Business Suit Style?

**iceclimb** · 07-02-2007, 05:51 PM

Ok.. .you have lots of good advice here about suits... I'll give you some advice about the leadership thing.

My first day in two different leadership academy/seminars I was singled out because I was NOT wearing a suit. The guy tried to embarrass me at the one, the other, he just tried to use me as an example for the "rest of the class".

In both cases, I politely listened to what they had to say, and at the end they started down the road to the next lesson, and I stopped them, saying "excuse me... but leadership isn't about the way we're dressed, it's about understanding the impact of our actions on those around us isn't it?"

a gruff "yes" with an undertone "of what's yer point?"

"Well sir, I'm leading a group of artists, who don't respect people because they dress a certain way, if anything they distrust the administrators who are nicely dressed. I'm dressed this way because I know from experience that this group of people respects people who can get their hands dirty, and I've specifically chosen my mode of dress and how I act in order to motivate a certain group of people. After all, Leadership isn't about doing things right, it's about the right things."

Do NOT try to be a sheep.. this is a LEADERSHIP seminar. LEAD.. take risks. State a vision and act on it.

fuck the norm.

**Odin** · 07-02-2007, 05:55 PM

What if he is leading a team of accountants for Deloitte and Touche?

Is he suposed to integrate peachtree into his suit with optional 10-key functional pocket?

**iceclimb** · 07-02-2007, 06:02 PM

Lead with what YOU know are YOUR strengths... as I also work as an artist, that worked for me... in the case of Toilett and Douche, well didn't work for them, but for another consultant that rhymes with Hamderson, i wore a suit, but still challenged the dress code regularly, and often challenged the way we did business. My unit pissed off the managers because we did things differently... but made the managers managers happy because we kicked ass on our monthlys.

basically... dream really big, and make it happen, but don't lose your soul. Oh yeah.. and storytelling... which sounds like a load of crap... works, if you relate to your own stories... so my teams learned a lot about moutaineering and skiing. They learn to not question whether you'll take a risk or not!

**gh444** · 07-02-2007, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Odin

What if he is leading a team of accountants for Deloitte and Touche?

He isn't or he would already have suits.

That being said, if you feel you need a suit for the seminars, go buy two from jo s. bank, nordstroms (not "the rack", shirts, belts, cuff links and shoes are fine at "the rack" but you probably dont know shit about what size or cut you need and neither do the staffers at "the rack"), saks, or another nice department store. generally they stick by their product and you can get the same discounts as the outlets. you need a dark charcoal grey and a dark blue (NO BLACK). two or three button. vents, pinstripes and pleats as you like. dont wait until the last minute. plan on spending $300-$500 including tailoring. don't use the pocket hanky (it looks cheesy unless youre at a semi formal dinner/fundraiser/art opening). buy cuff links, shirts that fit, at least two belts and two pairs of dress shoes. and finally, don't count on these lasting you 20 yrs, a 20yr old suit looks 20yrs old. you can do the whole thing for under a grand.

-aaron

**cj001f** · 07-02-2007, 06:22 PM

cufflinks = lumbergland.

no cufflinks.

go grey and blue no pinstripes. you don't buy suits to be distinctive

**gh444** · 07-02-2007, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by iceclimb

Ok.. .you have lots of good advice here about suits... I'll give you some advice about the leadership thing.

My first day in two different leadership academy/seminars I was singled out because I was NOT wearing a suit. The guy tried to embarrass me at the one, the other, he just tried to use me as an example for the "rest of the class".

In both cases, I politely listened to what they had to say, and at the end they started down the road to the next lesson, and I stopped them, saying "excuse me... but leadership isn't about the way we're dressed, it's about understanding the impact of our actions on those around us isn't it?"

a gruff "yes" with an undertone "of what's yer point?"

"Well sir, I'm leading a group of artists, who don't respect people because they dress a certain way, if anything they distrust the administrators who are nicely dressed. I'm dressed this way because I know from experience that this group of people respects people who can get their hands dirty, and I've specifically chosen my mode of dress and how I act in order to motivate a certain group of people. After all, Leadership isn't about doing things right, it's about the right things."

Do NOT try to be a sheep.. this is a LEADERSHIP seminar. LEAD.. take risks. State a vision and act on it.

fuck the norm.

so your vision was to make all of the "suit" wearers look inferior and then you trapped and questioned authority.......good leadership plan.

**focus** · 07-02-2007, 07:30 PM

My $0.02: As somebody said earlier, there's a good chance the jacket won't get a lot of wear. The pants should therefore be able to stand alone. The fit and style should be similar to something you might buy if all you were looking for was a pair of nice dress pants.

edit to add: making an issue out of wearing or not wearing a suit is dumb. I don't know how that's supposed to be "leadership advice," but it sucks. Sometimes, in some lines of work, ya gotta wear a suit. You don't make strong positive statements about your ethos through dress non/conformity. Ever. Save the fight for something that frickin matters. You aren't a revolutionary or a "free thinker," you're an adolescent.

As for storytelling.... wtf?

**Grange** · 07-02-2007, 08:50 PM

I ended up going with a dark blue 2-button suit with subtle brown and whitish pinstripes from Men's Warehouse. Not exactly what I wanted, but it was in my price range. The suit came with a vest, but I doubt I'll wear it. I bought a shirt and tie as well. The tie is the best part of the suit. Now to be proper I should buy brown shoes, but I figure as often as I am going to wear this thing my black wingtips will work.

As far as showing leadership. I do, which is why I was selected for this Academy in the first place. We were to specifically to wear a suit, by the director of the Academy. To not show up in a suit would not signal leadership. It would signal disregard for my superiors.

**~mikey b** · 07-02-2007, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Grange

As far as showing leadership. I do, which is why I was selected for this Academy in the first place. We were to specifically to wear a suit, by the director of the Academy. To not show up in a suit would not signal leadership. It would signal disregard for my superiors.

that made me laugh outloud and blow beer out my nose - where do you people work?

fuck suits - I haven't worn a suit or a tie since jr prom

**Parvo** · 07-02-2007, 09:26 PM

i'm in the new suit market so i can start interviewing for a new job (for reasons made painfully clear in the ex-gf-new-titty-thread).

in my 15-year career, i've never worn a suit. so i polled a couple metro friends, one queer, and a buddy in the fashion industry and the consensus: Men's Warehouse and get two ties, two shirts (cuz i'll prolly need a new look for a follow-up interview) one pair pants and one suit jacket. the key, they tell me, is to get something that fits, but it certainly doesn't need to be a fancy label.

but i won't be interviewing for any job that requires the daily wear of a suit, so why go through the expense of something really nice that will only lanquish in my closet until the next funeral or wedding.

**pappag** · 07-02-2007, 10:56 PM

Sioe more thoughts

Macy's is good. You may not got the3 BEst of the BEST suits, but you can find a decent deal for <$300 ... and something that actually fits right.

Another more pretentious option is the 3-piece suit. There are many facets to the 3-piece suit that make it desireable. One, you look money. Two, it pukes of confidence (good for the interview, but maybe not because it may be seen as over the top). Three, it allows for the ultimate effect of the double windsor in giving you that full look with a wide spread shirt (I guess this may only work for guys that have the built). Four, you can lose the jacket and still look fucking money. Five, no one else dons it so if in a group of 20 cattle waiting to be stripped down (job-wise), you'll stand and most often, it will be in a positive way.

Cheers.

EDIT - shirts are solid, ties are patterned but make sure that your tie doesn't dominate your whole attire. Remember, you want people to look at your face, not your tie (or your mismatching shoes).

**Arty50** · 07-02-2007, 11:37 PM

I just want to add that the Men's suit department at Nordstroms is excellent. They wait on you hand and foot and they're extremely professional. They'll take you from suits, to shirts, to ties, to shoes, etc. And if you don't want or need any of that, they won't push you. To this day, it's one of the best shopping experiences I've ever had. I have 4 suits from them and consistently get compliments on them all. The tailoring is excellent also.

**runethechamp** · 07-03-2007, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Nick Pappagiorgio

Sioe more thoughts

Macy's is good. You may not got the3 BEst of the BEST suits, but you can find a decent deal for <$300 ... and something that actually fits right.

Another more pretentious option is the 3-piece suit. There are many facets to the 3-piece suit that make it desireable. One, you look money. Two, it pukes of confidence (good for the interview, but maybe not because it may be seen as over the top). Three, it allows for the ultimate effect of the double windsor in giving you that full look with a wide spread shirt (I guess this may only work for guys that have the built). Four, you can lose the jacket and still look fucking money. Five, no one else dons it so if in a group of 20 cattle waiting to be stripped down (job-wise), you'll stand and most often, it will be in a positive way.

Cheers.

EDIT - shirts or solid, ties are patterned but make sure that your tie doesn't dominate your whole attire. Remember, you want people to look at your face, not your tie (or your mismatching shoes).

Almost in the same way as with a pocket square, a 3-piecer needs to be followed up by everything else in your attire to be pulled off. And it's not fit for all businesses either.

And don't be afraid to have a pattern in your shirt (it's possible to pull off patterns in both suit, shirt and tie at the same time). Just make sure you keep the scale and type of the patterns (if you wear more than one) different.

**Grange** · 07-03-2007, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by telemike

that made me laugh outloud and blow beer out my nose - where do you people work?

fuck suits - I haven't worn a suit or a tie since jr prom

I work in the environmental field so the only other time I wore a suit was for my interview to get the job. I've only wore a tie a handful of times when I was giving interviews. What I'm wearing today is Khaki pants and a Lennie's t-shirt. So when asked to wear a suit it that's not something to be taken lightly.

I went to Macy's and the only thing they had that I like was over $300. Too much for me at this time.

**lemon boy** · 07-03-2007, 08:50 AM

Grange, you'll be fine and don't worry about all the stupid little bullshit about a suit. Don't worry about the shoes, don't worry about the knot or the tie or the shirt.

As long as it fits and is clean you'll be fine. People that would think less of you for some silly faux pas on your suit are weenies that have to wear them all the time, do you really care what somebody who made such poor life choices as to be stuck wearing suits for work all the time thinks? Yeah, me neither.

**Odin** · 07-03-2007, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

faux pas

Hey JETHRO! He be talkin bout them fox paws again!

Someone Git the GUN!

**Jackie Treehorn** · 07-03-2007, 09:52 AM

A friend of mine used to teach George Zimmer's (owner of Mens Wearhouse and douchebag in the commercials) kid, and she said he was one of the biggest assholes she had ever met in her life. The dad, not the kid. Although the kid was a punk too.

Mens Wearhouse isn't even that cheap. I think you can get a better deal at a department store. Brooks Brothers used to have great sales - about 5-6 years ago I got some $800 suits for about $200 - but not so much anymore.

**Grange** · 07-03-2007, 10:03 AM

I tried the Department stores, but they didn't have much selection and sizing was difficult. I could find a jacket that fit well, but the pants were too damn big.

**iceclimb** · 07-03-2007, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by focus

My $0.02: As somebody said earlier, there's a good chance the jacket won't get a lot of wear. The pants should therefore be able to stand alone. The fit and style should be similar to something you might buy if all you were looking for was a pair of nice dress pants.

edit to add: making an issue out of wearing or not wearing a suit is dumb. I don't know how that's supposed to be "leadership advice," but it sucks. Sometimes, in some lines of work, ya gotta wear a suit. You don't make strong positive statements about your ethos through dress non/conformity. Ever. Save the fight for something that frickin matters. You aren't a revolutionary or a "free thinker," you're an adolescent.

As for storytelling.... wtf?

I know it's already to late to not hijack the thread, and glad to say you know what you're in for. And that's the point of my post.... not making a stink about a suit or not, but knowing what's important to the people you're working with... in my case, it's not about suits... suits create distrust in the group I work with. Not about "statements or ethos", it's about knowing the people and the culture. If I were in a different line of work, (as I stated, can you read?) I'd wear the suit.... the point is to be aware that when I'm in a leadership seminar, and told that i should be wearing a suit, by someone who isn't aware of the reasons I might have for dressing the way I do... well.. it's not very good leadership on their part.

As for getting a suit, the only advice I'll give on that is steer clear of Brooks Brothers... their stuff has been crap since the mid 90's when the changed suppliers. If you can save the $$... find a tailor and have one made, they last far longer, and fit much better. In some cases i've had custom made suits for as little as $400, though you got to really search for that. (If you're in Venice... I know a place....

)

**The AD** · 07-03-2007, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by bagtagley

Hey, they've got Seersuckers for $99. I hate suits, but I've always wanted one of those.

Big fan of Matlock, huh?

Originally Posted by iceclimb

"Well sir, I'm leading a group of artists, who don't respect people because they dress a certain way, if anything they distrust the administrators who are nicely dressed. I'm dressed this way because I know from experience that this group of people respects people who can get their hands dirty, and I've specifically chosen my mode of dress and how I act in order to motivate a certain group of people. After all, Leadership isn't about doing things right, it's about the right things."

After your speech did someone in the back stand up and slowly start clapping until he was joined by everyone else in the room, which eventually turned into thunderous applause?

**lemon boy** · 07-03-2007, 10:24 AM

iceclimb-
I'm sorry but that's dumb.

**Steven S. Dallas** · 07-03-2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

iceclimb-
I'm sorry but that's dumb.

I was going to say "retarded," but your leadership abilities have caused me to reevaluate and reconsider.

**lemon boy** · 07-03-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas

I was going to say "retarded," but your leadership abilities have caused me to reevaluate and reconsider.

No, don't do that. I've been saying dumb or stupid lately instead of retarded and gay (respectively) in an obvious capitulation to the forces of evil PCism. So please...have at it.

I did just use the term redneck though so I'm not completely reformed.

**Steven S. Dallas** · 07-03-2007, 10:45 AM

I think you could make a great movie about the adventures of a retarded gay person who, somehow, teaches rednecks that it's okay to be retarded and gay. I'll need a pretty sweet suit to pitch this thing, though.

**CUBUCK** · 07-03-2007, 10:50 AM

If you know your size check out ctshirts.com. I would consider it the UK brooks brothers. They have a great deal going on now for some suits, think $750-$800 marked down to $350ish.... I was impressed with the quality of the ones I own, the pants have held up far better then BB though I'm not sure I would go as far as to call BB crap.