Clinton Facts?

**Grange** · 08-07-2007, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

Draft dodging is a felony? Can't really blame the guy since Vietnam was stupid, but wow.

If any of the initial post carries the credibility that it proclaims, I wonder this.

If Clinton took care of Osama, would 9-11 happened? Would we be at war in Iraq?

Since Iraq was not involved in 9-11 and we still invaded them I'd have to say yes.

**Blurred** · 08-07-2007, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Grange

Since Iraq was not involved in 9-11 and we still invaded them I'd have to say yes.

I follow your logic, but if the events of 9-11 had never happened, would congress have authorized Bush to use military force in Iraq? I seriously doubt it.

Rooster · 08-07-2007, 09:15 PM

**MeatPuppet** · 08-07-2007, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Grange

Since Iraq was not involved in 9-11 and we still invaded them I'd have to say yes.

Someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, rapes one of your daughters and beats her within an inch of her life. The people who did this to your daughter might not live in the chrackhouse at the end of the street, but you would get rid of it anyway because it is contributing to the environment that lead to your daughter getting raped.

Iraq was the crackhouse at the end of the street. Deal with it.

**Danno** · 08-07-2007, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Telenater

Carter's second day in office he pardoned all who avoided the Vietnam draft through either not registering with selective services or by traveling abroad.

I knew that when I made my post, but did Carter pardon Clinton? That list of facts, which first describes Clinton's early public service, then describes the pardon of Clinton, makes it sound as if Carter pardoned Clinton by name, as if he was an acknowledged lawbreaker who needed a pardon. Instead, there's a lot of suppositions that must be made first in order for Carter's pardon to have been a pardon of Clinton. In other words, the original post acts like Clinton was a convicted felon who was then pardoned, when instead that is patently false. Instead, that list of facts seeks to indict and convict Clinton without having to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Although the pardon of course ended any pursuit of these people, it was not a pardon of Clinton.

Just one reason that regardless of your opinion of Clinton (I happen to think he was the most disappointing president of my lifetime), that list is bullshit.

**Danno** · 08-07-2007, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

I follow your logic, but if the events of 9-11 had never happened, would congress have authorized Bush to use military force in Iraq? I seriously doubt it.

You're probably right, or at the very least there's a darn good chance you're right. However, knowing the hard-on this administration had for Iraq from the very beginning, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine them finding some other pretext that would have enabled them -- with a republican controlled congress -- to invade.

**fez** · 08-07-2007, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

Someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, rapes one of your daughters and beats her within an inch of her life. The people who did this to your daughter might not live in the chrackhouse at the end of the street, but you would get rid of it anyway because it is contributing to the environment that lead to your daughter getting raped.

Iraq was the crackhouse at the end of the street. Deal with it.

better analogy would be iraq was the skin head gang at the end of the street that beat the crap out of the crack heads when they showed up. and when you take out them the crackheads realize the territory is up for grabs.

**MeatPuppet** · 08-07-2007, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by fez

better analogy would be iraq was the skin head gang at the end of the street that beat the crap out of the crack heads when they showed up. and when you take out them the crackheads realize the territory is up for grabs.

I'm down with that analogy.

I guess cleaning up the neighborhood is going to be a little tougher and take a little longer than we initially thought.

In the end, we'll be better off for having done it.

**sftc** · 08-07-2007, 11:20 PM

Was "draft dodging" a felony during Vietnam?
what about falsifying medical records to avoid the draft?
What about "not reporting for duty"?
What about not showing up for reserve service?

Hummmm....

I think I remember reading about Carter giving a blanket pardon to all "draft dodgers", just to clear the slate, but I can't be sure. It let people come back from Canada.

**grrrr** · 08-07-2007, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

Someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, rapes one of your daughters and beats her within an inch of her life. The people who did this to your daughter might not live in the chrackhouse at the end of the street, but you would get rid of it anyway because it is contributing to the environment that lead to your daughter getting raped.

Iraq was the crackhouse at the end of the street. Deal with it.

And after breaking into the crackhouse with your baseball bat, you get your ass kicked to sunday and stabbed three times. Nice move.

**MeatPuppet** · 08-07-2007, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

And after breaking into the crackhouse with your baseball bat, you get your ass kicked to sunday and stabbed three times. Nice move.

Without a doubt, the war was mismanaged. I've stated this several times in other threads. This fact has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of going to war in the first place, and by no stretch of the imagination have we gotten or ass kicked. Our military has done a phenomenal job, within the confines put on it by the politicians.

**Grange** · 08-08-2007, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

Someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, rapes one of your daughters and beats her within an inch of her life. The people who did this to your daughter might not live in the chrackhouse at the end of the street, but you would get rid of it anyway because it is contributing to the environment that lead to your daughter getting raped.

Iraq was the crackhouse at the end of the street. Deal with it.

Did you get that analogy from Hannity?

So we go into the crack house with this ficticious scared little girl's brothers and sisters and spend the formidable years of her life in a fight we won't win without help from the people living the up stairs apartment because we busted down their door and set up headquarters in their kitchen which led them to have to steal from the neighbors fridge because they can't get in their's with us in the kitchen.

Now while the ficticious scared little girl is growing up without a father and some of her brothers and sisters are dying, because we're bogged down fighting in that crack house the two meth labs down the block (N. Korea and Iran) are expanding their territory because they know we're too busy battling inside that crack house.

And All this time the rapist that attacked the ficticious scared little girl is living in one of the neighbors basement taunting the little girl and the closest we came to him was busting down the door of his home next door to where he is currently living and set up another base in his kitchen while his roomates attack us.

Yep we're dealing with it alright.

I also forgot mention that our neighborhood had an effective neighborhood watch program that was keeping an eye on and severely limiting the crack house's ability to peddle crack to our children while the two meth labs previously mentioned were doing a damn fine job getting around the neighborhood watch program.

**jon gaper** · 08-08-2007, 08:16 AM

fahrenheit 911. thanks dw for showing just how smart you really are

**philippeR** · 08-08-2007, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

Without a doubt, the war was mismanaged. I've stated this several times in other threads. This fact has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of going to war in the first place, and by no stretch of the imagination have we gotten or ass kicked. Our military has done a phenomenal job, within the confines put on it by the politicians.

Sidetracked comment :
How comes every one always feel obliged to to pay respect to the military ? How comes the 'military wonderful job' is never discussed ? That's not dissing the individual service men or women, who put their lifes on the line, indeed, to discuss how the military perform. It looks like that's the only US institution you're not allowed to criticize.
You got this never seen before in history military forces, billions and billions of $ are sucked every years in it, and it's always the fault of the politicians. That's not healthy.

**Tippster** · 08-08-2007, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

I'm down with that analogy.

I guess cleaning up the neighborhood is going to be a little tougher and take a little longer than we initially thought.

In the end, we'll be better off for having done it.

Or somebody new comes along - like MS13.

Since 3/4 of the original Bush cabinet was directly involved in Desert Storm I'd say we were going into Iraq regardless. The "excuse" of 9-11 is so flimsy - they would have had more justification invading Northern Ireland or NE Spain to combat terrorism.

**BmillsSkier** · 08-08-2007, 12:02 PM

Yawn...

however there were these two gems in here:

Originally Posted by Bob O

this is interesting. BUT, I have a question for you.

Is it better to spend ridiculous amounts of money, time and lives to fight terrorism? (a battle that is almost impossible to win)

OR

Is it better to focus on improving life in the US?

Remember under Clinton we had a budget surplus?

Bush= 8.9 trillion in debt........so everyone in the US owes $29,552.38.

take your pick.

You do realize that the national debt is not the same as a budget deficit or surplus right? Cause that's a big difference. Just checking.

Originally Posted by David Witherspoon

GWB Facts? Could be interesting ...
[Insert entire script of Fahrenheit911]

Oh man, this is too funny... Credibility meter for DW is skyrocketing...

**Jer** · 08-08-2007, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by jon gaper

fahrenheit 911. thanks dw for showing just how smart you really are

thanks jg for showing (once again) just how slow-witted you really are.

Compare the original post, my response to it, and the post you think reveals my "bible."
At least Bmills was cleverly ambiguous about it.

**mnflyfish** · 08-08-2007, 01:14 PM

Ya know, I was never a huge fan of Clinton, didn't vote for him, etc. but he's been out of office for almost 8 years. I still would like to play golf with the man, I'd bet he'd be a blast to have a couple beers with. I too have a particular dislike for Hill, think Obama would be a far better candidate, even Edwards, but how is this post "about" Bill relavent? Troll!

Jay

**Maurice Ballstein** · 08-08-2007, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by mnflyfish

Ya know, I was never a huge fan of Clinton, didn't vote for him, etc. but he's been out of office for almost 8 years. I still would like to play golf with the man, I'd bet he'd be a blast to have a couple beers with. I too have a particular dislike for Hill, think Obama would be a far better candidate, even Edwards, but how is this post "about" Bill relavent? Troll!

Jay

If relevance was a prereq for the Padded Room, there wouldn't be one. I was just conducting my own TGR socio-political experiment. Simply wondering whether these were fact-based contentions surely brought out the usual crop.

**fez** · 08-08-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

I'm down with that analogy.

I guess cleaning up the neighborhood is going to be a little tougher and take a little longer than we initially thought.

In the end, we'll be better off for having done it.

if by cleaning up you mean burning to the ground, sure, i guess we are cleaning up the neighborhood.

**Jer** · 08-08-2007, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Maurice Ballstein

I was just conducting my own TGR socio-political experiment.

MB = DW alias??

**Jer** · 08-08-2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

And after breaking into the crackhouse with your baseball bat, you get your ass kicked to sunday and stabbed three times. Nice move.

That analogy only works if you get your news exclusively from far-left blogsites.

**Lonnie** · 08-08-2007, 01:53 PM

I wonder what tune all of you would be singing today if we were in Iraq and we had the draft today....

**Tye 1on** · 08-08-2007, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Lonnie

I wonder what tune all of you would be singing today if we were in Iraq and we had the draft today....

Yeah, true, i'd go from absolutely against it to, wait, absolutely against it.

**stupendous man** · 08-08-2007, 01:56 PM

Our military has done a phenomenal job, within the confines put on it by the politicians.

GWB has removed anyone who disagreed with him. the list of generals saying we should leave Iraq is much longer than those who think we should stay.

This fact has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of going to war in the first place, and by no stretch of the imagination have we gotten or ass kicked. Our military has done a phenomenal job, within the confines put on it by the politicians.

Dude. We have lost. Get it through the flag wrapped around your skull. GWB and Co. could never even define winning. There was no goal. And stop, because "freedom and liberty" is not a real condition. People are dying over there by the thousands. WAKE UP!