Printable View
looking for a bike that can be run SS or geared, that I dont have to worry about cracking, failing, and will give all day comfort. Thinking that this might be the best of everything for 4.25p frame, 30mm "travel" and big wheels.
MOOTO X YBB
http://moots.com/our-bike/mtb-29/mooto-x-ybb/overview/
any other options that have soft tail, Ti, and 29er?
i used to own a ybb, and it rode like it had a flat tire. maybe they have improved the shock, but the one i had had no dampening. jsut a bumper.
waas not wild about it personally.
just finding my voodoo aizan
http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_aizan.htm
too hard on my back for long rides, Combo of Stiff frame, and no travel. I love the SS or geared options, and have a rocky altitude 29er as a "real bike" but do you think that a Ti, softtail might be an answer?
my YBB experience was similar to marshal's. 'flat tire' feeling was exactly the phrase i used at the time. however since then i've heard from several people that there are some soft-tails that feel better than the YBB.
e.g. the castellano.
my own opinion is that a good quality Ti 29er hardtail that runs around a 17 inch CS and has plenty of clearance for a 2.3 or 2.4 rear tire is a better way to go.
perhaps that new Salsa 3 inch travel 29er frame? i haven't ridden one, but i gather that it's targeted at the endurance XCer looking for a lightish, short-travel, efficient-feeling frame. pretty cheap too.Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
no rear pivot -- relies on flexing of the stays.
How about this? My buddy rides one and digs it.
http://www.sirenbicycles.com/song29.html
http://www.sirenbicycles.com/photos/jerrysong29.jpg
so, if its getting 3" of rear travel, no pivot, flexing the stay, the stay has to be getting effectivly shorter? correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
why not get something like a niner jet 9 and slap a paul melvin on there to run it singlespeed.
sure you will make emo kids in ill-fitting jean shorts sad, but... well... that is a good thing, no?
i believe it still has a pivot at the BB/CS junction. so it's not a candidate for a 'pure' singlespeed setup...would need a singulator of some sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
just doesn't have a pivot at the CS/seat stay junction, much like the longer travel salsa frames.
i've heard good things about the siren. haven't ever seen one in person despite riding socal trails a lot a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by HobieTony
back to moots...the slider version i.e. the Uno YBB would make a clean looking singlespeed.
there was a time when the ''lose the pivots, lose the maintenance"" argument of a softtail sorta made more sense to me. but with turner and santa cruz and intense (and hell, even Kona) with zerk fitting pivots, my thinking has changed. the SC Nomad pivots have been absurdly low maintenance and trouble free for me & my riding crew.
Still though, I can see how your desire to run a clean single speed w/o singulator might sway you here.
Salsa Dos Niner? 3" of fork travel; 1" boinger in the rear. Same as the YBB, I think? There's no pivot, just the boinger and a lot of flex around the chainstay/bb junction. So I guess it would essentially be getting shorter, but not by much.Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
I was looking at the Song and the Dos Niner while trying to convince myself to update my Monocog 29er this summer, but didn't feel that one inch of travel was going to revolutionize my ride. Wagon wheels already smooth out trail chatter so well, i just run what i brung instead.
I ride a Curtlo 29er softail (steel) and it doesn't ride like it has a flat tire.It weighs a lot more than 4.25#, though.
Basically it feels like a hardtail, except you get flats less often and your butt doesn't hurt as much.
I don't like the YBB "damper" because you can't adjust effective spring rate...all you can do is overdamp it to make it not bottom out. I think that's what gives it the "flat tire" feeling.
thanks guys, keep the ideas coming.
I guess my "problem" is that the voodoo is abusive to ride for 2+ hours on my lower back (4 * broken TP's, herniated discs, from 4 years ago, and 1 * surgery for the herniation 2 years ago) I love the SS, and have used it as a 1 * 9. It is already light (18-19 rigid, and 21-22 with fork) but I just need the smaller vibrations gone.
what frame material?Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_aizan.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA
Scandium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
ever try a 'plush" steelie? never ridden that bike but I have own a Scandium cross bike and well better than straight AL wasnt as good as a steel cross bike for ride compliance.
Vassago comes to mind but some do not like the geo. Maybe the Niner SIR?
ThudBuster!!!!:fm:Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
:D
So I was after the same thing.....
I had a YBB Litespeed ovalized, oversized downtube pinched & twisted for torsional strenght. It still creaked, moned and felt like it had a flat tire. Besides the 26" inch wheels were too slow. last week I gambled on a Salsa "Dos Niner" Scandium on ebay. People seem to love this bike from the 5 years of reviews
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
cheap enough that if I don't like the frame I can make a go of it with the hardware on another 29er'
Lenz Milk Money?
http://www.lenzsport.com/detail.php?prodID=4
Look sweet. No idea how they ride since I don't have the money, but good reputation...
that might work too. (very cool idea/design)
I guess I need to see what frame material will soak up the small, micro vibrations the best. Carbon, Ti, etc.
Milty... remember we are talking about MTB here I belive the "road weenie" "micro vibrations" your talking about are best discussed in "TechTalkJong".Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
Titanium is the unmatched best, but it creaks and flex's and feels limp. Carbon breaks when sratched deep enough, Aluminum makes my hands fall asleep......I have convinced myself to shut up and ride "don't sweat the stupid stuff" seriously, all bikes hurt by nature. On Mountain Bike, I have found the eratic up and down with uneven pedal stroke is not the best venue for the properties of Titanium. Small road vibration gets washed out by the ruts, rocks and roots @ speed. I prefer a little more response which is why I don't like Fulll Suspension for XC. The soft tail 29er we are wishing for may not exist yet, all bikes hurt some just make you feel better = "esteem" riding them.
I'm trying Scandium this time, but I bet it hurts like all the rest.
GET WHAT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD!
SteelQuote:
Originally Posted by yonskion
is
Real
its no lie really once you get past the weight and in the case of highend frames its not much more at all.
Steel feels good, but is very brittle and not worthy of the high end builders price tagQuote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA
I have broken 5 quality frames over the years....
1. Bridgestone MB-1 (Prestige tubing) cracked head tube and multipul stress fractures @ top tube weld with head tube.
2. Mountain Goat Cycles "Wiskey Town Racer" (Prestige tubing) cracked seat tube
3. Mountain Goat Cycles 1st bike replacment and head tube cracked
4. Colnago (SLX Columbus tubing) BB cracked could have been because of the clover leaf cut out on bottom bracket
5. Bianchi (SL Columbus tubing) BB cracked
Steel is real expensive if you want a custom hand built frame and will break anytime it feels like it......
It's hard to tell a steel lover that there are better materials
I have yet to break one, but then again I buy pretty heavy bikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by yonskion
My $200 On-One Inbred frame rides smoothly, can take derailleur or run SS, and the low cost on the frame means you can get a super-trick fork and other parts and still total up less than one bare Moots frame.
I've owned Ti and steel and I don't feel a difference in the ride. I do remember more sway and flex at the BB cluster on the Ti frame, and I know that's the most consistent weakness of all Ti frames, especially 29ers and big-sized 26ers. I don't think I'll ever buy another Ti frame. I'd probably accept one as a gift though.:D
If you need Ti cush, just get a Moots post with layback. That's what I'm running on the Inbred. Enough flex to smooth out the ride.
**********
yonskion,
your post suggests that the quality of the tubing is what matters in steel frame failures. Most steel frame failures have to do with excessive heat during tube joining, or insufficient butt length. Most frames break at the tube junction or the end of a butt. Occasionally they'll break at the distant end of a gusset -- that's another heat-zone issue there.
Steel frame failures usually have to do with either builder error or rider abuse, not the Brand Name or Model of the tubing used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
That's like asking "What homeopathic medicine works the best?" Answer: none of them, it's all placebo effect.
Flexy layback seatposts and seats with flexy rails will make a difference, as will flexy handlebars. But frame material cannot possibly make a difference to your ass or to your hands.
1) No seatstay moves more than a thousandth of an inch or so under compression. That's the point of triangulation. Compare that the the movement of a pneumatic tire, a seatpost suspended at one end, seat rails, and seat padding.
2) Your handlebars aren't even attached to the frame...they're attached to the fork!
Of course, this will never convince anyone, just like "audiophiles" are convinced they can hear the difference between an 8ga and 15ga power cable even though the transformer windings (through which all current passes) are ~28ga.
Can you feel different frames flex at the BB as you stomp on the pedals, or at the headtube as you slam on the front brake? Absolutely. But the idea that one frame material will be more comfortable than another to ride is sheerest bushwa.
I think what you mean to say is YOU can't feel the difference. And that's a whole lot different thing than saying there is no difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
I know people who say they can't feel a difference between a foam core ski and a sandwich w/ metal ski. That doesn't mean the difference doesn't exist.
I know people who say they can't feel a difference between driving a modern VW GTI and an 80s Cadillac Seville. That doesn't mean the difference doesn't exist.
The real question is whether someone can tell Kokanee from PBR in a blindfolded taste test.
FIFUQuote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
2468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
Duh No Man! I can feel the diference between a Ti frame vs Aluminum and I ain't no "audiophiles"
I can definitely feel the difference in my lower back when riding an aluminum hardtail vs. steel or ti hardtail. I also noticed the difference when I had to ride a cheap, uber-rigid aluminum road bike on a trip -- that thing beat me up a lot more than my ti road bike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
A ti seatpost (on an aluminum bike) didn't make as much of a difference as I had hoped for, unfortunately. Titanium-railed saddles might help a tiny bit, but I think there's more flex in the saddle shell anyway.
I'm running a Ti railed saddle, on a carbon post already.
I'd love to see a blind test for the same frames shape/size, same parts, but with a Ti, Al, and Steel frames. see what the feedback is.
You know what you want.... Now just use your Jedi tricks too convince and justify with your Wife the outrageous expense. Ti YBB 29er is a must own @ least once in life. I say gopher it dude
You're too modest. That wasn't just fixed, it was improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAFTC
a BB shell pivot is one of those ancient supension ideas that was tried, and rejected, by the industry many years ago. if you're a fan of singlespeeds, like i am, your first reaction might be 'hey, cool design' but the whole point of singlespeeds is cranking 'em when you are standing tall, out of the saddle...and that's when the design sorta fails (unless u run a shitload of pro pedal damping). the milk money owners i've spoken with readily admit this, and think of the bike more as a quiver bike...something fun to take out occasionally but with some inherent drawbacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAFTC
YMMV of course.
^^No that makes total sense. I think I've just always thought that suspension designs that required the stays to flex were spooky (maybe I bent too many paper clips back and forth until they snapped when I was a kid) and that the shell pivot sort of dealt with that. Which it probably does...by adding in a new kind of weird. I'm happy w/my fully rigid for now, just like seeing leftfield-(retro)innovative designs.
Speaking of, RetroTec's are pretty.
A Ti 29 hardtail with longish extended Ti seatpost may do the trick. I was surprised at how much difference it apparently made on a long distance race, but my compare was a Ti 26 frame/Alu seatpost so the compare is polluted by wheelsize. Most likely you will get the extra seatpost extension as the seat tubes tend to be shorter on the 29. That extra extension adds noticable flex in the post. The Eriksen post is a work of art, very simple bombproof saddle attach too!
do you think that the "flat tire feel" of the YBB was just another way of describing a feeling that others might like?
in ski terms:
what is snappy, and responsive (positives) to one person is nervous and twitchy (negatives) to others?
or do some people like the YBB?
I might have a chance to demo this in the fall, and that should help answer a lot, but if not it is BIG money mistake to make. The voodoo zaka looks like a cheaper roll of the dice if I hate it, and it sure can't be any MORE stiff/harsh (responsive and you can feel the trail really well)