When an old friend becomes mayor of Crazytown

An old friend that I haven't seen in years was visiting last weekend. Now, he's always been a bit of a fuckup. One time when he was visiting CB he drove a patroller's snowmobile off a cat track into steep trees and trashed the bumper and the hood. At his home hill he started a flood in the tower of a base lodge ( I think it was weed and sprinkler system related). He couldn't come to my wedding since it would mean leaving his state due to a dui. Those are just off the top of my head.

Anyway, I hadn't seen or even heard from him in years when he called up and said he was on a road trip and wanted to visit. Come on up, I said. Well, it took forever for him to make what could be a one day drive from AZ- he kept going the wrong way, and didn't hit the road early, etc. He finally makes it and that's when the crazy stories really ramp up.

Most of the stories went in circles that didn't make any sense. His Hertz rental car, for instance, was actually owned by the State Department. They needed it back but he was going to buy it, and of course it wasn't really street legal due to all the modifications State made to it. Looked like a normal 4runner to me. Also he could drive it across the Mexico border anywhere he wanted since the State department always had an eye on it and would take out the Mexican army if they tried to mess with their property.

Then there were all his friends, supposedly all ex special forces of some sort. and their fights, and near fights. And apparently his town is filled with federal marshals, and secret service, and on and on. We went to the Secret Stash and he got agitated right away, mumbling something about someone pointing at him and saying "special forces". He wasn't in the special forces, I've known him since we were both 20. Then the 3 guys in the booth behind us were discovered by the secret service (or maybe federal marshals, it wasn't super clear). Those 3 killed or talked to the wrong people, according to him. The next morning, at the gas station, he somehow finds out that the 3 guys "got 50 years, but they'll be rehabilitated in 13 days". OK, I think, those 3 normal looking guys in their 20's eating pizza and drinking beer definitely had that all happen to them in the past 24 hours.

Speaking of the gas station, my buddy can't pay and leaves his ski pass for collateral. At this point, I think he's gone, but he can't pay for the gas and can't use his iphone because he doesn't have a charger. He also has an android that is charged, but he can't figure out how to get wifi at the library or a coffee shop to make a wifi call to his bank. So he goes to a local real estate agency (knowing that's what I do), and makes the poor agent/coworker/friend call me so I can go into town and help him. The story drags on a bit but the short version is that I end up paying for his gas so he can get out of here before I completely lose my mind, too.

He left a rambling message the next day at 1am, praising me for "keeping my cool and keeping an eye on those guys at the pizza place"

Hopefully he's ok. I don't really know any of his friends, or how to get in touch with his ex wife or daughter, although I'm sure they're all too aware that his brain is going some weird places. I'm not sure what, if anything, I could have done or done differently, but it was super stressful. I won't be surprised if a couple of you know exactly who I'm talking about, pm me if you do.

I've seen that sort of thing a few times. In my experience it's always been brought on by illegal stimulants. Seems to always end up in some fucked up shit involving cops or worse. Not sure if you have kids. If so, you should never let him be around. These things don't get better fast, if ever.

Sounds like a delusional disorder. The catch 22 of this is that these poor people, as a result of their disorder, don’t have the insight to recognize that they need help.

Attempts to convince them of that is often met with suspicion and resistance. If they get to the point they’re at risk of harming themselves or others treatment can be given without their consent - but then they improve to the point they are no longer an acute threat to themselves or others and they regain the legal right to make their own healthcare decisions and they often then abandon the treatment - only for the cycle to restart.

The ones that are delusional but not to the extreme don’t cross the threshold where they are so bad that treatment is given against their will and so they float around on the fringes of society rambling about conspiracies - often focused on secretive government agencies, aliens, or with a religious bent.

Did you then go for a drive w/him in that “special” Hertz rental?

https://youtu.be/HwgoZ4d_FtU?si=fxFxtZQ57zvNRBZz

you may need to go into witness protection

I am sorry about your old friend -

I had a recently experience with someone who lives nearby who is clearly not mentally well, screaming at me that an offer of help represented, 'his brother's "hatred" of him an his friends. '

I believe there would be value in alerting an adult daughter that there had been 'contact that seemed 'unusual" .
as you state, they are likely aware, but I would want to know if a close friend ( or relative ) is behaving unusually.

+++vibes+++ for your friend -
as a dear friend said to me last year, 'mental health is a thing. '

( b-mac's post also has relevant information. )

peace, skiJ

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Originally Posted by goldenboy

An old friend that I haven't seen in years was visiting last weekend. Now, he's always been a bit of a fuckup. One time when he was visiting CB he drove a patroller's snowmobile off a cat track into steep trees and trashed the bumper and the hood. At his home hill he started a flood in the tower of a base lodge ( I think it was weed and sprinkler system related). He couldn't come to my wedding since it would mean leaving his state due to a dui. Those are just off the top of my head.

Anyway, I hadn't seen or even heard from him in years when he called up and said he was on a road trip and wanted to visit. Come on up, I said. Well, it took forever for him to make what could be a one day drive from AZ- he kept going the wrong way, and didn't hit the road early, etc. He finally makes it and that's when the crazy stories really ramp up.

Most of the stories went in circles that didn't make any sense. His Hertz rental car, for instance, was actually owned by the State Department. They needed it back but he was going to buy it, and of course it wasn't really street legal due to all the modifications State made to it. Looked like a normal 4runner to me. Also he could drive it across the Mexico border anywhere he wanted since the State department always had an eye on it and would take out the Mexican army if they tried to mess with their property.

Then there were all his friends, supposedly all ex special forces of some sort. and their fights, and near fights. And apparently his town is filled with federal marshals, and secret service, and on and on. We went to the Secret Stash and he got agitated right away, mumbling something about someone pointing at him and saying "special forces". He wasn't in the special forces, I've known him since we were both 20. Then the 3 guys in the booth behind us were discovered by the secret service (or maybe federal marshals, it wasn't super clear). Those 3 killed or talked to the wrong people, according to him. The next morning, at the gas station, he somehow finds out that the 3 guys "got 50 years, but they'll be rehabilitated in 13 days". OK, I think, those 3 normal looking guys in their 20's eating pizza and drinking beer definitely had that all happen to them in the past 24 hours.

Speaking of the gas station, my buddy can't pay and leaves his ski pass for collateral. At this point, I think he's gone, but he can't pay for the gas and can't use his iphone because he doesn't have a charger. He also has an android that is charged, but he can't figure out how to get wifi at the library or a coffee shop to make a wifi call to his bank. So he goes to a local real estate agency (knowing that's what I do), and makes the poor agent/coworker/friend call me so I can go into town and help him. The story drags on a bit but the short version is that I end up paying for his gas so he can get out of here before I completely lose my mind, too.

He left a rambling message the next day at 1am, praising me for "keeping my cool and keeping an eye on those guys at the pizza place"

Hopefully he's ok. I don't really know any of his friends, or how to get in touch with his ex wife or daughter, although I'm sure they're all too aware that his brain is going some weird places. I'm not sure what, if anything, I could have done or done differently, but it was super stressful. I won't be surprised if a couple of you know exactly who I'm talking about, pm me if you do.

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Is this Dean Cummings you’re talking about? Sounds like the stuff Dean was uttering in those crazy videos babbling about conspiracies against him, before he killed that guy in NM.

My FIL became like that. Saw “spies” and “agents” everywhere he went. All kinds of conspiracies afoot. All kinds of really bad decisions we had to bail him out of. We eventually got him into a home where they made him take his meds, and he improved a lot - not enough for independent living but he wasn’t babbling weird shit 24/7.

Is he headed home? Do you know his address? If yes, consider contacting his home county mental health services organization and let them know your observations. He may be already known to them.

Good luck - diseases of the mind are horrible.

Re-reading my post it comes across with a tone of “these situations are hopeless” message. I want be clear that some people like your friend can be helped but often it takes them getting to that rock bottom where treatment is first given against their will - at that point tests can be done to see if this behavior is caused by something curable (like a brain tumor for example) - or even if not something curable sometimes these people, when treatments improve their mental clarity, gain insight and agree they need ongoing treatment to stay based in reality.

This sort of thing takes a lot of resources and time and energy and it’s usually close family members or very close friends that will take up that mantle. Set backs are to be expected and that can be exhausting for all involved so being aware of that in advance is imperative.

Edit: see post above - there can be success stories

The up side is guys like this ^^ make the rest of us look more sane

My uncle was schizophrenic. This sounds a lot like him when he was off his meds.
Luckily for him(us) he was diagnosed in the Air Force, so the government paid to care for him, otherwise it would have probably bankrupted my grandparents. Either that, or he would have been the homeless guy on the corner. Scary disease. Really scary.

Fucking around with certain drugs too much can kick this out of deep remission too.

Had a friend go a very, very similar route. Turned out he was severely bipolar and was also on a ton of white drugs. Not a great combination.


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Had a similar situation with an old friend.

As best I could tell it was cannabis induced schizophrenia.

Getting into the weeds here a bit - under the spectrum of “schizophrenia disorders” you’ll find schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, schizophreniform disorder, and delusional disorder. Outside of a psychiatrist’s office one could just label them all schizophrenia. They have many similarities.

Often the biggest difference between schizophrenia and delusional disorder is the prominence of hallucinations - if a person is seeing things or hearing things that aren’t real that’s more likely to be viewed as schizophrenia. Or if their behavior and thought process is really disorganized (they have three pairs of eyeglasses on their head and they’re talking in sentence fragments that having nothing to do with each other) that’s schizophrenia.

Psychiatrists typically diagnose schizophrenia in males in early adulthood and females ages 25–45, while people with delusional disorder often develop the condition later in life.

People intoxicated by drugs or in a manic phase of bipolar can temporarily mimic the above conditions. Given enough of the right drugs we’d all get this disorganized in our thoughts.

The combo of drugs AND a brain wired for one of these schizophrenic conditions is a recipe for disaster.

But you don’t need a drug habit to be this way - a significant number of people have schizophrenia without a drug problem.

I used to paddle with " crazy bob " a fun name we made up for buddy, an awesume paddler, he had many mannerisms, he ate a lot of Bananas the perfect food man, he would giggle all night on a camp-out and so i asked why ... it helps with the voices man

eventualy he lost his shit and ended up on the 3rd floor of PGRH where they lock you in and out of the elevator , he called the lawyer of the paddle buds who told me " Bob is on the 3rd floor and BTW we can't call him crazy Bob anymore "

Unfortunately his marriage to a nice out door gal did not make it

he wanted all his paddling buds to visit him so we did which I think made some of the bro's nervous even the more sane ones, when I visited he was churning out poetry and stories at high speed , he was panting hard just sitting there talking to me

fortunately they let us out

bipolar manic phase happened to friend of mine seems to have recovered, possibly worse due to coke

Thanks everyone-

Plugboots, great video, ha. I did not get in the special 4runner. Every square inch is filled with junk like a hoarder house so there is no room for a passenger.

Bennymac- it didn't sound hopeless at all, just reality. He's functional and has some money, so he isn't likely to end up being forced into any treatment. My buddy is 51, so I don't think he fits the timeline for schizophrenia onset but ??

I think a lot of you were onto things with substances. I've never known him to do any of the hard stuff, but he's smoked a lot of weed for a really long time. There's the weed that helps him wake up, the weed that helps him sleep at night, and the weed the rest of the day. I've never been a smoker, and always looked at it as less harmful than alcohol, but prolonged use, especially with the high THC stuff available today- yeah, Kevo might have nailed it. To his credit he mentioned AA a couple of times and while I think he sneaks a drink here and there, it seemed like that was under control.

That's not weed or booze, that's a serious mental disorder and or/meth. Sorry.

Here's my nickels worth of thoughts since I deal with this shit regularly.

Rock Bottom, nice phrase nice idea, rock bottom doesn't exist for most people. They will never find the bottom.

You cannot help this person. You can't help anyone with drug, alcohol, or mental health issues. They need to want to help themselves. Most don't care to sober up or deal with their mental health issues.

Block your friend on your phone if you don't want him around. It's ok to have a boundary it's ok to tell him he can't be around you. Don't be afraid to call the police. He probably has a lengthily rap sheet for stupid ass stuff, once the police see that they will know how to deal with him.

We do not involuntary medicate and warehouse mental health patients anymore. That's been done away with and the results are to be seen everywhere. The new system is a revolving door of warehousing people in the prison system where they get the bare minimum of the help they need. They are then released to repeat this over and over until something really bad happens and then they are put away for years.

I have a friend that I grew up with. All American college athlete, on the fast track doing commercial real estate and development in the New York City area. Wife, two kids, it was all perfect. He quit drinking about ten or so years ago, he was fun to party with up until then, his wife left him, his kids disowned him. Today he posts on facebook constantly, lives out of his car somewhere in California, changes his name regularly, rants and raves about saving the rhinoceroses in Africa, and how people are out to get him. He picks fights with family members over imaginary slights that may or may not have happened to him while growing up. On Facebook two years ago he mentioned needing a place to stay so a friend let him into his house, he couldn't get him out of there quick enough.

The other two I know I'd rather not talk about. It's so sad.

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Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

That's not weed or booze, that's a serious mental disorder and or/meth. Sorry.

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This.

I think a short dive into weed induced psychosis will not define him, and it's ambiguous as hell and most studies have severe issues/ handicaps.

Can it be a multiplier, fosho, and likely.

Is it his root problem?
I'd argue doubtful.

just one opinion, but with some real world experience.

“You cannot help this person. You can't help anyone with drug, alcohol, or mental health issues. They need to want to help themselves. Most don't care to sober up or deal with their mental health issues.”

I disagree with all of the above. I’m not saying it’s simple or ever straightforward. But these people can be helped.

And Fred you could be the most motivated person in the world - but if you develop schizophrenia you are not going to be in a headspace where you want or care to deal with your mental health issue.

This is not a problem of low motivation and poor coping skills. These people aren’t lazy - they’re crazy. Big difference. It belittles their struggle to frame it as an issue of “they just have to want it”

There are a whole bunch of people in society who could stop taking too many rec drugs/ to many drinks no shortage of them

but I've known a few people out there who are just have psych probelms, My buddy the paddler who went off the deep end wasn't a huge drinker or into drugs, is very smart , has a business lots of money, takes many great Vaca's takes many great photo's but he ends up on the pysch ward and i think that was his the 2nd big crash

so he was palming his meds, another paddle bud/ MD pointed out to Bob he was more likley to get out and sooner if took them but meds knocks the peaks off the highs of being crazy so not wanting to stay on the meds is a problem

I had a buddy like this. We worked together, and he was the best craftsman I've ever seen, at least most of the time. We lived together for a bit, and he was an awesome roommate, at least most of the time. We skied together for years. We kayaked together for years. If shit went wrong, I would have been stoked to have him there, at least most of the time.

Sometimes, though, he got strange. Eventually, he got weird full-time and alienated all of his friends. I kind of got scared of him, and I am pretty sure most of his other friends did too.

He eventually shot himself in the woods, and a lot of us learned about it because our friends were waiting to tell us when we got off a wilderness river trip (Selway). That drive home sucked. I sometimes wonder if there was something I could have done, and I think lots of our mutual friends do too.

Just stopping by to say I'm sorry. It's a tough thing to deal with. I've seen it a couple of times; can't offer any advice other than try and have an honest conversation about it.

Dang! Reminds me of Fear and Loathing.

RIP Hunter. No advice from this old man. Dealt with crazy a few times and hope I never have to again.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

I had a buddy like this. We worked together, and he was the best craftsman I've ever seen, at least most of the time. We lived together for a bit, and he was an awesome roommate, at least most of the time. We skied together for years. We kayaked together for years. If shit went wrong, I would have been stoked to have him there, at least most of the time.

Sometimes, though, he got strange.

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my Dad was a bridge builder/ fabricator/ charge hand/ foreman as the situation dictated and he could do anything, many guys had worked for him over 30 yrs, he said the best ones who were really good with a torch or the 2 ft rod were alcoholics or slighty bent so you never knew if they were gona show up for work but when they did they were wizards and I've heard that about the best painters/ best mechanics/ best bodymen/ best craftsman

Pa was pretty good but not crazy, I think he was only slightly depressed from WWII

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

I had a buddy like this. We kayaked together for years. If shit went wrong, I would have been stoked to have him there, at least most of the time.

Sometimes, though, he got strange. Eventually, he got weird full-time and alienated all of his friends. I kind of got scared of him, and I am pretty sure most of his other friends did too.

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I had a paddler friend exactly like this, and at least two other mags here were friends with him. Struggled for many years. Had a masters degree in Forestry but last I heard he was working at McDonalds living in his car. Hadn't heard from him in years, but randomly got 2 emails from him yesterday with just a subject line "Fuck you you fucking pussy". There were 5 other random people in the 'To' field that he sent it to, looks like he went through his saved email addresses. Just saw this thread today, pretty weird.

anything in the body of the email?

With all of the email hacks recently it could be a bot checking for active addresses. Just opening it shows them it's available to spam

Man, that's a gutting situation you're in.

As others have said, try to alert the family, but also realize that there isn't a whole lot you can do for him beyond that. Also, just because you are now involved doesn't mean you are responsible for how this ultimately turns out. Your old friend's condition is out of your control. Remember that.

I had a really close friend show up at my house a number a years ago, fully manic and not making a whole lot of sense about anything.

A few of us did whatever we could to keep him out of trouble for a few weeks, but that was easier said than done. In MT, they do still involuntarily lock people in mental health "hospitals" when police deem are a threat to themselves or somebody else, and that's what happened.

Turns out it was a combo of manic depression and bipolar disorder, ran in his family, as did suicide. He always told him his dad died by choking on a hot dog at a Red Sox game. Fucker.

Many of us blamed ourselves for a long time. Some still do, but the wheels driving his disorders weren't going to stop no matter what we did or who we called. I still don't know how we could've done it any differently or better. Probably never will.

Best of luck to you, what a fucking pickle.

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Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1

anything in the body of the email?

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No

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Originally Posted by gravitylover

With all of the email hacks recently it could be a bot checking for active addresses. Just opening it shows them it's available to spam

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Good point, entirely possible. The subject line was completely on-brand from what I would expect from the sender, so if it was - shame on me.

Yeah I know that story. Agreed the subject line was on-brand. Still shocks me to think about.