08/09 Stockli DP + (186cm) or 08/09 Dynastar LP (190cm)

[MickeysEars]

Hi all..

1st post on this forum, so hello. I've searched already and I can't find anyone who has skied these exact models and lengths so thought i'd start a fresh thread to see of that had changed?

I'm trying to decide between the two skis mentioned for days mainly in between big snow falls. Heavily chopped up snow, crud, some hardpack, Couloirs etc... essentially the typical conditions you get in the Chamonix Valley between dumps or if i'm in the US i'd be in Jackson or Squaw Valley / Kirkwood mainly.

Bit about me. I'm 185cm 190lbs. 35 years old. Qualified as ski instructor in 92/93 and then worked 5 seasons between then an 98/99. Now with a family I get 4 weeks a season in. Would spend 100% of my time away from groomed if possible but that's not possible so this ski has to have that ability too for the little I do.

Any thoughts?

Thanks..

[Wetdog]

The new Stockli DP is the same as last year's and the LP is a new updated model. I have the older LP and have skied the DP and found the LP better on groomed and cruddy snow, which is its forte, and the DP to be a bit better in the soft, especially powder, with its softer tip, but it is no slouch in mixed conditions either. The LP is a bit stiffer, damper and heavier. If I didn't have the LP, I would seriously consider the DP. The new LP I have not skied, but I understand is considerably softer than the old one and a bit wider, making it a bit more of an everyman ski. Lighter, less powerful skiers seem to like it, and those used to the old one think it is a sell out to the mass marketing, scaling down the very attributes that made the old one such a, well Legend. The DP, probably falls in between the old and new LP in terms of stiffness, with performance more similar to the old LP. I would think, in terms of what you have described about yourself, the the Stockli DP would be more up your alley, or see if you could get a deal on some of last year's stock Dynastar LP.

[D(C)]

The new Stockli DP is the same as last year's

He's asking about the DP Pro +, which is 101 underfoot, vs. the old 94 waisted one.

[MickeysEars]

Thanks Wetdog and D(C).

Yeah my worry with the LP is that it will be too soft. I'm gutted I missed out on some 06/07 186's still in wrapers !! I can't find any 07/08 LP's in a 186 anywhere and i'm in Europe where you'd think I would be able to. That would be my first choice.

However, I have heard from pretty reliable sources that the new LP 190 is exactly the same flex and the older one. If this is true then perhaps this will be a great ski. Anyone else heard the same?

Was thinking the DP PRO +, perhaps not very clear in my original post. Trouble is they are like rocking horse shit so trying to get a demo is very hard. Wish I could find some bloody 07/08 LP's but only ones around seem to be the 174's and that would be too small. Plenty of 194 XXL's but that's too fat for what I want. I want a hard charging ski that take the harder stuff.

If anyone has skied the 190 LP 08/09 or the DP Pro + that would be cool to hear from them too. Thanks all.

[SuperGaper]

I have skied the new Scot Schmidt Pro about 30 days now. Got it at the end of last season. 186 cms, 101 under foot.

From what I understand it is the same as the DP +. Whereas before the LP was the stiffer of the 2 I think that the opposite is true now. The SS Pro skis very much like the old LP, very strong, very damp. Classic Stockli feel. Skied a lot last year in crud and spring conditions, some pow. Excels in every thing but true powder- not as bad the old asteroid but still a bit of a bottom feeder.

Skied it the last few days here in Jackson in windbuff, and heavier, wind transported pow and it really killed it. At my size, 5'8" 155 lbs. I have to be on it all the time. Not what I would call a "playful" ski- but awesome at what it does if you step on it.

Skied my DP (old version, 184) today as inbounds has quickly converted to cold chalk, (-24 F at my house this morning) and wasn't as enjoyable, flex isn't as round- softer shovel bends into the turn and the stiffer tail really can be a handful!

We also carry Dynastar at our shop, I skied on the new LP in the 184 last spring- maybe I can get on the 190 demo tomorrow and let you know what I think.

BTW, our Stockli rep only had the DP + in 201 for demo last spring!

[MickeysEars]

Thanks SuperGaper, that's really useful and exactly what i'm looking for.

Decsions Decisions, I think The Stockli DP + sounds good for me and i'm going to be using my softer 189 Seths for powder days anyway so not so worried about it's abilituy to float. I sjust would then have to decide of 186 or 193 for the DP +. I think even though i'm heavy the 186 will be more versitile don't you think but still rock solid? Also a bit shorter radius at 27m as opposed to 31m I think.

If you can demo the LP 190 that would be great. Really looking forward to hearing someones views on that as I hear it's very different to the 184.

Thanks again.

[MTT]

Even though Dynastar is not maling the REAL LP this year, here is a link to a Euro company that is producing the 186 with a custom graphic

http://winter.kaorigin.com/dynastar-...r-fr-k-0708-15

[MickeysEars]

OK.. decision made !

I'm getting the Stockli DP PRO +. Can get it for great money in the UK.

Just need to decide if I go for 186 or 193...? My heart says 193 and my head says 186 will be more versitile. But i hate when you buy too small and get issues at speed. 200lbs weight though and i'm 185cm. I can't decide ! This is not my main powder ski as I will use my Seths for that as they are softer. Given this is for mixed / crud and harder conditions for Chamonix Valley. Any thoughts from anyone?

Also with bindings...i've always been a Look Pivot / PX kinda a guy. With their lifter plate. Anything else I should consider. Jester maybe? Don't want Dukes on this ski as they break !

[Wetdog]

Given your stats, I would say 186. I had exactly the same dilemma a few years back with the LP. If it was my one big ski for powder and everything else, it would have been 194, but I went with the 186, because I was using it for more mixed conditions and all mountain use and I am glad I did. I have even been heliskiing with it and it was fine, more maneuverable and a bit more easy going than the 194, but still a big ski and a freight train in crud. I'm 6'3" and 185lbs.

[Damian Sanders]

I'm exactly your size and ski both the head im88 and older stockli SS in a 186 for all around. While I do have longer skis for speed use, the 186's are stable enough for just about anything. If the DP+ is as beefy as claimed, it sounds like it will be plenty of ski.

[Arno]

i cannot believe my eyes - 2 responses to the length question and both say go short!

[Tripper]

I'll balance it out, then, with a vote to go long...maybe.

Compared to you, I'm 6'2" 215 lbs and 26 yo, so slightly younger, maybe stronger, but similar. Having owned 2 generations of Stockli SS and 3 different LPs, I'd say that the only 180s-length ski in this group that didn't make me feel like I might dip a tip and go head over if I got too far forward at speed was the 186 LP (last year's or earlier), I think mostly due to the high curvature of its shovel and slightly stiffer feel (and that's comparing to a 188 Schmidt, too).

That being said, I've only been able to hand-flex and look at the 186 DP+/Schmidt and 193 DP+ in the shop. From what I can tell, even at 101 in the waist, it still has some classic looking Stockli lines to it, so it may dive more than you'd expect, which may warrant the 193 if you think you can swing the extra 7cm easily enough in the chutes and tight areas...

I know you said it's really hard to find a demo, but if you're still that indecisive about it, I wouldn't buy anything before trying both lengths if you can find a way. And not to make you even more confused, but you may want to lean towards finding and/or trying a 186LP from last year or earlier, too.

[MickeysEars]

Thanks for replies...just weighed myself and i'm actually fatter than I thought !! (joking...not fat - it's muscle..lol) More like 215lb at the moment ! Christmas...

Tripper has may main concern in his post. Will it be agile enough in the chutes etc in a 193? Trees / bumps too... That's all that's putting me off buying the 193.

Trouble with the whole demo thing is that you then are in a resort and stuck with only being able to buy them at full price. I can get the DP+ for the equivalent of only $760 (£520) at current exchange rates so very good. In France or Switzerland at the moment that would be more like 1000 Euros !!! Double the price !

The true running length is also fairly long on these skis I think too. Certainly when you compare to my twin tips that are a 189.

I'd love a set of 06/07 or 07/08 LP's in a 186 but they are so hard to find and I lost out to a pair (Arno - is that you !) of original race room ones in wrappers...was gutted !

The new 190 LP's could be the best solution but no one seems to have ridden them yet that I can speak to ! I've also just found a second hand (used 3 to 4 days) pair of last year DP's in a 184 eith bindings for only about $400 ! So maybe I should just buy those and get the DP+ in a 193 and ditch the Seths altogether !! No that may be a nice quiver !

[Damian Sanders]

I've also just found a second hand (used 3 to 4 days) pair of last year DP's in a 184 eith bindings for only about $400 ! So maybe I should just buy those.....

Though I have not skied them, based on the flex (very soft tip) and reviews, I would not bother with the older DP in the 184 length.

If you're looking for a short ski to beat on, you can't go wrong with a 179 K2 PE mounted at 0 or +1.

[Tripper]

MickeysEars, I've got a pair of 186 LPs from '07/'08 that are in amazing shape, and I've been on the fence about keeping or selling them. Sent you a PM about them...and also a link to some back-year Schmidts for less than pro price elsewhere online. Check your messages.

[MrDirt]

Bump. Has anyone skied on the 190 LP? I skied on the 184 during one of the best powder days of my life lapping rendezvous bowl two springs ago and absolutely loved it. However, given that I am a large fellow (6'3" 250lbs) in need of an every day ski, I think the extra 6cm might be the ticket. Just FYI since I know the newer LPs have not been well received by the hard chargers in love with the old LP's... I am not what most people on this board would consider to be an "expert" skier.

[D(C)]

Bump. Has anyone skied on the 190 LP? I skied on the 184 during one of the best powder days of my life lapping rendezvous bowl two springs ago and absolutely loved it. However, given that I am a large fellow (6'3" 250lbs) in need of an every day ski, I think the extra 6cm might be the ticket. Just FYI since I know the newer LPs have not been well received by the hard chargers in love with the old LP's... I am not what most people on this board would consider to be an "expert" skier.

I have a couple of days on my 190s, with a lot of time spent on groomers, icy, skied out alpine terrain and some bumpy trees. It's tough to give you much relevant advice because a) I have not tried the 184 and b) I am 70 lbs. lighter than you but fairly aggressive (race/coaching background).

From my experience, I can tell you that the 190s are pretty hard charging. For me, they like bigger turns and are pretty awkward in tighter spaces. They need to be driven are pretty demanding. I have flexed the 184 next to the 190s and can tell you that the tips on the 184s are significantly softer. I wouldn't be surprised if they are a completely different ski on-snow, the 184s much easy to pivot and requiring less input.

It's tough to say whether your extra 70 lbs. may make the 190s quite manageable. But from my experience, I find it hard to think that someone who isn't driving them hard all day won't spend their time getting tossed around. At your size, I do think a 184 is on the short side. But the 190 LP may not be the way to go for a less aggressive skier.

Maybe think about 191 Shoguns or Mantras. They should be slightly more forgiving, more in line with the 184 LPs.

[MrDirt]

Thanks for the input! I wont downplay my skiing ability as intermediate, but I'm certainly not at the top of the food chain. I try hard to ski as fast and aggressively as I can every day I'm out. I crash the shit out of myself a lot because of this, and I'm looking for a ski to really build my abilities. I know without a doubt that I found that in the 184 LP, but I was about 20lbs lighter when I demoed them. I've demoed some stronger skis like 189 squads and found them extremely confidence inspiring and outrageously fun doing 50-60 mph runs on flat-snow days, but a hand full in hard bumps and tight terrain.

I suppose I really can't go wrong finding a pair of 184s knowing that they "changed my life" as myself and others put it, but I was curious if the 190s have a similar feel in a slightly larger size. Thanks for the info!

[MrDirt]

Also, I actually was really interested in the 191 Shogun after fondling them at Alpine Sports in Ogden the other day. Its interesting, as I found them to be very similar to the LP 184 flex as well. If they pop up on shop form, I'll probably buy them since Dynastar is not available to me. I was very curious about them but was unable to find any in-depth reviews here. I'll have to try to find some demos once the snowpack here improves.

[D(C)]

I've demoed some stronger skis like 189 squads and found them extremely confidence inspiring and outrageously fun doing 50-60 mph runs on flat-snow days, but a hand full in hard bumps and tight terrain.

I took a few runs on the 189 Squads but it was almost a year ago. From what I recall, the 190 LPs are a friendlier version of the Squads. The main difference is that it is easier to vary turn radius on the LPs and to disengage from carves. However, I remember the same awkwardness in tight spots on the Squads and getting similarly chucked around in bumps.

[mxpowder]

I met up last season with the Stockli rep and tried his 186 DP+ skis for less than half a dozen runs. Im 6' 180 lbs and would describe myself as an agressive advanced traditional skier. Skied the DP+ on firm snow with some firm crud bumps, and thought it was going to be my next firm snow ski.

The ski is awsome looking and I really liked how the skis could be swaped from left to right to get a different flex patern. I must say though, skiing the firm crud with bumps absolutly kicked my ass. The ski was just too stiff for me and felt like 2x4's that didnt want to be skidded at all. The ski wanted to be locked into a turn and felt like I was on steel I beams when trying to skid the ski through hard but grippy, rough, steep terrain. The DP+ absolutly rocked smother snow with classic race lines (fast GS turns), I was scared to death when trying to mach though steep rough terrain. Just too stiff for me or Im too much of a puss.

I skied the reps same size SS later in the day and really liked that ski much more. The SS was much more forgiving, but maybe even a little too soft for me. I recently purchased some race room LP 193's and 186's. I havent gotten to use either too much in variable terain yet, but my impression is that both are more forgiving than the DP+. Anyways, my quick 2 cents.