At least 3 dead, 15 injured after B.C. avalanche

[powder11]

Skiers get lucky because they're lighter and less destructive to the snow pack, but I would feel exactly the same if 3 skiers loaded up a slope and triggered it on a group of 200 people watching. Stupid morons who deserve what they get. That being said, most ski related incidents happen to people trying to do the right thing and either make a judgement error reading the terrain or are victims of dumb luck.

Slednecks who go out of their way to temp fate and even pride themselves in beating the risks deserve it if they get caught. I've heard "I'll just pin it to win it if I trigger a slide" from someone. Not surprising that same person ended up in a crevasse with the sled and thought it was cool.

What would you say to someone who throws gasoline on a fire and ends up burning their face off?

[kidwoo]

What would you say to someone who throws gasoline on a fire and ends up burning their face off?

"Nice eyebrows"

[backcountryislife]

[quote=BFD;2793239]

[One account mentions that he saw "tons of avy bags going off", you won't likely see someone with no avy experience spending 1000+ on a backpack./QUOTE]
Thank's for proving that once again you are one of the dumbest posters here trying to make a point.

Bud, I didn't say it wasn't stupid, and as I see skinners all on one slope at the same time on a VERY regular basis, it's a fact that we don't always do what we should or what was the smart choice.

All I'm saying over here is that we're all just people, you guys like to think they (we) are all stupid unprepared lazy rednecks, all I'm getting at is that making these assumptions is stupid.

[backcountryislife]

That being said, most ski related incidents happen to people trying to do the right thing and either make a judgement error reading the terrain or are victims of dumb luck.

you mean like the moron at Abasin the other day??

How bout the toolbag that died at Vail???

You can keep trying to make this idiotic point that YOU are all the geniuses in the room, and that all sledders are stupid.

THis conversation is so pitiful. It just blows me away the lengths that some of you will go to to try & feel superior to another simply because of the way that they travel into the backcountry.

[eirikainersharp]

I don't want to get involved in the flaming or finger pointing. I just got home and am still in aww. I got flown out from Golden last night as part of a strike team ended up being one of the first teams on scene. It is a miracle that there were not any more deaths or serious casualties. The carnage there was unbelievable, it looked like a war zone. A size 4 avalanche plowing through 200+ people sitting in the path (not the runnout... the fucking path) and only 2 people dead....


After the Caunought Creek avalanche there was talk in some circles of the provincial government about shutting the backcountry down to recreationalist in the winter. I wonder what the out come of this accident will be.

[vanisle]

There is no denying the decision by the organizers to hold this event in these conditions borders on criminal negligence.But the fact that the death toll looks to be thankfully low speaks volumes to how far the sledneck crowd has come in avalanche training in the last few years.

Can you imagine the clusterfuck it must have been to start an organized search with such a huge crowd,it seems to me there was a lot of people with extensive training to be able to find and extricate so many burials fast enough to save most of them.

Personally i wouldn't trust 90% of the idiots i see in the local slackcountry to be able to rescue me in a situation like that.Most of them have no gear and even when they do theyve never had any formal avalanche training...

[eirikainersharp]

here are some pics from the site... courtesy of the RCMP:

This avalanche ran down two sides of a ridge. The crown on the side above the spectators was about 250m wide, the crown was about 300m wide on the other (larger) aspect.


Where the debris starts is the bench the majority of the spectators were sitting on. The slide ran another couple of hundred m from there. The stuff you see on top of the debris are all smashed up sleds. In some places the debris was about 4 m deep.



This shot was taken from the left looking back on the scene from the air.



At one point I counted 6 212s in the air as well as about 4 smaller machines.

An initial beacon search was complicated by the 50+ sledders milling about in shock, turning the beacons off and on at random. Probing likely areas was next to impossible because you couldn't stick your probe in anywhere without hitting a buried sled. Digging around the sleds made extractions a slow, impractical process.

[Dhelihiker]

talking shit about people in the middle of a tragedy is is fucking classless. Id rather be stupid than have no class, you are douches.


My condolences to those that just lost their friends and family

[GoNads]

I'd have to agree with you Eirik... with 200+ hit I was expecting worse. Thank god it was only 2 fatalities. I've been sledding in Revy 4 or 5 times now, and earlier this season when I was out with 2 girlfriends on boulder we got laughed at and asked how many nights we were going out for. Nobody else had packs on (it was november) and they were blown away that we had so much stuff in our packs and thought we were going on a super big overnighter.

You know, all those "bulky" things like shovels, probes, first aid kits, water, emergency gear etc. I doubt half of them had beacons on either.

There's a big difference in sled crowds, a lot of "trail riders" never venture too far off the groomed track, this doesn't mean they shouldn't have gear, but most of them are older in age and I'm betting Avalanche awareness wasn't that big when they first started. Revy also gets a lot of transient sledders who aren't familiar with local conditions and the snowpack. A lot of rig pigs from Alberta come in for their days/week off, and Revy is a big sled destination for Americans too.

Also, later in the season I saw lots of sledders in revy with shovels on their sleds. What use is that? If you're in an avy and you get separated from your sled how will you dig your friends out?

The younger crowd, sledders who came from skiing or boarding tend to be much better. I don't know a single person here in Whistler who goes up sledding without a beacon/shovel/probe/pack and emergency gear. I swear my pack weighs like 35lbs or more with just the essentials. A lot of the sledders around whis have at least AST1 or AST2, and some form of first aid ticket. Quite a few are patrollers or firefighters. In most of my experience riding locally most climb/hit jumps one at a time, and always watch/park in the middle of the glacier quite far away from the end of the slope, and most seem to be fairly well educated about what sort of slopes/aspects to avoid due to higher risks.

To say all sledders are dumb ignorant rednecks is pretty ignorant. To make judgment calls on a sport you don't partake in or know anything about it's also pretty ridiculous. I've seen quite a few dumb maneuvers from skiers on resort and around slackcountry as well, but a 150lb skier doesn't travel NEARLY as much ground as a 500lb 180 horsepower sled. They don't travel in the same patterns either. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

This avalanche is tragic, but I hope its an eye opener for people to take more personal accountability in the backcountry. Sure it was an "event" but nobody controls the snowpack in the backcountry, it's up to the user to check the avy bulletins, dig pits, be aware of the snowpack and travel safely and make smart decisions. Part of making smart decisions is traveling with friends who have your back, and are educated and prepared as well. It can be a long ways out to help if you get hurt or break down.

It sickens me a little at people placing blame and referring to the deceased as "morons" etc. I'm sure they had families and loved ones who are in a lot of pain right now. Shame on you. Has the media desensitized death that much? Let this be a wake up call and learning experience, however brutal it may be...

[LeeLau]

thx eirik for posting the pictures - that looks like suicide

[eirikainersharp]

thx eirik for posting the pictures - that looks like suicide

sure felt like it on the scene, there was still a bit of hangfire and that face made me feel pretty small.

[sfotex]

talking shit about people in the middle of a tragedy is is fucking classless. Id rather be stupid than have no class, you are douches.


My condolences to those that just lost their friends and family

x 2...............

[skieurmalade]

"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. - Henri David Thoreau"

http://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f4/b...9-a-12997.html

this misspelled quote sums the entire thing up for me.

[mtnjam]

Nadia, you hit the nail on the head with this paragraph: (always great insight)

This avalanche is tragic, but I hope its an eye opener for people to take more personal accountability in the backcountry. Sure it was an "event" but nobody controls the snowpack in the backcountry, it's up to the user to check the avy bulletins, dig pits, be aware of the snowpack and travel safely and make smart decisions. Part of making smart decisions is traveling with friends who have your back, and are educated and prepared as well. It can be a long ways out to help if you get hurt or break down.

I was reading the snowandmud forum and hearing people asking why wasn't there control work done before this event and couldn't help think about that in the above paragraph.

[backcountryislife]

"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. - Henri David Thoreau"

http://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f4/b...9-a-12997.html

this misspelled quote sums the entire thing up for me.

Last years thread? why?

[Gripen]

I got flown out from Golden last night as part of a strike team ended up being one of the first teams on scene. It is a miracle that there were not any more deaths or serious casualties.

Hey buddy. Good on ya for getting on that bird. I can only imagine what was going though everyones head as they heard 200+ people were involved.

Thanks for getting out there and doing what you do, proud of ya man.

See at the hill tomorrow.
I won't slay all of B4, I'll save ya some goods.

[eleventyfive]

There is no denying the decision by the organizers to hold this event in these conditions borders on criminal negligence.But the fact that the death toll looks to be thankfully low speaks volumes to how far the sledneck crowd has come in avalanche training in the last few years.

Personally i wouldn't trust 90% of the idiots i see in the local slackcountry to be able to rescue me in a situation like that.Most of them have no gear and even when they do theyve never had any formal avalanche training...

Agreed.

Generalizations about incidents and user groups involved seem to happen every time these accidents occur. These generalizations seem to make it easier for folks removed from the incidents to rationalize their own safety and decision making, often before the dust even settles. The organizers deserve a lot of the blame but so do other entities and sponsors. Also the people who attended, not because they ride snowmobiles, because of their decisions. Before jumping to conclusions using broadbrush stereotypes it helps to have information from folks who were actually involved. Thanks for the relevant info Eric.

Agree that many people who ride lifts and then access backcountry terrain are even less connected to their decision making and the consequences than someone who is out accessing backcountry terrain on a sled. Truth is many, many people get caught and survive and most we never hear about, really glad to see so many people survived and so sorry to hear about those lives lost.

Hopefully something positive will come from this and not just allow bennies to perpetuate the idea it wouldn't happen to me because I'm smarter than those assholes who I know little about.

[Fatfish]

I don't want to get involved in the flaming or finger pointing. I just got home and am still in aww. I got flown out from Golden last night as part of a strike team ended up being one of the first teams on scene. It is a miracle that there were not any more deaths or serious casualties. The carnage there was unbelievable, it looked like a war zone. A size 4 avalanche plowing through 200+ people sitting in the path (not the runnout... the fucking path) and only 2 people dead....


After the Caunought Creek avalanche there was talk in some circles of the provincial government about shutting the backcountry down to recreationalist in the winter. I wonder what the out come of this accident will be.

Okay, sorry to correct you and i am very glad you went in but it was not a class 4. Class 3 yes. 200 peeps hit? No. Estimated 40 - 50. There were 200 peeps at the event and luckily the were not all drinking beer in the slide path. That is not a stereo type either, there were lots of beer cans at the scene. Media likes to rough up the story a little. Nice that my tax bucks went to digging and heli ing out 35-40 sleds today. They dogs cant smell shit with all the petrol so they will probe it tomorrow. Thank Selkirk Tangires and CMH for being the first on the scene. Guess they had a hard time landing at the scene with all the sleds racing around in the way during the kaos and rescue efforts. So suprised and glad it went the way it did, not many deaths. Sad to say that heard one patron just passed away in the hospital. Have some pics but not allowed to post them. Sorry guys.

[BFD]

Last years thread? why?

I linked to it earlier. I thought it was informative and gave a good insite into the event for us who knew nothing about it till now. Worth reading in my opinion.

[skieurmalade]

Last years thread? why?

because thoreau is the antithesis of ignorance

when misspelled in this context the entire picture becomes clear for me. Perhaps only for me.

[L7]

I didn't read all of this but a couple of reports I saw jumped out at me. One seemed to say the crown was 7 -9 metres BUT maybe it really referred to the debris pile depth.

The more interesting one was about a 20 year old guy maybe local to revie and sounds like he's big into the sledding. He decided not to go out because he felt it was too dangerous due to recent activity. The 20 year old tried to talk his Mother out of going but she went anyway. She was one who was unaccounted for at first but has been found fine now it seems.

The dead guys are from Lacombe and Strathmore and as mentioned run an oil supply company. These places are pure prairie and are typical homes for a lot of the Revie weekend sledding crowd. I'm far from the slowest guy who drives highway 1 and when I get passed 8 out of 10 times it's a big diesel truck pulling 2 - 4 sleds. A lot of these guys have a risk mentality that goes way beyond safe choices.

Just last year 7died? out of a group of 14? and yet 200 can gather in a place like that and still ignore serious avalanche warnings. That's 200 people ignoring most common sense. That says an awful lot about the mindset of a large portion of these enthusiasts.

[eirikainersharp]

Okay, sorry to correct you and i am very glad you went in but it was not a class 4. Class 3 yes. 200 peeps hit? No. Estimated 40 - 50. There were 200 peeps at the event and luckily the were not all drinking beer in the slide path. That is not a stereo type either, there were lots of beer cans at the scene. Media likes to rough up the story a little. Nice that my tax bucks went to digging and heli ing out 35-40 sleds today. They dogs cant smell shit with all the petrol so they will probe it tomorrow. Thank Selkirk Tangires and CMH for being the first on the scene. Guess they had a hard time landing at the scene with all the sleds racing around in the way during the kaos and rescue efforts. So suprised and glad it went the way it did, not many deaths. Sad to say that heard one patron just passed away in the hospital. Have some pics but not allowed to post them. Sorry guys.

were you up there to?

not to pick at a moot point but seeing as your critiquing my professional oppinon it sure seemed to meed the definition of a Size 4 to me since i could easily have "destroy a railway car, large truck, or several buildings".

I think there is a big difference between sled skiers, and sledders, i know there is cross over and I know that I'm generalizing but I still think that a pretty clear distinction exist specifically regarding the way the two groups mentally approach traveling in the mountains. The thing that I'm still trying to wrap my head around is that the hazard was high, the CAC had issued a special advisory and yet still people were pushing it in big terrain. I just can't figure out how sledder culture seems to have developed that encourages this suicidal risk tolerance.

Something has to be done to stem these insanely high sledder accident rates (19 our of 25 recreational avalanche deaths in BC in 2009 were sledders, this year I think it is about 7 out of 8). More training, yes. Better targeted and appropriate public forecasts yes. But only when sledneck culture undergoes a paradigm shift in its risk tolerance and grows out of its invincibility complex will we see a decrease in sledder deaths.

What is going to need to be done to bring that about? I have no idea, but the community needs to start taking snow saftey seriously. Hopefully the sledder industry will take note here and step up by investing in developing better public avalanche products though financial support of the CAC, the CAA and research programs like ASARC at U of C.

[Fatfish]

Nope. Roomates, Landlord and a bunch of other friends. Detailed pics though. Had to work. Looked gnarly.

[splat]

Thanks for the pics, Erik. I've been waiting to see what it looked like and found this bit of rough footie at CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...ex.html?hpt=T2

[Rookie]

Wow those pics are crazy, I can't even fathom that amount of snow coming down.