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Wow, there's some disturbing photos in there. It'll be interesting to watch the fallout once these are shown on TV tonight.
Silkscreen some unflattering images of Mohammed on the guards' shirts and you've got a winner!!!!
Rapeist... thats great. theyre in direct violation of the geneva convention AND they cant spell for shit.
This will not be good.
I am not a fan of abu graib, but damn, freaks be rioting over mutherfucking cartoons. This will not help the freak situation at all.
Thank you very much, Australian journalism.
Time to hold ourselves accountable, I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13
789
That Graner guy is a sick fuck.
you'd think that after two years you'd learn. do you even know what the Geneva Convention applies to? I'll give you a hint...it's not terrorists. To be a considered a POW it helps to be a soldier in uniform taken captive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil E
That being said. We could only lose in this situation. It'd be one thing if there was some upside to torture, but everything I've read pretty much refutes its use as an effective interrogation technique. though I guess they don't tell you they beat someone within an inch of their life to get information that leads to actionable and executed inteligence.
Mr Gyp, you are one sad fuck. I was going to say that a more sickening experience than viewing those pictures would be to tune into Rush or one of his sick imitators, and listen to them spin this to non puke status, but I guess we have someone right on the board to start the fun. You must be a sick, scared little puppy to think that is justified. Come live in upstate NY - there's plenty of prisons here - you could find a career that would make you happy to wake up every morning.
Two things to remember. None of these people were charged with a crime. They were caught up in the ultimate "round up the usual suspects" bad luck scene. And they were almost always tortured just for fun, because the torture never involved interrogation - they were abused, and then just led back to their cells. Nice, huh? Makes me proud.
We are fucked.
actually they were terrorists. that's why we're now having to send prisoners elsewhere because it's becoming a terrorist academy in abu ghraib.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Again, my original point is that the Geneva convention does not protect terrorists or non combatants. But the Army Code of Conduct does. That is why Graner and his cohorts are either in the klink or heading there.
as if I had to state it again. I do not support torture as an interrogation tactic, but it's not because people being beaten turns my stomach. It is because it has been proven that torture as an interrogation tactic does not provide actionable results. Christ, our prisons make Abu Ghraib seem like an after school special.
where's the outrage Benny?
I cannot bring myself to post the clip of the journalist being decpaitated with a bowie knife. I am sure some of you have seen it. It is a stark and disgusting reminder of the difference between the terrorists we are up against relative to the injustices at Abu Ghraib. War is sad and horrible in general, but I fear that too many people liken the United States' actions to those of terrorists. This does not diminish our responsibility to be accountable but it cannot go overlooked.
There is 0 proof of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_gyptian
Atleast his pain ended.Quote:
Originally Posted by commonlaw
These people have to live with it.
Live with being sharpied? That is tough. Fuck I'd rather be dead too.
edit:
"the photos america doesn't want seen" That's becuase we are embarassed of such behavior. They do want us to see them cutting people's heads off. Commonlaw is right. Harumph!!
You're a fucking idiot. But that's OK, a lot of Americans are, too, when it comes to this subject. Especially that moron most Americans voted for. How the fuck can you look at those pictures and say that?? What, did they all go back to their cells and have a little fucking class?? With a teacher??Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_gyptian
"Uh, Professor Ahmed, may I go the bathroom, praise Allah? ...Certainly, Saddam, but be careful around the vicious dogs and crazy ass white trash crackers running around! hahahaha"
Someday I'll take a handful of my outrage and shove it up your ass.
Dear posterQuote:
Originally Posted by Clack
You are obviously
A: Blind
B: Stupid
C: Unable to look at the origional article with more pictures
D: All of the above
Your solutions are:
A: Stop posting.
B: Kill yourself.
Either solution will work.
And just as an addenum, the first picture is the dude having his teeth forcibly removed sans anesthesia.
an idea, Benedict, would be to support your assertion with a fact. Like some type of proof that the detainees in Abu Ghraib were not in fact terrorists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
possibly we could start there.
channel your outrage towards pulling your head out of your ass.
I'd prefer to start with innocent until proven guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_gyptian
I don't know, maybe the mass rounding up of people in certain areas, also those who ran in fear from the dudes with guns also being rounded up and beaten?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_gyptian
You probably think the London PD were in the right for shooting that dude 4 times in the head too huh?
Innocent until proven guilty is definately a good starting place, something we seem to be missing.
Also, think how the "terrorists" feel and view things. If Iraq invaded the US (highly unlikely but bear with me) and occupied OUR country (which is how many Iraqis feel about us, we are occupying their home), we would surely be fighting back tooth and nail just as they are. We'd be kidnapping, bombing, attacking, doing whatever possible to fight them and get our freedom from oppression.
Calling them terrorists instead of POWs or enemy combatants is a very weak argument, and done only to avoid Geneva. Sick.
as would I. I'm sure the Iraqi's would also like to start with going to the voting booth to approve a constitution that gives them these rights with out getting suicide bombed.Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f
WOLVERINES!Quote:
Originally Posted by yentna
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...awn-yeller.jpg
possibly you'd prefer I refer to them as freedom fighters? these freedom fighters are lead by an Al Qaeda trained Jordanian. more than just a few of these freedom fighters are not from Iraq. The Iraqi's that are part of the insurgency are baathist's utilizing Iranian and Syrian funding to kill their own people. Bear with me Yentna, but would you support the occupied US citizens forwarding their cause by attacking fellow citizens? fellow citizens that only want a few basic human rights. again, you'll have to bear with me but your hypothetical could get a little more in touch with what is actually happening over there.Quote:
Originally Posted by yentna
BTW, I was wondering if you noticed how little the US populace cares about these old pictures? Maybe it's because the perpetrators are in the klink or on their way to the klink. Maybe it's because the Iraqi's have moved on and possibly we should too.
Terrorist or not has nothing to do with it. What they did does not justify treatment like that. Those soldiers are a bunch of sick fucks that take pleasure in torture, and (others) extreme pain and humiliation.
Support the troops!
:rolleyes:
Key points:Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_gyptian
Al Qaeda
"Terrists"
Baathists
I see your main news pipeline is Fox News.
I suppose you think the rescue of that chick (which was proven to be a huge fucking sham) was real too huh?
this was just on the other night. good times, good times. one of the pantheon 80s movies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
likwid, your posts get dumber and dumber every day. right now you're posting like its next week.
Likwid -> you're a fag and suck at skiing and or snowboarding :p :the_finge
NOOO!!! I like Gyp's concept of justice - you must prove you're not a terrorist.Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f
Gyp - prove to us YOU'RE NOT a terrorist!!
Gyptian is a witch, I mean terrorist, Burn him, burn him!!!
I know lets dunk him in water and if he floats - it means he's made of wood (and we all know witches and terrorist are made of wood), then we'll burn him.
I know this is the padded room and all, but sheesh.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitchell333
get a hold of yourself, man. You're starting to sound like Al Gore.
I had hoped we could all take a break from this subject, but Yeta that is ridiculous. First of all, If someone occupied our country I doubt 99% of the people we "blew" up would be our own women and children. Second, alot of the bombers, and certainly most of their leadership are foreigners.And finally if you have ever read the Geneva convention you would know that none of those people in Cuba, and most of the people we are fighting in Iraq legally qualify for protection from it. Have you noticed they have no uniforms and cut the heads of civilians. I am no expert, but I think we could execute them on the spot. Thats what we did in past wars. If we did not need intelligence from them I would hope that we would be executing those bastards on the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by yentna
A Very bad analogy.
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
Tell me how any of those animals in Cuba qualify for anything but a firing squad? Back in the big one, our Grandfathers shot people like this on the spot.
So, in that case, you advocate that we lock them up without any charges, no chance for fair trial (innocent until proven guilty, foundation of our justice system btw), for YEARS. No legal recourse since they are not classed as POWs or criminals. Mistreatment justified for people in limbo? You call them animals, what proof is there? Maybe some of them have committed heinous crimes, but what about the others? People that have been released with no charges? Were they animals too?
More pics!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/14/183059/640
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/..._470x375,0.jpg
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
I agree 100% that if we can prove these guys are doing the things that disqualify them from the Enemy Combatant status, then all bets off and yeah then they can be dispatched, but:
1) They have NOT been tried in a true court of law in any sense. Our system (and remember the planting of our democratic system is one of the main why we are purportedly in Iraq) of justice requires innocent until proven guilty. Any divergence from that system is hypocritical at best. We need to stay true to our principles of freedom and rule of law, not fall prey to our fears and vengence, both for ourselves and the rest of the world. We must take the high ground here, thats what this must be all about, showing the world that our system IS the right system, not just tyranny and injustice in the cloak of freedom and democracy.
2) Having Gitmo and Abu are counter productive. How many terrorist recruits have we driven to the recruiting offices for Al Zarqarwi, Hamas, English cells, etc, etc. GIs torturing and humilitating in Iraq and Gitmo at the same time we're justifying because Hussein was a tyrant and the terrorists are evil makes us hypocrites to most of the world. This is as much a struggle over world opinion and opinion in the arab world as it is a battle to kill terrorists and capture Bin Laden. There are more angry arab men and AK-47s than wecan destroykill in 100 years so our goal must be to effectively stop the flow of willing customers to terrorism in addition to interrupting their systems and development of weapons. We must win, and IMO we're doing more damage that any intelligence of dubious value.
3) That a few of our grandfathers did terrible things in the heat of battle on the side of right does is understandable, but does not justify us intentionally doing the same. Again we must take the moral high ground if we are to both believe ourselves in our cause and convince others to join us.
I agree with you. There are some great arguements to be made against this war, i just do not hear them very often. But the family and friends that I have had fighting in this war, didnt have anything to do with the decision to go to war. Asking them to fight a war fairly against people that will not take them prisoner, feed them or treat them even as animals in cage is unreasonable. Most of these prisoners were found out of uniform, with weapons, by men and women who risked their own lives to take them prisoner alive in the first place.
Yes we should not compromise our own morals by lowering ourselves to their level, I agree. That A hole in these pictures should given the death penalty as far as I am concerned. But how do we fight this war? It is not about tanks, or airplanes, it is about intelligence.
911 proved to us that people are willing to kill us at any cost. If given the right weapons, they would do great damage to the people and cities in this country. There are willing to live amongst us, pretend to be one of us, all while plotting to murder as many of us as possible. Sometimes I even feel Bush is a moron, but I understand that he sees a great threat in the future. This is not about conspiracy theories, or oil, it is about a nuclear exchange, that will render the world unskiable for quite sometime. Any loss of civil liberties, or reputation in the world we have incurred, will seem tiny compared to what will happen if these people succeed. And I am refering to what our response would be if they do succeed.
If we could determine that this threat was no longer genuine, which is getting harder and harder to do with the rhetoric comming outr of Tehran, we would release all these prisoners, as we did in past wars. But as it stands, many of the prisoners in Gitmo openly vow to return to the war on terror if released.
I made the reference to our Grandads war, I am worng, and so is anyone who cites the Geneva Convention. This is a whole new quagmire. And even if the Bush haters got everything they wanted, it would never change the fact that these people are hell bent on killing us all.
Now we have these Clerics making tours around the world trying to incite the masses for these stupid cartons. Their agenda is very clear. They are just not happy with the last 500 yrs of western Expansion. The world is changing, and even within our heavily insulated country, left unchecked it will catch up to us and the rest of the free world in no time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Well said.
Holy Shit, you are more of a moron that that gyp idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Where the fuck do you guys get your info? Do you listen to Rush all day and are glued to Fox all night? So far I've heard that somebody has met Ted Kennedy and counted his drinks one night. That from the same idiot who thinks Abu Garib is a tear-er-ists academy. ("now wake brother Saddam up in the back of the cell. I know he had half his teeth extracted a half hour ago by crazy ass hillbilly american soldier, but we are about to start the lesson #3 on how to properly place a roadside bomb."). And now some other asshole claims to know the future plans of prisoners that even the Red Cross finds it very difficult to talk to every now and then.
Obviously you are just a couple of cowards. Sign your asses up and go over there to fight this idiotic "war", and get the fuck out of here. But, of course, you don't have the balls. Like that fat drug addict in Florida who loves to spew hate into his microphone, and has never seen a good fight in his life. Assholes.
If you cannot see that we have some real threats in this world that need facing, then you are the idiot. The fact that you cannot debate the solution to those threats without insults proves you are an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
If you are going to post pictures like this, and you are going to debate the treatment of POW`s, then why dont you post the pictures of our POW`s????????? Would'nt that be fair? I wont post them, because there are none. They we all butchered when caputered. I can PM you some photos of what our soldiers looked like after being butchered if you like? Just let me know if you have the stomach for it.
Just think, people swim accross shark infested waters, from Cuba to get here, and you post your hate of this country. How fckn sad are you.
How old are you? Why haven't you volunteered to fight?
Post em if you got em then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
I'm sure everyone reading this thread has the "stomach" for them.
Besides, its interesting, I do google searches for "us soldier beheaded" "iraq pow casualties" and various mixes of those, yet I can only find two instances of 'coalition' soldiers being taken prisoner and beheaded.
Why's that?
Is there some mass conspiracy I'm missing here of US soldiers being taken hostage?
The core fact remains this:
Bush has been quoted over and over again saying "we don't torture prisoners" yet Abu Grahib photos and plenty of reports from Gitmo keep coming back that prisoners are infact being tortured. Its bullshit and it shouldn't be happening.