Snow in the PNW 20-21: We may have Corona but Corona doesn't have us!

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Originally Posted by glademaster

Just here to point out that you used discreet/discrete incorrectly.

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Thanks. Always learn something from TGR.

Discrete is used a handful of times in the 14th century, then drops out of common use until the 16th century. Discreet, meanwhile, takes off, drawing on the "discerning" sense of its Latin root. But in the 14th and 15th centuries, spelling wasn't fixed, which meant that the word we know of as discreet was spelled as both discreet and discrete. When the modern discrete came back into style in the 16th century, the spellings of the words diverged: discrete and discreet became fixed as separate words, and their meanings remain separate, despite the confusion between them.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

Should the state plow 410 to the boulevard and do summer maintenance on the boulevard for Crystal for free? Crystal getting the state to pay for road maintenance to their for profit use of public land is getting the better part of the bargain.

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Hmm. Why don’t you cut and paste a fucking legal novel about it.




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FIFY

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Originally Posted by altasnob

Here is Crystal Mountain's permit area, granted to Crystal by the Forest Service in 1960. It is essentially the entire valley, including all the modern day backcountry areas and access to areas outside the permit area (save Goat Lake). Backcountry skiers are right to push back on this powder grab. Crystal's current permit expires in 2032.

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Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac

Any one want to show me- a PNW newb- around something within 90 minutes of seattle on Monday or Wednesday. Only 2 days off in 15. Former avy worker in CO for many years, nothing too crazy maybe 1-2 hour approach and a couple laps, maybe 1/2-3/4 day route? Shoot me a PM.

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Hey I'm a PNW newb too. Would be down to go out on Wednesday. I need a day off work...

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Not enough people smoked weed in high school.

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Best weigh in on this topic.

Just show your Ikon pass when you try to park so they know you're not some no-good freeloader

I'm excited to go skiing soon. K cool.

We will all survive with 4/365 days of restricted uphill access.

It's 1/10 of weekends with powder.

Wake up early tomorrow.
Beat the 90 shutdown, and arrive at Silver Fir
Smash early season pillows on OG indestructible 191 BGs with Adrenalin 16s. Extra heavy, cause im training for Alpental.
If there's enough snow, go for a lap with the new touring setup to learn how Shifts work.
Go to DruBru and buyout their stock of Ski Patrol.

That's the plan for now atleast.

Ignore the pro resort crowd, they probably don’t tour anyway.

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

With nearly all good winter access to national forest land in our state controlled by ski areas (unless you have a sled), yeah it should be part of the deal to use our public land for profit.

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Jesus Christ. If you can’t find good skiing without using a sled or accessing via a ski area parking lot you’re stupid and lack imagination.

There’s plenty of options outside your narrow goalposts.


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Originally Posted by altasnob

Should the state plow 410 to the boulevard and do summer maintenance on the boulevard for Crystal for free? Crystal getting the state to pay for road maintenance to their for profit use of public land is getting the better part of the bargain.

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Are they getting it for free? Does Crystal generate zero tax revenue from operations? I’m curious.


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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Wake up early tomorrow.
Beat the 90 shutdown, and arrive at Silver Fir
Smash early season pillows on OG indestructible 191 BGs with Adrenalin 16s. Extra heavy, cause im training for Alpental.
If there's enough snow, go for a lap with the new touring setup to learn how Shifts work.
Go to DruBru and buyout their stock of Ski Patrol.

That's the plan for now atleast.

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This makes me sad that I got rid of my proto extra-heavy extra-soft Jeffrey 122s. They were perfect for this application! Now I will be attempting similar on the 138s that are more base repair than original base material.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Jesus Christ. If you can’t find good skiing without using a sled or accessing via a ski area parking lot you’re stupid and lack imagination.

There’s plenty of options outside your narrow goalposts.

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I live in Pierce County, along with about a million other people. I try to avoid I-90 because that's Seattle. That leaves me with Crystal and Paradise as touring options within 2 hours of my house. I'll save Paradise access issue for another day. That leaves me with Crystal. And as I pointed out, nearly all of the backcountry skiing accessed from the Crystal Valley passes through Crystal Ski Area's permit area. I don't want to end Crystal Ski Area but I think their permit area should be reduced to their existing/used ski area boundary. That would eliminate silly ideas like putting a chairlift up East Peak/Bullion Basin. And Crystal should be required to allow uphill access to East Peak/Gold Hills/Bear Gap/Three-Way at all times. Ok to designate specific locations of that uphill access. I don't think Crystal can legally prevent backcountry skiers from parking in their parking lot. So that is not an issue at the present moment. But yes, Crystal should have to plow parking lots for these backcountry skiers. Same for all the other ski areas in Washington. This would fulfill the National Forest's mandate to balance the interest of different recreational users.

Edited because my point was pretty much made in the post above. No need to get panties wadded - just want to keep a check on companies operating for profit on public land and hope that they continue to allow access to backcountry users. If we don't keep them in check they will block access as much as they can.

FWIW I buy 1 and sometimes 2 passes every year and do appreciate the need for balance on this and have dropped major coin at the Elk after using Crystal's lot to tour.

Also, the more access at the easiest places (ski areas) the less likely your stashes get found :) Sometime folks with responsibilities and/or kids back in town need a quick fix vs driving all over the state and skinning for 6 hours (which is really fun too, when time allows)

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

If you can’t find good skiing without using a sled or accessing via a ski area parking lot you’re stupid and lack imagination.

There’s plenty of options outside your narrow goalposts.

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Yeah that's totall bullshit man and you know it. Quit with the gatekeeping. Crystal is a unique case of a bully user holding hostage multiple zones without reasonable justification. This isn't about a lack of alternatives, it's a lack of alternative access options. Huge difference. As an aside, IANAL but would be genuinely curious to know if/when "legislative intent" or legislative history" or whatever has ever been the lynchpin in deciding a case. Isn't the law, you know, the law?

Also, re: parking rights, there are rumblings of Baker restricting parking to paying pass holders only, invoking some COVID-related safety reasoning. Usage rights aren't being expanded. Rather, they will be progressively restricted at any and every opportunity.

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

and have dropped major coin at the Elk after using Crystal's lot to tour.)

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You do know that the Elk isn't owned by Crystal?

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

You do know that the Elk isn't owned by Crystal?

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Yes, and I can't believe Crystal plows the lot for them!! :)

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Jesus Christ. If you can’t find good skiing without using a sled or accessing via a ski area parking lot you’re stupid and lack imagination.

There’s plenty of options outside your narrow goalposts.

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Seriously. You'd think Queen Anne Hill doesn't even exist...

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

Yes, and I can't believe Crystal plows the lot for them!! :)

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glad I could help

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...54#post5855654

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Originally Posted by Huskydoc

Yeah that's totall bullshit man and you know it. Quit with the gatekeeping. Crystal is a unique case of a bully user holding hostage multiple zones without reasonable justification. This isn't about a lack of alternatives, it's a lack of alternative access options. Huge difference. As an aside, IANAL but would be genuinely curious to know if/when "legislative intent" or legislative history" or whatever has ever been the lynchpin in deciding a case. Isn't the law, you know, the law?

Also, re: parking rights, there are rumblings of Baker restricting parking to paying pass holders only, invoking some COVID-related safety reasoning. Usage rights aren't being expanded. Rather, they will be progressively restricted at any and every opportunity.

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Fuck you, it’s not bullshit. Just because you and a million others want the lowest hanging fruit and don’t WANT to go any other places doesn’t mean there aren’t options.

I’m glad people don’t get hassled more often for using a plowed lot that they’re using for free but they shouldn’t expect it. I posted above that the uphill travel closures aren’t a big deal if you’re staying out of the way and/or heading out of the SUP area. The reason for these restrictions is that the majority of people skinning at closed ski areas are clueless and selfish. The ski areas are trying to run a business on leased land. If entitled morons are getting in the way I think they should have policies restricting access. Why does nobody have a problem with Alpental doing this?


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fwiw, I have been stopped and threatened with pass pulling and possibly more at Crustal heading up Quicksilver.
I've also been disbarred there for having an argument about how I was treated.

I'm not going to take the risk, despite having a longstanding disagreement with the law and I mistrust the cavalier analysis of what the law means.

https://youtu.be/AL8chWFuM-s

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Originally Posted by Huskydoc

As an aside, IANAL but would be genuinely curious to know if/when "legislative intent" or legislative history" or whatever has ever been the lynchpin in deciding a case. Isn't the law, you know, the law?

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If a statute is not ambiguous, you generally interpret the statute using the plain meaning of the words. But if a statute is ambiguous, you can look at other evidence such as legislative history. In this case, whether you think the statute is ambiguous or not depends on what you want the statute to say. For instance, if you are a snowboarder being charged with this crime, you would argue the statute is not ambiguous, and that the legislature absolutely meant the statute to only apply to skiers. If you are the prosecutor, you would argue this interpretation leads to absurd results and and that the legislative history should be reviewed to show the statute was meant to apply to all ski area patrons.