Why do you need a stiff boot for riding?

I mean, why? I believe that the only place where it is useful is groomers and ice. I've got a Lange Comp 120 and they are perfect while i'm ripping hard snow, but hell, they can't absorb any little bumps, they transfer shock right to your shins! And they require very accurate landing on the whole ski (or in deep pow), because when you're landing on your tails you got your shins banged (especially if your skis got a stiff tails). And in the pow your slightest front/rear movements are transferred to your skis instantly and if you go slow and your ski toes are short (like my 186 mojos) - you will sink.

What do you think?

Totally misread the title..

That is all.

Cuz chicks dig'em, isn't that enuff?

If not you may not need a stiff boot for 186's. Though the reason stiff is nice is big skis @ speed = more control. Skis, especially big, phat and stiff, can easily overpower your boots. You make a movement and the ski just wants to do its own thing. I've recently run into this problem w/ my big daddy's. So stiffer boots in the near future, for me. Though for riding the park/pipe or touring, soft flexing boots work fine. I use my alpine boots in my AT setup just for better power tranfer. Same reason lotsa big stiff tele boots are out there. Bigger skis overpowering the boot.
:p

I have the opposite probelm than duboix. i have POS old lange banshee 7s and both my scratch bcs and my XXs overpower them. it was REALLY bad when i got on a pair of exploders in crud....

frikin soft, too big boots.

I think it's different factors, including;

Height / weight
Aggresiveness
Terrain
Purpose (chasing gates vs. BC, etc..)

I will always ski a fairly stiff boot, I like the response of a stiff boot versus a softer one. If your big enough you can flex out a boot, basically feel the boot pooch out, or fold under you.
I think it's a balance between too stiff and too soft, I definitely like a softer boot for park, etc, and a stiffer one for chasing sticks, for the same reason I don't freeski in a race boot.

Just make sure you can actually flex your boot... leaning forward and shoving out your ass is NOT flexing.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
Just make sure you can actually flex your boot... leaning forward and shoving out your ass is NOT flexing.

---

No, your right that is Schussing in Europe or the Texan tuck in the U.S.;)

I'm kinda thinking the same thing. Since I moved to Flexons I've realised that a softer flex is better for the skiing that I like to do the most (everything not ice/hardpack...or bumbs, but they're better for that too.) However only too a point. I did add boosters to mine and still would ike to try a stiffer tongue. I'm not totally sold either way, but I'm convinced that softer can be better.

I've realized the same...

After changing from racing boots to freeride boots I felt much more comfortable in powder, crud or anywhere outside the groomers.

I love my current Lange Banshees. Just a right combination of flex and stiffness, and they're light as hell, with special raichle/kneissl type of inner boot (which is also great for avoiding shin bang!)

More control..more safety....For most stuff I ride Richlee F1 Pro's ....they are rather stiff, for Touring I have Lowa Struka Evo's....Yes I can ski almost everything (skis and conditions) with my Lowa's but I have tto be slower and more precise in what I do...I can't just go charging around....difficult snow pushes skis around, the added flexabilityof the lowa's gives the ski a chance to turn befor me feet and legs get to counteract this hence a less stable but more comfortable ride...but not neccesarily less exahusting...I can just lean on my stiff boots to make the skis turn, I don't have to push them around.

I am hoping to get my greasy mitts on some of the new Garmont Adrenalines this week. They could be interesting - the guy I spoke to (a former Salomon WC boot tech) thought they were as stiff as top-of-the line Sallys. Could be interesting having an AT boot that is stiffer than most alpine ones...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Mulletizer
I am hoping to get my greasy mitts on some of the new Garmont Adrenalines this week. They could be interesting - the guy I spoke to (a former Salomon WC boot tech) thought they were as stiff as top-of-the line Sallys. Could be interesting having an AT boot that is stiffer than most alpine ones...

---

Really curious to see what you think, this could be the boot, that gets me out of Alpines.

Hey Mulletizer, what's the scoop on the Adrenalines? Are they going to be in stores soon? There's no mention of them on the Garmont website, so I took that as a "it's going to be awhile". Like most gear sluts I've been drooling over those things (hope they fit my foot).

Yeah, I'm with CaddyDaddy. These could be the perfect all around boot.

The problem I found when getting new boots is that in the 70* shop the plastic in the boot is softer so it feels like a soft flexing boot. Until you get in the cold on the slopes then the whole picture changes. I found the best method is to have a soft flex boot and a stiff flex boot. Kinda of like having a two ski quiver for different conditions. So , in cold weather I break out the soft flex boot and in the warmer weather the stiff flex boot. Just for the record they are Soft--Rossignol Freeride XX. Stiff--Rossignol Course Kevlar KX. Just my two cents worth:eek:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Mountain Junkie
Hey Mulletizer, what's the scoop on the Adrenalines? Are they going to be in stores soon? There's no mention of them on the Garmont website, so I took that as a "it's going to be awhile". Like most gear sluts I've been drooling over those things (hope they fit my foot).

Yeah, I'm with CaddyDaddy. These could be the perfect all around boot.

---

I talked with a shop guy at Wilson Backcountry who will be carrying the boots and he said it is a Fall '04 release.

The better your boot fits, the softer it can flex. You want leg motion to be translated to ski motion as efficiently as possible, but you want as soft a flex as possible so crud and landings don't beat your shins up.

This is why I can get away with Daleboots, which are fairly soft: they fit perfectly, since full bootfitting and heat-molded liners are part of the deal.

I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who weighs more than I do and skis fast, though <cough>Endless</cough>. I've got the shell riveted together, so all the flex is from the plastic instead of from the hinge and the spring, and they're just barely stiff enough.

Been riding a new pair of Garmont G Rides this year. Pretty good in everything but high speed fast snow (can't get enough tip pressure to quiet the ski tip).
Prefer my old Technica Explosion 10's for most skiing, however. Even in pow and especially in crud it is nice to have a stiffer more secure fit.
Will be selling my G Rides next Fall and buying the Adrenaline. It may be the one boot solution I dream of.
Wonder why Garmont does not offer stiffer tongues for its boots. You could easily pop in a super stiff tongue for in bounds and a softy for BC skinning.
The forward lock lever and the Vibram soles are so sweet for walking around or scrambling over rocks, scree and ice.
I don't think the walk lever softens the boot as much as the soft plastics do. I think they can and will make a pretty darn stiff boot that still lets you stand like a normal human being with your ankle at 90 degrees (a real pleasure for those tram rides).

Any current (2008) thoughts on stiff boots?

Last night, I bought a pair of Nordica SpeedMachine 14s* to replace my old Nordica Grand Prix. The Grand Prix fit well and I never had any problems with them except for some shin bang (particularly after days where I'd ski fast through crud). The SpeedMachines fit like the Grand Prix and seem to about as stiff. The fit is very good. My only concern is the boots' stiffness.

Would I be better off with softer boots, say, the SpeedMachine 12s? I'm 6'1", 185 lbs., 31 years old, usually ski Prophet 100s or Praxis (though I may get something along the lines of the XXLs next year), like to ski fairly fast and huck a little, make occassional laps the park, don't race, hope to get into the backcountry 6-8x a year, and don't really care about groomer performance. I'm pretty sure that the SpeedMachine 14s will be at least a decent boot, as they fit and flex like my old Grand Prix. But I haven't owned a softer boot since I was in high school (Flexons -> TNTs -> Grand Prix -> Now) and am wondering if I might avoid my shin bang problems with a softer boot.

*REI is selling them for $500 right now, which is about $200 cheaper than a lot of places. I assume that I can return my SpeedMachines for cash or a different boot, if necessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duboix

and if you go slow and your ski toes are short (like my 186 mojos) - you will sink.

---

Ski toes? I'm so confused right now.

*edit* And holy crap, way to bump the oldest thread ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mulletizer

I am hoping to get my greasy mitts on some of the new Garmont Adrenalines this week. They could be interesting - the guy I spoke to (a former Salomon WC boot tech) thought they were as stiff as top-of-the line Sallys. Could be interesting having an AT boot that is stiffer than most alpine ones...

---

Fuck, how wrong was he?! I guess they were better than what we had before though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koolaideprived

Ski toes? I'm so confused right now.

*edit* And holy crap, way to bump the oldest thread ever.

---

I didn't want to be yelled at by the search-function screamers. (They scare me.:eek:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mulletizer

I am hoping to get my greasy mitts on some of the new Garmont Adrenalines this week. They could be interesting - the guy I spoke to (a former Salomon WC boot tech) thought they were as stiff as top-of-the line Sallys. Could be interesting having an AT boot that is stiffer than most alpine ones...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaddyDaddy77

Really curious to see what you think, this could be the boot, that gets me out of Alpines.

---

Don't know your sizes, but you could get these for cheapish. Make an offer:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=111127

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AKbruin

Any current (2008) thoughts on stiff boots?

Last night...

---

I think thoughts are now as they were the. The exact reasons the original poster said was the bad things with stiff boots are form other people (like me*) the good things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duboix

I've got a Lange Comp 120 and they are perfect while i'm ripping hard snow, but hell, they can't absorb any little bumps, they transfer shock right to your shins!

---

I don' mind some small hits. But if you whack into something big time, a soft boot is gonna fold and a stiff one will take up the energy in a better way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duboix

And they require very accurate landing on the whole ski (or in deep pow), because when you're landing on your tails you got your shins banged (especially if your skis got a stiff tails).

---

I see this as more of a problem with a bad fitting cuff (or a too stiff boot that was tried to made softer by not clamping it tight).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duboix

And in the pow your slightest front/rear movements are transferred to your skis instantly and if you go slow and your ski toes are short (like my 186 mojos) - you will sink.

---

Thats more a result of a bad ski design, in my opinion. When you're on the right ski, you can instead take advantage of the precision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duboix

What do you think?

---

Well, I think stiff boots are good.

Actually, when I first started skiing a "fatter" ski, the Explosve was my first ad if was fat back then, I also though I got a too direct contact with the snow. This made me loosed up cuffs a bit (but keep the power strap tight). But since then, I got used to the ski and now I like it hard again.

Anyway, its all very, very personal. The remarks above only reflect my personal views on it. A similar sized guy skiing the same runs on the same skis in a similar style might like super soft boots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AKbruin

to replace my old Nordica Grand Prix. The Grand Prix fit well and I never had any problems with them ...

I assume that I can return my SpeedMachines for cash or a different boot, if necessary.

---

If you happen to be a 25.5, I've got brand new Grand Prix for sale...PM me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neon

If you happen to be a 25.5, I've got brand new Grand Prix for sale...PM me.

---

That's an excellent deal, but I'm a 28.5.

HitMe- I appreciate the opinion.

Others- Just so you know, I bumped a relevant but dated (2004) thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AKbruin

Any current (2008) thoughts on stiff boots?

Last night, I bought a pair of Nordica SpeedMachine 14s* to replace my old Nordica Grand Prix. The Grand Prix fit well and I never had any problems with them except for some shin bang (particularly after days where I'd ski fast through crud). The SpeedMachines fit like the Grand Prix and seem to about as stiff. The fit is very good. My only concern is the boots' stiffness.

Would I be better off with softer boots, say, the SpeedMachine 12s? I'm 6'1", 185 lbs., 31 years old, usually ski Prophet 100s or Praxis (though I may get something along the lines of the XXLs next year), like to ski fairly fast and huck a little, make occassional laps the park, don't race, hope to get into the backcountry 6-8x a year, and don't really care about groomer performance. I'm pretty sure that the SpeedMachine 14s will be at least a decent boot, as they fit and flex like my old Grand Prix. But I haven't owned a softer boot since I was in high school (Flexons -> TNTs -> Grand Prix -> Now) and am wondering if I might avoid my shin bang problems with a softer boot.

*REI is selling them for $500 right now, which is about $200 cheaper than a lot of places. I assume that I can return my SpeedMachines for cash or a different boot, if necessary.

---

Frank, you may remember my experience from the camp. Stiff boots with soft skis after a long time on stiffer skis.

I ended up buying two pairs of boots to experiment for myself.

Good luck, AKBruin.

Those Garmont Adrenalines sound incredible.
That really threw me.

I love the fit and precision I get with my well fitted and softened (v-notched) plugs with intuition plug liners. The cuff is very well fitted to my scrawny calfs, but if I ski in them 2 days in a row I too get fairly uncomfortable shin-bang. I Goodwilled a pretty nice pair of decent fitting Flexon comps that I take along if I know I'm going to be skiing a number of consecutive days and they allow the shins to heal a bit, but I definitely don't get the precision with them and prefer the control I get with the plugs.

Shin bang, as others have said too, for me comes from skiing bumps, whoopdedoos on traverses or even mildly bumpy groomers. In powder and very smooth groomers they're dandy. It would be nice to get rid of the shin-bang though and be able to ski them days in a row without discomfort.

skiing a soft boot is a huge compromise for most of the mags, because of the way ppl around here ski (or at least claim to). you lose not only power transfer but the tactile connection with your boards because of more play in a soft boot. a stiff boot is better in crud and softish bumps too IMO b/c you can drive through them more effectively and avoid gettin pinballed around. i see soft boot applications in the bc as practical but even then only if its a decent length tour...

^^^ I had the speedmachines last year and they destroyed me. totally wrong last for my foot. stiffness was good...great, actually...but totally wrong fit. got them replaced with the Top Fuels from last year and am much happier.

as for stiffness (heh)...I agree with all the comments thus far...if it's a deep day and I'm just floatin, the first notch on the top buckles is all I need with the Nords.

I do switch between Adrenalines and the Top Fuels...but absolutely prefer to Top Fuels in-bounds, any conditions. it's a noticeable difference I think.

my .2

I've always skied stiff boots (Salomon Course) because I have very inflexible achilles. However, I just switched to Krptyon Pros which aren't soft but are much softer, and it has made my Nordica Blowers FAR more skiable.

With the stiff boot, I found them really twitchy. Slightest shin pressure and they'd hook instead of progressively tightening the turn. So arcing through crud was a nightmare because every bump would cause shin pressure and send the ski wherever it felt like. With a softer boot they are really easy, much more predictable. I actually enjoy them now.

We'll see how handle explosivs and i.M103s... I suspect poorly as I want to be able to drive through bumps rather than absorb them, and both require a lot of pressure to make short radius turns.

Short version: match the boot stiffness to the ski.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flip

Short version: match the boot stiffness to the ski.

---

I wouldn't make any sense to own that many pairs of boots.
:fmicon:

I was pondering the same thing this year. I replaced some Technica Diablos with Nordicas because the Nordicas fit my wierd feet better. I was torn between the stiffer and softer versions of the same boot and went for the stiffer because the bootfitter (Corty Lawrence at Footloose in Mammoth) told me it's easier to make them softer later if you want. (The nordicas have little tabs in the back that you can cut, making them flex more.)

Also, now that I got my intuitions from the group buy, I'm definitely going to soften them up. They feel way more responsive now and I don't think the stiffness is as necessary even with big skis.

Somebody said it's about finding the right balance. I think that's the key - whatever works for you. Too soft/sloppy is bad for performance obviously, but so is too stiff and unforgiving too when you're pounding through crud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whorehey

Frank, you may remember my experience from the camp. Stiff boots with soft skis after a long time on stiffer skis.

I ended up buying two pairs of boots to experiment for myself.

Good luck, AKBruin.

Those Garmont Adrenalines sound incredible.
That really threw me.

---

Yeah man, I thought of you when I bought them. The thing is that I don't think my new boots are very different from my old boots, so the worst case scenario is a continuation of the status quo, which ain't bad.

Did I read somewhere that you're heading to Gordy's Whistler camp? Lucky bastard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oftpiste

I wouldn't make any sense to own that many pairs of boots.
:fmicon:

---

I'm gonna start a thread with photos of my gnarly boot quiver. It's gonna be sick! :wink:

Atlas- Yeah, I'm leaning towards keeping them with the thought that they fit well and I could probably soften them up in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oftpiste

I wouldn't make any sense to own that many pairs of boots.
:fmicon:

---

Well within reason, obviously. Just saying that telling everyone they should ski a super stiff plug makes no sense if they ski coombas and pocket rockets, and similarly claiming a soft boot is the shit makes no sense for someone on i.M103s.

Considering lots of folks on this board have a softer touring boot and stiffer resort boot, it's not that hard to ski your soft boot with your soft skis and stiff boot with stiff ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mulletizer

I am hoping to get my greasy mitts on some of the new Garmont Adrenalines this week. They could be interesting - the guy I spoke to (a former Salomon WC boot tech) thought they were as stiff as top-of-the line Sallys. Could be interesting having an AT boot that is stiffer than most alpine ones...

---

I have Adenalines as my touring boot. I found them a bit soft skiing the lifts, but I think I was also a shell size too big, I seem to be in between shells sizes with Garmont. My Endorphins are the next size down and they had to be punched in the toes slightly. Being a size smaller, I was able to get a more performance fit. That boot is stiff enough to ski frontside like an alpine boot. It is probably about a 110 flex. This is the way I have fit my alpine boots as well. Get a shell size that is snug and punch the shell where there are any pressure points. A good fit is as important as the right flex. As for the Adrenalines, I was going to sell them, but a friend had the same problem and put oversize Intuition liners in them, heat fit them and not only solved the size problem, but stiffened them up a bit. I'm not a hug fan of Garmont liners anyway. I may try this as it worked for me with my last Alpine boots once the liners packed out and I managed to get several more years of life out of them. The Adrenalines are certainly more comfortable being a bit roomier and less stiff for long tours, and a bit lighter than the Endorphines, but I like the way the Endorphines ski better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flip

Well within reason, obviously. Just saying that telling everyone they should ski a super stiff plug makes no sense if they ski coombas and pocket rockets, and similarly claiming a soft boot is the shit makes no sense for someone on i.M103s.

Considering lots of folks on this board have a softer touring boot and stiffer resort boot, it's not that hard to ski your soft boot with your soft skis and stiff boot with stiff ones.

---

Um, that was kind of a jokingly rhetorical remark. I have a lot of skis. To match all my skis with boots would require too many boots. Humor. Poor attempt though I think AKbruin got it.

Also can't find where I told everyone they should ski a plug for everything. Matter of fact I said I had another, softer pair too. Merely related my own experience and the positives and negatives thereof. I would never presume - especially in this forum - to tell anyone what they should do!

Epilogue: I tried the Speedmachine 14s last weekend. They were comfortable and sooo much easier to get in and out of, but a little too stiff for my purposes. So I took them back for a full refund at REI, whose liberal return policy has made me a loyal customer.

I just ordered the 12s from Backcountry.com.

Look forward to hearing how they ski for you...
I'll let you know how my 110's ski at Whistler (insert finger-moustache here)
I suck at the internetz.

I ski the Garmont Adrenalin and I'm thinking it is actually a perfect boot for the new reverse/reverse skis. I just got some Praxis. After reading the McConkeys guide to the Spat and trying it out, I think the softer/more upright boots might be perfect for reverse/reverse skis. You are supposed to be centered and not necessarily drive the ski.

Of course that still leaves my Adrenalins perhaps less-than-perfect on non-fresh resort days but such is life.