian terms, that's two birds with one stone. I have all respect for the sledders who stayed home or stuck to lesser slopes.

[Ermine]

Think how this last incident looks to the average taxpaying lowermainlander who's idea of extreme exercise is a power walk to starbucks ?

Bill 'em for the rescue, that's easy. Not sure how the Canadians fund their Search & Rescue organizations, but here in Utah, hunting, fishing, ATV and snowmobile registrations pay the lion's share of S&R funding (I'm sure paying for it 4x).

http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/news.../84173727.html

Simple way to get more funding for Karl's Avie folks to provide more outreach training to the sledders is to increase snowmobile registration fees across the board (all Provinces) in Canada. As others have said, training is cheaper than rescue both in money and in lives.

[hutash]

I think Susie is just an alias for Sarah Palin. Both spew totally worthless rhetoric. Sure they did some right things "after" they royally fucked up, but they if they didn't fuck up in the first place it would not be necessary.

... what is with the "We are not rednecks because we buy expensive sleds and gear" bullshit. Rednecks spend more on beer and trucks then I do, so does that make me the redneck?

Unfortunately, this is accident is a classic example of the human factors involved in nearly all avi reports. Herd mentality, familiarity, hero complex, et cetera. There were plenty of people who knew better, or at least should have known better, at the "non-event". Human factors occurred that led to this disaster, and as much as we like to bash slednecks, many of these factors occur with BC skiers, just on a smaller scale.

[mtnbiker/boarder]

Point well made ..........

I am not making a judgement as to WHAT should be done to sledders ,I'm saying this is GOING to be done and from the PR perspective of the gov the timing is perfect

I'm saying if you were "the govy" ,if you had this file ,if you had been racking yer brains to think of a way to fuck up the sledders and make yerself look good to the public who elected you ...they just gave it to you on a silver platter

You may see skiers doing stupid things in the BC in BC but so far their death rates have decreased while sledders have increased

Think how this last incident looks to the average taxpaying lowermainlander who's idea of extreme exercise is a power walk to starbucks ?