PARK CITY (and all) SKI PATROLLERS DESERVE MORE.

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Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
There is a nursing shortage. There isn't a patroller shortage.

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There is a qualified patroller shortage. I talked to a friend at another ski area today he and I patrolled at 3 different areas together. He and I forecasted together.

2 patrollers took real rides on their opening day. Neither of these had < 5 years experience.

As long as everything is going fine and you have 3-5 years worth of slides in the carousel you can get by. Its when things get strange that you need that 8-15 year institutional knowledge.

And sometimes even that isn't enough.

And in reality I don't care how much cool factor the job may have, you want someone good running a sled with a broken femur patient or running a control route with explosives that fucking simple.

These professionals are asking for a little more $$$ and they currently are starting to get paid what they pay some clown to work in Taco Bell here.

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It was a cool fucking job. I did it for the high fives and free booze, the adrenaline, the pow, and was never in it for the money. Patrollers are always lauded as heros, which is fun and feeds the ego and it is an important part of mountain operations, but I always laughed at that hero sentiment because I felt like I was just scamming the system to ski untracked pow at sunrise.

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You saw the end of an era and spent most of your career during its heyday. I started at Big Sky at $ 6.75 an hr but rent was < $ 200 a month.

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I am always amazed at what the BSSP does on a daily basis and do my best to thank them when I ski by.

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Same. And I can tell you, it IS appreciated.

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Originally Posted by RegCT

I did it for the high fives and free booze, the adrenaline, the pow, and was never in it for the money.

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Awesome that you are independently wealthy and didn't need to work for money. There are many people less fortunate than you that deserve a living wage to do the job the have chosen.



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Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

There is a qualified patroller shortage.

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We agree! As mr walker points out:

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Originally Posted by mr walker

What isn't properly teased out by the unions is how all of the above, over time, creates a valuable employee worth retaining.

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That's why you see me rolling my eyes over typical union shouting about starting pay, but absolutely raising my fist about underpayment of very qualified and experienced patrollers that have advanced training framed by years of experience. They make the important calls, have the institutional and experiential knowledge to guide their teams and see the problems before they happen, to manage a tenuous situation and get a good outcome, etc etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Rob Stokes

Awesome that you are independently wealthy and didn't need to work for money. There are many people less fortunate than you that deserve a living wage to do the job the have chosen.



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Your're kidding ? Right?

It is insane that most of the patrol at one of the wealthiest spots in the country has to walk out to try and get 23 bucks an hour.

Like bunion said dishwashers in bzn can make 30$.

Utah wages are garbage like Idaho and NM. Shit all the j1s here make 23 plus to stare at their phones and look as disinterested as possible.

Fuck Vail.

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Originally Posted by new yabyum

Your're kidding ? Right?

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Not really? The guy literally said he didn't do it for the money. I guess I am being a bit factitious saying that he must be wealthy though, sorry about that.

It grinds my gears when patrollers themselves (usually vollies with other well paying jobs) undermine the cause by saying "well I do it for free" etc etc. I guess it hit a nerve.

What Summit is saying is hitting the nail on the head about tenured 10+ year patrollers needing to see a substantial wage to compensate for their experience.

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https://www.realtor.com/news/unique-...la-ski-chalet/

VR to Park City patrol:

https://youtu.be/FuNJq_wI1ns?si=WAcwYqvsxS-eUIEU

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Originally Posted by m2711c

snowmakers could use a raise as well…
fact.

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Was watching snowmakers from the chair and said to person next to that I don’t know what they make, but it’s not enough. And that was during daylight hours

Holy fuck bunch cunts
So happy to see park city being fucked for the holidays
Skiing is a hobby not a real life thing

Fuck vail
Pro union here

All the cocks wh9 are constantly devaluing others jobs and accomplishments suck my cock

You are what is wrong

I post this sitting in first class half cocked 9n ipas it must suck to be you it's tough being a baller

Keystone be shutting it down come presidents day weekend can't wait

Pro union Pro ski patrol

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Originally Posted by fastfred

Holy fuck bunch cunts
So happy to see park city being fucked for the holidays
Skiing is a hobby not a real life thing

Fuck vail
Pro union here

All the cocks wh9 are constantly devaluing others jobs and accomplishments suck my cock

You are what is wrong

I post this sitting in first class half cocked 9n ipas it must suck to be you it's tough being a baller

Keystone be shutting it down come presidents day weekend can't wait

Pro union Pro ski patrol

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POTD

Brian Higgins: When I broke my leg and needed ski patrol, I was thinking about the shareholders

By forcing ski patrol to make a rescue using expensive man hours, would I eliminate the chance at a profitable day for the resort?


The biggest story in Utah’s outdoor world right now is the Park City Mountain Resort ski patrol strike. The patrollers struck on December 26, one of the busiest days of the season, and are committed to striking until their demands are met. They’re fighting for a number of concessions, but the sticking point for the resort’s parent company, Vail Resorts, seems to be on wages. The patrollers are asking for $23/hr starting pay, up $2/hr from their current starting point of $21/hr. Vail Resorts is apparently unwilling to meet those demands.
Seeing this in the news got me thinking about my own experience with ski patrol in February of 2020. It was a traumatic day that I don’t like to remember.
I’ve been an expert skier since high school, and although I was familiar with the bowl I was skiing that day, the snow was in an unforgiving mood. In between firm and slushy, it was hard to figure out and made for some awkward turns.

Against my better judgement I still chose to hop off a 3- or 4-foot rock. I landed, hit an unseen bump and was suddenly airborne. I flipped head over heels and, as my skis hit the snow, I felt immediate pain in my left leg. Worse, I heard a sickening crunch beneath me.

I would later find out that I had suffered a spiral fracture of my tibia and a clean break of my fibula. The ski patroller on duty said it was one of the worst below-the-knee injuries they’d seen that year. I wouldn’t be able to return to my outdoor hobbies for about four to six months and, to this day, I still have nagging ankle and calf problems from my fall. But I wasn’t thinking about any of that in the moment: I was thinking about the resort’s profit margins and controlling investors.

How would my accident affect the shareholders? By forcing ski patrol to make a rescue using expensive man hours, would I eliminate the chance at a profitable day for the resort? Why had I taken such a careless risk without considering the bottom line? How could I be so stupid?

What if a patroller had been clocking out just as my accident was called in? Would he now have to work another hour? How much would that cost the mountain? If it had been at PCMR, it would have cost $21. Imagine stupidly snapping two of your bones and costing your favorite resort 1/13th the cost of a lift ticket. Would they even be able to open the next day? I was distraught.

Two ski patrollers arrived on the scene quickly. I asked if they could get me down with just one patroller so the other one could clock out and save the resort some money, but they assured me it would take both. I mentally cursed myself again.
Inside the medical area, they told me they would take an X-ray to confirm the breaks. My guilt was mounting. How much electricity did it cost to fire up an X-ray machine? Too much, surely. I tried to balance out the cost by shutting off the lights, but was in too much pain to stand up. Could this day get any worse?

It sure could. Soon, they brought in a third health professional to get the boot off of my leg. Three people on the clock. Three hours of work. At Park City, that would mean $63 dollars. They’d have to sell two and a half cheeseburgers to make up for that.
Patrol soon got to work, and let me tell you: It hurt. If you’ve never felt the pain of three people pressing down on a ski boot exactly where you twisted your tibia into four or five pieces, it’s bad. But still not as bad as the pain of knowing you’ve cost some poor, helpless millionaire out there the chance at passive income.

After all, those investors had done so much for me. They’d invested in this great resort. What had ski patrol ever done besides respond to medical emergencies in dangerous alpine environments, mitigate hazardous avalanche terrain, and set up innumerable safety features around the mountain? Nothing, that’s what.

So let’s all take a moment to thank the people who keep mountains like Park City and Vail’s other resorts safe. And to be clear, I mean financially safe, the more important kind of safe.

If you’re wondering about me, I’m much better now. Surgery and physical therapy eased the pain over time, and I’m back in full form. But real relief only came when I learned the resort I was skiing at was part of a private ownership group.

Brian Higgins is a writer and comedian in Salt Lake City who really did break his leg skiing and wants to thank patrollers everywhere.

From the SLC Tribune...

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Originally Posted by tgapp

https://gofund.me/33c6e6ed

put your money where your mouth is and support these trollers and their families

arguing about this online ain't worth shit if they can't put food on the table

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THIS!!! I’m chipping $ in. Keep the trollers as whole as possible so they can keep the pressure on VR.

Diedra just popped on my insta with the most tone deaf response to the strike. Obviously not surprising but how do these people live with themselves. Since DD isn't here, someone has to say it...

FUCKING BOOTLICKERS!!

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First off, I'm pro-union and pro-PC Ski Patrol.

There are several Patrollers here but here's a bit about my seven years.

Ski Patrol's a great job and there is a certain "glamour" to it. We used to joke about another day being an Alpine Hero. The Pro teams at real mountains, where the stakes are high, and prolly the little ones too, are top notch. At the end of the day though, it's work, and people work to pay their damn bills. If you can't do that, the hill's gonna suffer as new talent washes out quickly and the old Pros retire. Mountain town living's different now, it's hard to make ends meet at double a Patroller's wage. You absolutely need the experience and expertise of the senior Patrollers to train the newbs and see the big picture of snow and resource management.

I was single-ish and had simple needs and was used to low pay anyway as ski bum. I made much more money in the summer which is why I lasted that long. Still though, the seasonal, no benefits, low pay thing gets old. Not to mention how hard it is on your body. I left in 2006 at $15ish/hour after seven years as a Pro. Might have made a bit more except I went part-time for the last couple years and stopped progressing my role and responsibilities. That was still some of the better pay in Colorado at the time. Some of the things I did were avi route leader and accident investigations among other stuff. Most of us were route leaders by about year three.

I got my EMT-B with a Wilderness module (WEMT-B) in one month in the off season on my own dime. It was more than double the price of a regular course, about $1800 in 1997(?), including a bunk and meals. The course was 180 hours including the 20 hour wilderness module. Really not a bad deal and it was super fun. Still a sizable investment for ski bum with no job guaranteed. Contrast that with the NSP's OEC (Outdoor Emergency Care), formerly WEC (Winter Emergency Care), that's basically a WFR equivalent at 80 hours. I'd done WEC years before just for myself, to be better prepared in the backcountry. I did the WEMT in the fall before the ski area opened but didn't get hired onto the Patrol for two or three more years. Both the Patrols I worked on were all EMT-B minimum with some higher levels. We all saw some shit as far as trauma and medical. The continuing ed to maintain our licenses was covered in our annual Patrol refresher training pre-season. We all had to test out of OEC every year too IIRC.

I had also done my Avi 2 in Silverton on my own dime a few years before I started Patrolling. That wasn't super relevant for my first Patrol job, we just didn't' have the terrain, it didn't hurt though. It was super relevant for my next job where I spent five years.

I've got a couple friends that are current or former Patrollers up there and I'll try to answer a couple other questions from upthread.

For one thing, they're not just asking for a higher starting wage, part of what they're asking for is also to address the wage compression at the middle and upper end of the pay scale that happened when they bumped entry level pay to $21/hr last year or the year before. Thing is, they bumped entry level pay for the whole resort to $19 or $20/hr at the same time so Pro Patrollers were starting at $1/hr more than dishwashers. Of course the dishwashers deserve to get paid well too but the skills and responsibility required of a Patroller are obviously exponentially more.

People were also asking about the summer work. They only run a maximum of around ten Patrollers/day for the summer bike operations, fewer on weekdays. Also it's only when the lift's open for bikes which is like a four month season. Year round work is only available for a select few career Patrollers in supervisory or management roles. Given all that, the health insurance thing will be tough. I could see signing people up and having them pay the premium in the off season, maybe. Still that'll be expensive if the corp doesn't keep paying their subsidies.

Someone upthread mentioned they should have gone on strike sooner before vail could muster up reinforcements. One of the reasons they didn't was because there wasn't enough snow to open enough terrain, and weren't enough skiers to need more than a skeleton crew. With the terrain they had available and the skier numbers, the mountain could pretty much be run by just the supervisors, who aren't allowed to be in the union. Now they have the snow but are struggling to open more terrain due to lack of staff. The crowds are here and they're noticing, and feeling like their vacations are ruined, and being vocal about it. I'm happy to see the union getting some leverage up there now, and seeing vail getting dragged on the socials.

Anyhow, I support the Patrol and their Union, and fuck vail.

Would be great if patrol at all the other vail resorts properties joined the union. I wonder if that is in the works behind the scenes.

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Some are muddying the waters comparing patrols. It’s like comparing a pool guard at the Y to an ocean Beach guard.

My dad’s buddy had a brain aneurysm up at La parva, there’s thousands of people, all kinds, on the hill, the golden hr is real.

Seems the fuckers all want their kids swimming in the ocean with minimum wage Y guards that can barely swim themselves.

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Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp

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Yeah but it’s an affordable $250 mid-month.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Would be great if patrol at all the other vail resorts properties joined the union. I wonder if that is in the works behind the scenes.

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In today's world, there is no behind the scenes (screens). This conversation is front and center in patrol locker rooms everywhere. Hence Vail acting as they are. This is a Proxy War. Ski Town Workers verse the Machine.

And using an overly simplified supply and demand labor model and comparing patrol wages to other stupid low wages as justification is pretty short sighted. Non living wage jobs is a giant social problem and the basic bitches are conditioned to think that more for someone else is less for them. So we get no change because nobody wants to give up anything.

Is it the tip of the spear, maybe. Does a rising tide lift all boats, hopefully. For 30 years, this shit has been going in the wrong direction. Maybe we can get a bit of momentum in the right direction.

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Non living wage jobs is a giant social problem and the basic bitches are conditioned to think that more for someone else is less for them. So we get no change because nobody wants to give up anything.
For 30 years, this shit has been going in the wrong direction. Maybe we can get a bit of momentum in the right direction.

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Spot on!
When I started at Big Sky I was paid $ 6.75 p/hr (1992) or roughly 30 years ago. That was with 7 years patrol experience.

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I was able to live pretty decently on those wages, then.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

In today's world, there is no behind the scenes (screens). This conversation is front and center in patrol locker rooms everywhere. Hence Vail acting as they are. This is a Proxy War. Ski Town Workers verse the Machine.

And using an overly simplified supply and demand labor model and comparing patrol wages to other stupid low wages as justification is pretty short sighted. Non living wage jobs is a giant social problem and the basic bitches are conditioned to think that more for someone else is less for them. So we get no change because nobody wants to give up anything.

Is it the tip of the spear, maybe. Does a rising tide lift all boats, hopefully. For 30 years, this shit has been going in the wrong direction. Maybe we can get a bit of momentum in the right direction.

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Agreed. The comments on KSL surrounding this are mind blowing (I mean, I know they shouldn’t surprise me, but they always do). For whatever reason, with everything happening in the world, it feels like we are in some kind of now or never moment. Like labor needs to take the power back or be lost for generations. I’m pessimistic but hopeful.

It's interesting, as a contractor that has owned his own business for more that twenty years, I feel I have a bit of perspective on this.

I get to make up my prices (bid rate, hourly, T&M), present them to my prospective customers (homeowners, HOAs, GCs etc.) and them talk about it.

There is a not insubstantial amount of people that just want everything for less always because that it better for them. It's just the way the think about shit. There is no context or self awareness. They'll drive a $100k SUV to their $2million second home and expect that their cleaner should show up every Monday morning and deal with their bullshit for $100. I used to ask these people "how much do you think it should cost and why?". Now I respond to "that seems expensive" with "sounds like I've finally made it, I've been trying to be expensive for 20 years". Simplified, these people think like the pizza is a finite size and if you eat a piece, their will be less for them.

Other people understand a fair price for a good product or service. They understand their station in life, are grateful, and pay with a smile. They believe that the pizza is an undefined size and we can all work to make it bigger and better.

It today's world the later group prospers quietly and the former group just rages. And the socials gives them a voice. They want to squeeze the max out of the system for themselves and give and do the absolute bare minimum for everyone else.

So yeah, that's my take. Pay everyone in a ski town starting at $30 and see what happens. My guess, just about nothing other that the workers struggle less, perhaps cheeseburgers go from $25 to $27, a few less vaca to CR for the small business owners, some uncomfortable conference calls and 10Q, the PE guys get worked up. Who cares?

End stage capitalism

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Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp

End stage capitalism

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Yes, this plus massive consolidation (zero anti-trust enforcement) has put big corporate in the drivers seat across the whole economy and society. VR being just one example. Patrollers can’t easily seek work elsewhere since Vail sets the market.

The defeatist "end stage" bullshit is weak sauce. Many societies, ours included, has gone through many iterations of labor/capitial imbalance. I'm not saying we are not in a tough spot but this end is near, not my problem, I'm going down the the ship rhetoric is old specially coming from the TGR demographic.

Is you think there is nothing you can do, the powers that be have you exactly were they want you and you are part of the problem. What would Rage Against the Machine or Public Enemy Say?

The ship is sinking, always has been and always will be. The problem is the Captain cares more about the cargo than the crew, and the crew is starting to wonder what motivation they have to save it.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

The defeatist "end stage" bullshit is weak sauce. Many societies, ours included, has gone through many iterations of labor/capitial imbalance. I'm not saying we are not in a tough spot but this end is near, not my problem, I'm going down the the ship rhetoric is old specially coming from the TGR demographic.

Is you think there is nothing you can do, the powers that be have you exactly were they want you and you are part of the problem. What would Rage Against the Machine or Public Enemy Say?

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Late or end stage of capitalism doesn't mean everyone lacks the capacity to lift themselves up or thrive in it. I consider myself lucky enough to have that opportunity. Anyone who has the time to ski a lot and post on TGR is probably in the same boat. But I do believe the poorest masses are becoming increasingly powerless and a larger segment of society.

Has any society ever gone thru what we are about to in terms of algorithms replacing jobs, along with practically all wealth from a job going to a handful of people? Has there ever been such wealth disparity between the haves and have nots? Between the top 1% and the middle class? I'm not sure textile factories becoming automated or any prior imbalances are comparable.

Fwiw, I'm not saying the end of us is near. I just believe the country will turn far more socialist and willing to vote to tax the rich, which seems like the obvious choice in any society where resources become consolidated to the levels we're heading towards. Seems like GOP is very capable of brainwashing the masses for now but that will get harder as things get worse.

Enshittification is what they call it for the decay of online platforms for short-term profits and corporate skiing wants the same. Reduce quality just to the point that the customer will tolerate it, or until after you got their money.

I've run a femur with one experienced patroller from the hill to the ambulance pickup in less than half an hour. I've also showed up to a femur call with 3 EMTs that had basically zero experience, a half hour of fiddling had passed and the patient wasn't in the toboggan yet.

Unionizing is one thing that can be done to give some stability and control back to the workers. I think limits on real estate investment and legislation for right to repair are reachable steps too. At the far end of options, you've got the national razor of France.

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Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp

Late or end stage of capitalism doesn't mean everyone lacks the capacity to lift themselves up or thrive in it. I consider myself lucky enough to have that opportunity. Anyone who has the time to ski a lot and post on TGR is probably in the same boat. But I do believe the poorest masses are becoming increasingly powerless and a larger segment of society.

Has any society ever gone thru what we are about to in terms of algorithms replacing jobs, along with practically all wealth from a job going to a handful of people? Has there ever been such wealth disparity between the haves and have nots? Between the top 1% and the middle class? I'm not sure textile factories becoming automated or any prior imbalances are comparable.

Fwiw, I'm not saying the end of us is near. I just believe the country will turn far more socialist and willing to vote to tax the rich, which seems like the obvious choice in any society where resources become consolidated to the levels we're heading towards. Seems like GOP is very capable of brainwashing the masses for now but that will get harder as things get worse.

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we just had our chance and blew it.

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Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp

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If you are stupid enough to pay those walk-up window prices, then VR is smart enough to take it.

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Originally Posted by Toadman

If you are stupid enough to pay those walk-up window prices, then VR is smart enough to take it.

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Lately a buncha PC tourists have been skipping PC and going to other Utah resorts that have good terrain open and tix are about $100 less a day.

THAT'S STILL OVER $200/DAY.

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Originally Posted by Toadman

If you are stupid enough to pay those walk-up window prices, then VR is smart enough to take it.

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Is it really crazy to think a reasonable person could show up for their first ski trip and have no idea how the pricing works?

I'm one of the dipshits who chose to dance with the devil this year, buy the Epic pass, made non refundable reservations over MLK weekend in Park City, it'll be cool in a flat kind of groomer way I told the wife and daughter. Haven't skied PC since early 2000's, and then it was for one day with an internet friend who had a comp ticket for me. My girl needs to get back to school, that airport is so close, and so my choices are limited. Don't worry, after I drop the family off at the airport I get to go ski at CB, another Vail resort which may or may not be operational (they have my money).

Looking forward to it either way. PC is a cool town. I fully support this strike. I have more fun skiing 450 vert every single weekend than most people ever have skiing. I'll pocket my beers and sandwiches in as always, and life will be good.

What is obvious is that this is incredibly bad for Park City (Vail) public relations. When you sell someone a $300 lift ticket, they order a couple beers and a sprite with a cookie and it is over $50, then they find out the resort is only 19% open because the bean counters in Denver don't want to pay trollers $2 an hour more than a McDonalds worker, they are bound to scratch their heads.

Vail doesn't care though. Because suckers like me and most of you don't have a choice but to buy into the duopoly if we want to ski the biggest resorts in the country. The common wannabee wealthy folk that pay the $300 window rate, they'll rant and rave and swear Park City off forever and go to Vail next year. What other choice do they have? Oh yeah, Alterra. Another devil dance. Either way Vail is willing to shrug off the PR nightmare to put the fear of god into anyone thinking of organizing for fare wages in an increasingly untenable work/life mountain environment.

Vail knows we the people have handed even more power to the oligarchs in a couple weeks. Why should they fold? I mean I hope they come to their senses. But my hope has been dashed a lot lately.

i too bought an epic pass with the intention of using it for a week at PC. if vail doesn't pony tf up soon, i'm fully prepared to ask my doctor to find something, anything, wrong with me and say that i shouldn't be skiing so i can try to get my pass refunded.

We all look down on others to make ourselves feel good. More valuable to society. And mostly to inflate our own self worth.

Plenty of people are posting, looking down on ski patrolers since they have a cushy ski all day hang out and be cool job.

Do I have the aptitude to be certified in anything medical? No. Do I have the skills to be non judgmental and full of compassion when someone is at their lowest? No.

Can I write computer programs? Solve problems using a computer. No.

The list is endless.

Some how we but a value on skills and that value is randomly assigned a number based on societies assumption of what that skill is worth.

I have laughed endlessly since suddenly skilled trades such as carpenters and car mechanics turned the tables in 2020 and started demanding more money. Leaving homeowners and car owners pisssd off because there was little value assigned to someone who would arrive at your home at 11pm to unclog your pipes for you.

We are going to continue to see an uprising of people who feel their assigned value is wrong. I'm gleeful over all this. The next 5 to 10 years is going to make alot of soon to be dead pull yourself up by your boot straps boomers and soft handed office boys pretty upset that my value is encroaching theirs.

Get ready. Ski patrolers and Starbucks baristas are just the beginning.

Ps I was shit faced last night jamming to cam da guapo posting on my way to the beech.

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Originally Posted by uglymoney

…But my hope has been dashed a lot lately.

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Same.

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Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp

Is it really crazy to think a reasonable person could show up for their first ski trip and have no idea how the pricing works?

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Lotsa people are not that reasonable and I wouldn’t be surprised if quite a few of them are caught out by the current pricing. Shit, I was. I don’t ski as much as I used to but I’m up there 2-3 days a week or more, on my season pass. I didn’t realize snowbird had topped $150 for peak season till last year. Now it’s way more. Granted I think it’s a small minority who are paying that. I think most people are on Epic or Ikon now.

Still, well over $300 for PCMR? What a joke.

The googles tell me my $15/hr pay when I left Patrol in 2006 would be $23.50 today. Still not adequate for trying to survive in PC. Would be tough even down here in Salt Lake anymore. I made less than that when I moved here and was comfortable as a single guy but still wasn’t thinking about buying a house on that wage.

Good posts Foggy, you’ve got a good perspective on this stuff.

https://www.kpcw.org/park-city/2025-...hes-to-day-six

Updates of not much happening.