2008-2009 Colorado Snowpack Observations

**pappag** · 04-05-2008, 05:21 PM

We set out to lap Grizzly Gulch today. Even after enduring near 60-mph winds for 1.5 hours, we had to back off. Three pits were dug on the SE-facing aspect about 30 yards apart. Mine was closer to the top of the slope and revealed an initial 2-foot layer of wind slab on top of sugar powder for another 3-4 feet (I hit rock bottom). The other two pits were more representative of the slope further downhill and didn't show us anything to indicate that it would have be safe to go. So we bailed, hiked a little further towards Grizzly Peak and dropped in towards A-Basin. Super wind buffed on top, a bit more manageable some 300-400 feet lower, and sun baked once we hit treeline. It was about 3 PM at this point.

**smitchell333** · 04-05-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Nick Pappagiorgio

We set out to lap Grizzly Gulch today. Even after enduring near 60-mph winds for 1.5 hours, we had to back off. Three pits were dug on the SE-facing aspect about 30 yards apart. Mine was closer to the top of the slope and revealed an initial 2-foot layer of wind slab on top of sugar powder for another 3-4 feet (I hit rock bottom). The other two pits were more representative of the slope further downhill and didn't show us anything to indicate that it would have be safe to go. So we bailed, hiked a little further towards Grizzly Peak and dropped in towards A-Basin. Super wind buffed on top, a bit more manageable some 300-400 feet lower, and sun baked once we hit treeline. It was about 3 PM at this point.

Better to back off then get in trouble. What in particular made you convinced that the snow pits "didnt show us anything to indicate it would have been safe to go?"

**jon turner** · 04-05-2008, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by smitchell333

Better to back off then get in trouble. What in particular made you convinced that the snow pits "didnt show us anything to indicate it would have been safe to go?"

I thought that was an interesting quote as well. Snow pits should be used to confirm what you're observing or make you feel less confident in stability. They shouldn't be used to make you feel more confident in something you're already feeling sketchy about. If you feel differently about what I said that's fine. It's just what I've been taught/my opinion, etc.

I've seen a lot of sketchy deep sugar snow in the last month or more, especially on the southern aspects, but a little bit of everywhere. Snowpack still seems pretty variable point to point - definitely isn't completely spring yet even if it seems like it once in awhile.

**pappag** · 04-06-2008, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by smitchell333

Better to back off then get in trouble. What in particular made you convinced that the snow pits "didnt show us anything to indicate it would have been safe to go?"

I didn't get a look at them, but it was 6-8" of wind slab over increasingly weak layers beneath. Not entirely sugar but not stable enough to think something would not break. Seems like recent high winds may have forced quite a bit of moisture out of the snowpack since GG was skied considerably well two weeks ago with signs of stability.

FWIW - the danger was moderate above treeline yesterday.

**goldenboy** · 04-07-2008, 07:42 PM

A few thought I keep meaning on putting in this thread...

At this time of year, cornices can be really bad. We had a huge local release a few days ago on Axtel's 4th bowl due to a cornice failure that took the underlying snow to the ground. The accident near A basin/Grays is another example.

From the tours I've been on lately above treeline (Massive, Teocalli (13k), Kit Carson), we aren't even close to a springtime snowpack. Lots of sugar, lots of layers, lots of everything you would see in mid-winter, but not necessarily a nice, solid, frozen melt/freeze situation. Be patient, choose your aspects wisely.

**stihletto** · 04-12-2008, 07:06 PM

Witnessed chimney chute slide today. Eyeballing it, I'd say 20"-36" crown. Broke near the top of the chute and was about the width of the chute. Skier's right, on other steep shots, slabs were breaking off easily as well. Dangerous out there right now.

**pappag** · 04-13-2008, 09:34 PM

Skied four N/NE facing chutes at Berthoud today (two of which were above 12,000 feet and two were after 230 PM). Our last run was around 4 PM and had blower snow. Snow was very stable and no signs of instability present. Even in areas where sluff was expected, it did not produce. Considerable amount of avalanche activity was present on east-facing terrain on two separate headwalls with crowns forming about 10-20 feet below the cornices. Slide on the looker's right side of 10 Little Indians. Also saw slides on west-facing chutes late in the day near the Choke (looker's left I believe) on the east side of the pass. In total, I would estimate about a dozen slides today ... maybe more. There was one huge one off the headwall north of Postage Stamp which I will include pictures of tomorrow.

Again, who are the fuckers that hit No Name?

**pappag** · 04-14-2008, 11:22 AM

Picture of the large aforementioned slide on an east-facing slope at around 12,000 feet. The black-looking object at the very top-center is the top of Panorama Lift at WP. The large chunks at the bottom of the slide were about 15 x 10 feet in size.

**pechelman** · 04-14-2008, 11:27 AM

interesting location for the crown (maybe not really)

did you happen to inspect the crown or cornice any more closely?
id think not, but Im asking because

I noticed lots of water percolating\dripping down from the ends of cornices this past weekend
wondering if this dripping from the high temp increase was a factor here as the crown looks to be right below the edge of the cornice

thoughts from others?

**pappag** · 04-14-2008, 11:46 AM

We thought about inspecting the area after skiing down but time was running against us ... as well as a group of three skiers following our trail.

FWIW - there were a handful of slides that looked exactly alike the one pictured above with respect to where the fracture line began. All were E/SE facing.

More views:

**smitchell333** · 04-17-2008, 05:24 PM

Andrei and I stood at the top of Dragonstail at 11AM, 6" on the Easterly/southerly aspects and more at the ridge and North/West aspects with East winds loading last night in unusual patterns. Point releases visible lower down on Easterly faces leading to lenghty sluffs of hundreds of yards. Below us Dragon's Tail had sluffed some naturally. Tension hung in the air as we felt uncomfortable with this rowdy line in new snow with icy crust underneath from two day's before's hot temps. I found my way to the lip of the cornice carefully keeping my skis still on rock. Using my Whippet I cut and slashed at the cornice line hoping to cut off something to test the snow in the 50+deg couloir below. A small section the size of a pizza box, and nothing more, cuts free and then slides down the lip and onto the upper section of the couloir. It accelerates on the icy crust and entrains more and more snow as it runs down and around the multiple rock walled corners that are Dragon's Tail's flanks until its a frankly sizable snow slide occasionally accelerating or throwing snow over rocks and rollovers. After a pulsing ride all the way down to the lake, 1500' + later, it stops.

We turn away and look to the North East face of Flat Top several hundred feet higher to the West. Powder, in fact more of it on these North faces. An hour later we ski down the upper bowl in boot to knee deep fluff to the top of the North East couloirs where a squall dropped 1" of new snow and obliterated visibility for 10 minutes. We then dropped in to the steeper couloir to complete 1800' of knee deep fluff that produced face shot after face shot and only minor sluffing on a more cohesive north face. The best "Bailout" run ever. The trail out is a cakewalk with skier and snowshoe packed snow all the way to the car 900' lower.

**jon turner** · 04-17-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by smitchell333

Andrei and I stood at the top of Dragonstail at 11AM, 6" on the Easterly/southerly aspects and more at the ridge and North/West aspects with East winds loading last night in unusual patterns. Point releases visible lower down on Easterly faces leading to lenghty sluffs of hundreds of yards. Below us Dragon's Tail had sluffed some naturally. Tension hung in the air as we felt uncomfortable with this rowdy line in new snow with icy crust underneath from two day's before's hot temps. I found my way to the lip of the cornice carefully keeping my skis still on rock. Using my Whippet I cut and slashed at the cornice line hoping to cut off something to test the snow in the 50+deg couloir below. A small section the size of a pizza box, and nothing more, cuts free and then slides down the lip and onto the upper section of the couloir. It accelerates on the icy crust and entrains more and more snow as it runs down and around the multiple rock walled corners that are Dragon's Tail's flanks until its a frankly sizable snow slide occasionally accelerating or throwing snow over rocks and rollovers. After a pulsing ride all the way down to the lake, 1500' + later, it stops.

We turn away and look to the North East face of Flat Top several hundred feet higher to the West. Powder, in fact more of it on these North faces. An hour later we ski down the upper bowl in boot to knee deep fluff to the top of the North East couloirs where a squall dropped 1" of new snow and obliterated visibility for 10 minutes. We then dropped in to the steeper couloir to complete 1800' of knee deep fluff that produced face shot after face shot and only minor sluffing on a more cohesive north face. The best "Bailout" run ever. The trail out is a cakewalk with skier and snowshoe packed snow all the way to the car 900' lower.

Thanks for the post. I love that area. Too bad it's two hours further from me than it used to be. But, I'm not complaining. I also found nice fluffy, snow, about 28 degrees-ish, below treeline, and north facing today. New snow looked to be holding well to the old and seems to be starting to set up nicely. It was a blast to ski and didn't show any obvious signs of stability. Pole probes seemed to show a strengthening snow pack, and I didn't feel any obvious crusts. Not quite spring snowpack, but getting there.

**Ireallyliketoski2** · 04-18-2008, 03:32 PM

I love to hear the bailout reports, you can learn a lot from those. Great discussions here. When we skied Grays a few weeks ago the snowpack was about 4" of wind slab, on top of a pretty cohesive 3'-4' pack, with an inch or two of depth hoar on the bottom. Variable continues to be the word to use, I'm getting out tommorow for a tour on some south facing slopes around Loveland Pass area. I'm interested to see how the snowpack is doing now.

**montanaskier** · 04-21-2008, 08:35 AM

Our south facing tour on saturday showed very small windslab, less than 2". No shearing or failing at all of the column in our pit. Once removed, the column was nothing but facets about a foot deep. It was early in the morning and the pack was still locked up pretty solid.

**Ireallyliketoski2** · 04-21-2008, 09:12 AM

That sounds very similar to the snow we encountered on Saturday. We did a tour towards Hagar up Dry Gulch. Above 11,500 there was this funky wind slab/ heavy powder layer that was pretty tricky to ski and the snow just got worse the higher we went so we bailed. Below that layer there was decent consolidation for the next meter or so, but depth hoar supporting the whole slope. Not exactly inspiring.

**smitchell333** · 04-21-2008, 01:45 PM

Mt Bethel Sunday 4/20

In the trees the snowpack has not yet consolidated and especially low down it was bottomless slop by early afternoon. At middle elevations in the sun baked south aspects the snowpack was very consolidated and skiing like perfect corn. Up high above 12K it there was a bit of a funky crust layer that was just staring to barely soften up early afternoon. Great corn skiing

**concretejungle** · 04-27-2008, 09:31 AM

Berthoud 4/26

2 or 3 inches in the parking lot and about 5 at the top of the West Side. Did a couple runs between 11 and 2 on East and Northeast aspects. It was 15 degrees when we arrived and still below freezing in the parking lot when we left. The new snow seemed to bond fairly well with only minor sluffing on steeper slopes, no pits were dug. Watched a couple snowboarders check out the East Face of Russel but decided against it, maybe due to new wind deposits.

**jon turner** · 04-27-2008, 02:25 PM

Skied NW face of Drift on Saturday and NE face of Sniktau today. Snowpack is seeming to be getting pretty solid except for 2-3in. wind slab breaking up on both slopes at the surface. Nothing below that seemed to be moving at all. Melt-freeze hadn't really set in, as we found some nice wind loaded powder on sniktau today, but that's sure to change as it was getting warm and sunny today, and it's supposed to be 50's at 10,000 feet the next few days.

**couloirman** · 04-30-2008, 08:28 PM

I witnessed multiple natural wetslides today at 11am-12pm on S->E facing aspects near Aspen at 12-13.5K. Snow was all corn and borderline dangerous slush by 10am on these aspects. It barely froze at 12,000ft last night too according to my thermometer. Looks like alpine starts only for me for the rest of the season, who needs sleep anyway. Maybe this system passing through will bring us some goodness... Be careful out there

**montanaskier** · 05-02-2008, 10:34 AM

not that people don't already know this, but this system dumped quite a bit of snow and it was ridiculous windy at VP and the tunnel on my way home from Denver this morning. Gonna be tempting to get after some pow after the break we've had, but be careful of this new snow and the wind slabs that have no doubt formed.

**FiveLarge** · 05-02-2008, 05:41 PM

anybody out in the bc today (Friday)? curious how the new snow is bonding and what the windslab is like. good reminder, montanaskier - I'm in that boat trying to make a good decision for tomorrow.

**smitchell333** · 05-02-2008, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by spthomson

anybody out in the bc today (Friday)? curious how the new snow is bonding and what the windslab is like. good reminder, montanaskier - I'm in that boat trying to make a good decision for tomorrow.

Only did Loveland lifts and Loveland Valley skin as the pass was closed. Generally just 5-10" but very icy underneath with high winds and plenty of transport. Where drifting it was getting deep @ 3-4'. I'd be especially careful on the easterly ridges where the right combo of steep, windloaded, and icy crust underneath exists - especially as it warms up.

**FiveLarge** · 05-02-2008, 08:54 PM

^^^
thanks, appreciated. what I would expect, but good to get the firsthand obs.

**pappag** · 05-03-2008, 09:35 PM

Was up at James Peak today. As we were hiking up the glacier, we had clear view of Super Star (the most prominent couloir to the north of the peak) and had our eyes set on it, but the rather larger cornice forced us to examine other options. After walking along the ridge north and south of the summit, there were 3 available choices. One was to the north and incredibly short, so we bagged that idea. The other two were eventually turned down.

Around 11 AM, I stepped into Shooting Star (a popular ENE-facing shot with a rather wide entrance) and my foot sunk 3 feet after pushing through a very thin wind crust. We bailed. Next, we hiked down another hundred feet to Starlight. As I was downclimbing in to check conditions, a bunch of rocks tumbled beside me. Clearly not a snowpack-related observation, but felt like a bad omen, so we unconventional bailed on that idea and stuck to skiing the glacier which was pretty fun at times. The views at the top were WELL worth the trip and look forward to going back there again soon.

In related news, Bancroft Bowl looked VERY good.

**smitchell333** · 05-07-2008, 09:56 AM

Loveland Pass area:
Dave's Wave
Point 12,900 X 2

Great corn skiing on these west faces well into the afternoon. The under layers are very firm other than where the snowpack is very thin, rocky, or rotted by willows/trees. And the upper layers are super buttery.

I'd say low danger, although another guy I talked to had ventured onto a easterly facing aspect with rocks and found rotten stuff, perhaps from the last storm or perhaps just rotten around the rocks.

Hopefully the snowpack will keep freezing up nicely at night and keep it firm for the next few weeks.