Yo TGR chaps,
How is it possible you dont have any intel on this exiting new product from DPS? :confused:
:biggrin:
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Yo TGR chaps,
How is it possible you dont have any intel on this exiting new product from DPS? :confused:
:biggrin:
Halloween-themed lube seems like a strange brand extension, but what do I know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghini
Who says we don't?
Quality wax is already overpriced enough as it is to consider adding DPS special sauce.
Got the pre-kickstarter e-mail. It’s a premium priced lifetime universal “wax”. Could be worth considering if the glide is as claimed, and depending on how regularly it requires stone-grinding to rejuvenate the surface.
All the marketing material is out and I’ll post a pdf and more when I get to my office. It’s a “1” time wax...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...token=5e40cea0
This is their Kickstarter page.
Also, it’s discussed on the blister podcast that came out this am.
Read the PDF but have not listened to the Blister podcast.
First impression is... meh. Lots of marketing speak and little real information.
Any material scientists or chemical engineers in the house?
Sounds like the product chemically alters the base material... permanently hardening it and closing the pores that would normally entrap traditional wax.
Not inspired by the mention of "just a base grind every 30 days" to refresh the glide... uh, no.
Slower than fresh wax, but by how much?
I see what you did there.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
Is this the "Juice" product, or an extension/modification of that, that DPS used on some of their skis last year?
https://looknowax.com - edit - looks like the permanent juice product is no longer available, but old page with details out there.
https://i.imgur.com/N4uqh6o.png
If so - I am sure a number of people in the forums have skied on it or something similar already.
Lost me with the 30-day base grind program. (Makes wanking motion)
Not seeing this on the Kickstarter - they say:Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
"Phantom’s sophisticated, timed polymerization process permanently penetrates the entire thickness of the base material with powerful go-fast fluoro compositions designed to operate across all snow temperatures. When the ski or snowboard goes into a shop for stone grinding, the next fresh layer of Phantom is exposed – ready to glide. "
And:
"Does Phantom change the appearance of the skis?
Your skis or snowboard will retain a glossy black appearance after a Phantom application. After thirty days or so of use, any base material will begin to look “dry” as snow abrasion starts take its toll. At this point, a stone grind will freshen the appearance to new."
So they say that a grind is needed to refresh the "appearance" but don't specifically say whether it's needed to refresh the glide. Does the PDF say differently?
Agree with the others - fuck doing a base grind every 30 days.
Scotchbrite.....?
Smells of pure bullshit.
Every 30 days with a particular pair doesn't bother me. I probably do that already.
Descriptions seem pretty different. Looks like Juice is an apply-and-go overlay; Phantom needs to penetrate overnight. (insert your-mom joke)Quote:
Originally Posted by iggyskier
You're right, it doesn't specifically say it's needed to refresh the glide, though that is kind of inferred. My bad, but still...Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Here is the Kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...token=5e40cea0
So Juice used to sell 2 products. Juice Pocket (which they still sell) and Juice Permanent (seems pulled - my guess would be now sold). Website is still up with a quick google search though so you can read about it. I know as we looked into it a bit last summer, but ended up not ordering any.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad
https://i.imgur.com/5rLUaMl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JiX0Bnk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VwYLGJg.jpg
Interesting. Definitely could be related.
Does it work in extreme cold & warm, when you need wax the most? And if not, does it allow application of cold or warm wax on top?
If you follow the links, there is a bunch of information coming out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele 'til You're Smelly
This graph represents the difference between conventional waxing and phantom.
Attachment 214976
Makes me think of melt skis (https://melt-ski.com) - any experience concerning the no wax base on them?
I spend maybe $15/year on wax, about 500g of Toko universal covers the quiver.
Apply wax at the end of the season for storage, scrape in the fall, and re-apply when things start to feel sticky.
2.5kg, incl shipping, for the price of one shot of PHANTOM.
And I get to hang around the garage fondling skis, listening to tunes and drinking beer.
I'm also skeptical of the watershed effects of hydrocarbon wax. I used to know some people at the SLC Water Quality office. I don't remember them ever mentioning that ski wax was a contributer to watershed pollution. They were much more concerned with solid waste, soot and fuel from transit/automobile traffic in the canyon. I suspect the environmental angle is pure marketing.
Exactly what information can you distill from that graph? Is the time scale in minutes/hours/days/years/runs/seasons? Where are the adjustments for frequency of base grinds? It's just an illustration to support their copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by grskier
DPS is nothing if not consistent in their color palette.
Looks like the colder the snow, the worse it performs in comparison to wax. I like how their cold snow graph compares it to universal wax? What about those sub-zero days when the last thing you want on your bases is a universal wax.
Requires a periodic base grind? and slower than wax? No thanks.
Really, as someone who used to wax his skis ad nauseum, then just stops, this is a great product. If you are someone that waxes all the time, and enjoys your time in the garage/wax room, well....
That said, I used to wax all the time because after 3-5 runs, I felt the difference and knew I wasn't really skiing on wax after a few runs.... Now I have kids and don't have the same bench space.
So, it's a pretty broad niche IMHO.. but if it's not your cup o' tea....
How often are you waxing? Seriously interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
I got an email back re: the base grind question already and Phantom should last beyond a base grind.
I wonder if this is like the ceramic coating that the vehicle detail industry has been using?
You apply this coating instead of a carnauba wax and it lasts for many years....maybe 5-10 depending on sun, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lg7BNFAOYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoCh5c74O1Y
How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?
Stinks.
Yes, they claim that it hardens the whole thickness of the base material... or at least to a depth that would tolerate a few grinds.Quote:
Originally Posted by grskier
It's not a surface finish, but an alteration to the base.
If the base gets hairy and slow with time, I suppose you could still wax over it with some regularity to avoid the base grind... but then what's the point? Longer intervals between wax jobs, maybe? Would the wax bond as well as to an untreated base?
The way I read it was that the treatment penetrated the base such that an occasional base grind to either re-flatten the ski, remove abrasion ie base hairs, or a grind after base repairs would not require an additional treatment. Doubt there are that many out there that re-grind skis for spring anymore, but that'd also be a possibility. If you don't base grind skis ever, then waxing is probably less important in terms of getting good glide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
Word!Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
That's my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
If the charts are true, why aren't the nordic guys who are most picky about waxing using this stuff in warm temps if it performs better than normal wax?
Do skins stick to it? HF and LF wax don't.
Because it's easier to make a chart with theoretical performance, than it is to make a chart with real world environmental data.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiitsbetter
Typical DPS skier- highest ratio of money spent to actual skill of anyone on the mountainQuote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit