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K2 Apache Chief 181 or 188, 126/98/116
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic26232.jpg
Scott Santiago Mission 183 130/90/116
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic26233.jpg
Scott Santiago Pure 188 132/92/117
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic26234.jpg
Bro Model 188 125/99/114 (no pics)
Imagine you are 5'10'' and have the choice between these 4 stick, which would be your choice for powder, crud and bc in general and why (without considering price)?
Please discuss!
Definitely Bro's. Too much sidecut on both of the Scotts and the K2s are probably a lot softer than I like. Plus, I have a feeling the Bro's are going to be a lot more durable (P-tex 6000 bases, double-size edges, etc.).
edit: the graphics are waaaaaay better too!
http://tetongravity.com/forums/attac...&postid=190898
also, buying skis from friends is cooler than buying skis from k2. to my way of thinking.
Gotama v's Bro model?
Any thoughts.
I've got one: apples vs. oranges.
go
I'm not at all biased, but here's something to chew on.
Bro Models = bigger Rockwell edges. (Bros on the left, Head Monsters on the right). When she says size doesn't matter, she's not talking about your edges. Bigger is better:
http://www.pmgearusa.com/bigedges.jpg
Here's a full lineup with all of the Bro prototypes in the mix. The Bros in the middle are the closest to the production ski:
http://www.pmgearusa.com/quiver.jpg
Keep in mind these pics are of the proto's which have white/blank topsheets. Also, the finished bases will be black, not clear like with the protos.
Wow. I'll take that quiver with a few sets of freerides and some skins to go with 'em.Quote:
Originally posted by Twoplanker
Here's a full lineup with all of the Bro prototypes in the mix. The Bros in the middle are the closest to the production ski:
http://www.pmgearusa.com/quiver.jpg
the phase FKNA! comes to mind ;)
you want fries with that??Quote:
Originally posted by iskibc
Wow. I'll take that quiver with a few sets of freerides and some skins to go with 'em.
Thanks everybody who posted senseful stuff here.;)
TP, the collection above just makes me frickin' jealous.
Although the sidecut on those sticks is quite different as mentioned but then why are still many pros riding boards with a lot more sidecut than the Chiefs or Bro Model, is that just because these guys ski a lot better than anyone else or the sticks just turn better? And why are skis on the market with a 141 shovel and a 90-92 waiste?
Aside from that, 5'10'' = 176 cm. 188 cm perhaps too long except for perfect pow?
Discuss!
Seems fine to me, more length just means more float in things like windbuff and funky cruddish but kinda soft stuff, the only thing it'll suck in is bumps but who skis bumps seriously? I personally ski on 178s wich are too short IMO but thats the longest they make PEs, my skate skis are 195s and my classics are 210 though, and damn they are intersting in icy turny hilly situationsQuote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Aside from that, 5'10'' = 176 cm. 188 cm perhaps too long except for perfect pow?
Because pro's are paid to ski on a certain brand of ski, and different brands have different ideas of what kind of sidecut is best....Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Although the sidecut on those sticks is quite different as mentioned but then why are still many pros riding boards with a lot more sidecut than the Chiefs or Bro Model, is that just because these guys ski a lot better than anyone else or the sticks just turn better? And why are skis on the market with a 141 shovel and a 90-92 waiste?
Why are there skis on the market with reverse sidecut and reverse camber? Why are there "skis" on the market that are 100cms long and not kids skis? Why does ak_powder_maggot relate stories of his skinny-ass XC skis when he talks about downhill boards?!? Who knows...
Quote:
Originally posted by BakerBoy
Because pro's are paid to ski on a certain brand of ski, and different brands have different ideas of what kind of sidecut is best....
Why are there skis on the market with reverse sidecut and reverse camber? Why are there "skis" on the market that are 100cms long and not kids skis? Why does ak_powder_maggot relate stories of his skinny-ass XC skis when he talks about downhill boards?!? Who knows...
Thanks BB, good enough.
But let me ask you the real question then: What works better in your opinion for bc conditions overall (I'm talking about really shitty snow too, not only the perfect pow dream where pretty much every carpenter's board in any lenth works)?
Thanks
I can imagine that I am 5'10" because I am. I was fortunate enough to demo the Bro Model up at Hood last weekend. I'm buying that ski. I haven't tried the other skis you showed in order to compare them to the Bro Model. I do know that the Bro Model is a high performance ski that is versatile, unique, and a pleasure to ski on. I'd post a link to my review along with others if the forum database was working correctly. (I'll can add it in an edit when things are functioning correctly)Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Bro Model 188 125/99/114
Imagine you are 5'10'' and have the choice between these 4 stick, which would be your choice for powder, crud and bc in general and why (without considering price)?
Please discuss!
Vets,
How do they compare to a pair of 190 Explosives then (if that's possible for you) in pow and junk snow?
What is the sidecut on the Bros vs. the Apache Chief?
Yo Hicks and SkiBeav,
a) In my opinion, lots of sidecut doesn't always suck, but it really depends on what sort of conditions we're talkin'. For instance, if you're getting some fatties that you'll often be using on groomers, then sidecut ain't that bad. BUT, if you're getting fatties for steeps and variable conditions, then lots of sidecut means that the tips and tails can "hook up" and cause some trouble. That's why, in example, the "gordy stock XXX's" have reduced sidecut...and it works.
b) Gotamas vs. Bromodels really is apples to steaks. I'd imagine that the Bromodels are somewhat similiar to XXX's in that they're fat and stiff. This makes them ideal for crud, variable conditions, speed and steeps--and they prolly rail the groomers pretty well, too. The Gotamas are the ulitmate ski---only in powder. But the flex combined with their float and feel makes them more fun when the pow is uniform and consistent...they're like surfboards and because they're pretty soft, you really get to feel the powder as opposed to sheets of steel like the XXX's. So, no comparison, if you ask me. Two different animals.
As stated before I am talking about skiing groomers on the way back to the parking lot, else I got an ole' x-scream for shit and giggles. But I'm also talking often shitty b/c conditions we have here more often than we like to admit. And to conclude a Bro model with it's waiste being better in 2' upwards than any of the other sticks mentioned (except Gotamas maybe) and lenth doesn't matter in such conditions makes sense to me without further question, too. Before I throw a couple of 100 Bucks on the table I wanna be damned sure that I spend it right.:)Quote:
Originally posted by The Reverend Floater
Yo Hicks and SkiBeav,
In my opinion, lots of sidecut doesn't always suck, but it really depends on what sort of conditions we're talkin'.
But thanks anyway.
sorry hicks, it's all second hand but there's one guy in verb who used the mission lately and was very happy with them (Olivier at www.mountain-guide.ch)
Hope can be of help
said that......Quote:
Originally posted by verbier61
sorry hicks, it's all second hand but there's one guy in verb who used the mission lately and was very happy with them (Olivier at www.mountain-guide.ch)
Hope can be of help
C'mon, pick up a Bro until the euro is at 1.2something ;)
It can't be wrong :rolleyes:
Verb,
are you a nurse or what?;)
You think each time I wipe my ass the paper converts to Greenbacks.......:rolleyes:
But thanks for the reference, maybe will give this guide a call.....to make splat nervous!:D
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Verb,
You think each time I wipe my ass the paper converts to Greenbacks.......:rolleyes:
hehe it's always funny to talk here about Scott USA sticks that are actually UNAVAILABLE in USA...... :D
...and my grin is always freezin' like after a knee shot when they talk about all the Voelkls coming outta here and only being available over ...there....:(Quote:
Originally posted by verbier61
:rolleyes:
hehe it's always funny to talk here about Scott USA sticks that are actually UNAVAILABLE in USA...... :D
If it helps at all, the Apache Chief has a real nice flex to them. They aren't soft at all, very similar to explosiv only wider.
Only time will tell if they are just as durable.
Of course, if you buy the bros, you can be one of about 3 people on the continent who has a pair...
Josh,
so did you ski the Apache? Rumours I heard tell the same about the flex.
Not sure about the Bros yet, although I'd love to support a fellow maggot like splat for his courage.
I have yet to ski any Explosives. I hear that they are pretty stiff. I would imagine that the Bro Models would be easier to ski than a 190 Explosive. The Bro Models didn't really feel long to me at 188. Though it did take a couple of runs to get used to them. Once you find the sweet spot towards the tip they will do any shape turn easily.Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Vets,
How do they compare to a pair of 190 Explosives then (if that's possible for you) in pow and junk snow?
I also demoed the earlier stiffie Bro Model - a fun fast ride. The new Bro Model is much more versatile.
Hicks, How much do you weigh? I'm around 175, if that helps you.
I'll put this up here. It's from another thread here in TT, just to give you a better idea of what we were thinking when we put the BroModel together.................
Spats drilled me to extend the sidecut beyond the end of the effective edge, into the tip curvature, similar to the Beast's tip, but not as pliable. I like what it does.
Right from the start, we kinda thought we'd split the difference between the W105 and the LP. And it's almost exactly where we
ended up, in terms of dimensions.
We liked the Exploders rounded tail, but we're doing it with a one-seam edge all the way around the ski. Might adjust that to a pintail alloy tail insert, ala the 4X4 Big.
Oh, yeah, Buster suggested softening up a sweet spot in the tip of the stiffies, to hook up the sidecut....it worked.
The NKO's 6000 base.......
Now I know why Nobis called his the Inspired.
That's why this ski is Maggot Inspired
i haven't seen official numbers published, but my calcs yield:Quote:
Originally posted by Below Zero
What is the sidecut on the Bros vs. the Apache Chief?
188 Bro, 125-99-114, sidecut/radius about 10.3mm/34.4m
189 Chief, 126-98-116, sidecut/radius about 11.5mm/31.1m
NOTE: i made assumptions, so I could be off here, but looks OK to me.
.
.
and don't forget, flex influences how much you "feel" the sidecut. people say the Bro's soft tip helps turning, makes sense to me.
About the same. Mrs. keeps telling me I'm far too fat.:(Quote:
Originally posted by Vets
.
Hicks, How much do you weigh? I'm around 175, if that helps you.
What exaclty is this BroModel everyone is speaking about? I like its dimensions and same with the Apache.
Really? Try a search, if the other 10 threads about the skis aren't obvious enough.Quote:
Originally posted by descender
What exaclty is this BroModel everyone is speaking about? I like its dimensions and same with the Apache.
Sweet Euro Funiness
Mass produced disposible cap ski, Scotts most people have never heard off, or limited production skis from PM Gear?
Maybe you're the clown ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles
Sweet Euro Funiness
Mass produced disposible cap ski, Scotts most people have never heard off
Scott makes those in their Austrian Blizzard factory and is just selling them in Yurp. The older Santiagos was probably the mostly used equipment at a place like Verbier 1-2 years ago, does that tell you anything?
OK, got it. Sounds cool. I was all set on 192 Moships cause I really liked them, but now..... hmm.... dammit!Quote:
Originally posted by BakerBoy
Really? Try a search, if the other 10 threads about the skis aren't obvious enough.
:D :rolleyes: :DQuote:
Originally posted by Hicks
Maybe you're the clown ;)
Scott makes those in their Austrian Blizzard factory and is just selling them in Yurp. The older Santiagos was probably the mostly used equipment at a place like Verbier 1-2 years ago, does that tell you anything?
positively! it was before the 2004 B2 mania in verb rentals
BTW I missed it: Scott owns blizz... or vice-versa? most of all, why after all isn't scott shipping anything to the US, whereas some blizz are available there? :confused:
Sorry to hear that the Mrs. feels that way about you. I'm happy enough with what I can do with my body not to ask if I look fat in these pants. In fact, I try to keep my weight above 170 because I feel stronger.Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
About the same. Mrs. keeps telling me I'm far too fat.:(
You weigh enough to flex the BroModel. I wouldn't pass up the unique opportunity.