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So true.Quote:
Originally Posted by KQ
Some nations in Europe have anecdotes of healthy young people that suicide legally. That ain’t right. But at end of life we should be allowed to go peacefully into the long dirt nap. Suffering and not living is cruel.
Had the same thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by KQ
Managing my dementiaed mom 3200 miles away after my dad passed sucked in so many ways.
Same with my mom. She did come out and live across town from us for 5 years before she made the horrible decision to move back to Oklahoma and do her assisted living sunset there.. She was trying to spare us from the hassles she knew were inevitable but only complicated them much worse as she went downhill. She was too unstable to move across the country again at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
old people make bad choices cuz they are old, my parents lasted to 84 & 90 they could have lived longer without some bad choices, neither one lasted long once they started the down hill slide, i think it was only 3 weeks and 3 months
The child becomes the parent – the saga of navigating elder care for your aging parent:
On Friday the 6th of October while cooking a pot roast in her apartment at the independent living retirement home my 92 yo mother slipped and fell sitting down hard on the kitchen floor. She wears a call button for the facility and summoned help which in turn called 911 for a transport to the ER. X-rays revealed she had a fractured pelvis for which there is no treatment but time and pain management so they called me to take her home. At first she could walk with her walker a bit but it was painful and after two agonizing trips to the bathroom she refused to move from her lift chair so I had to resort to changing her as best I could and as often as I could dealing with my own responsibilities which was not an ideal situation. Of course I immediately started inquiring about in-home care but it was the weekend and those sorts of things take time to arrange and require a patient eval before the appropriate care can be set up.
Together we struggled through the weekend but come Monday she returned to the ER this time sent by her PT person who had stopped by to see her when I wasn’t there (she is also a nurse and used to work in in-home care). The ER visit revealed she now had developed a pressure sore from sitting but again the ER returned her home saying she did not meet Medicare guidelines for a hospital admit.
At this point both my mother and I are losing our minds. She’s not eating and the Oxy is making her weird and combative. On a positive note my mother and I had met with the in-home care people (Home Instead) and they were kind and understanding. We set up a care plan to begin on Thursday and I felt there was some light at the end of the tunnel. For those wondering in-home care charges $38/hr. min or 3hr shifts up to 24hr care.
On Wednesday morning when I arrived to care for her, she was incoherent, highly agitated and ashen. I called 911 for a transport the ER (3rd trip in 5 days) where the doctor said “look she’s 92yo, does she have a DNR?” and then just stared at me with the same look I get from my vet when she’s trying to convince me it’s time to put a horse down. I’m no shrinking violet when it comes to the realities of life & death but it was a bit too frank and dismissive. To his credit he listened to me about getting her off the Oxy and onto something else and he called in a social worker to help arrange care BUT he let me know in no uncertain terms that she did not meet Medicare guidelines for a hospital admit. (Note: the minute she got into the ER she was much much better I think in part because she felt safer there than at home)
I went round and round with the social worker about what help was available out there and basically it came down to private pay at a rehab or nursing home because at this point she was beyond assisted care. Private pay for such a facility is 14K/mo and they want it upfront which sounds like a horrible amount (well, it is I guess) but when you break it down to 24/7 care for 30 days it’s only $22/hr. Still it’s a lot and I will admit I was in a bit of a tailspin. I managed to get my mind around this only to have the social worker tell me there were no beds available in any of the care facilities in town and I might need to look in other cities. Add to this the looming threat by the ER that she would be sent back home again and things started to get very dark for me.
During this whole time I’d had been trying to reach her primary care doctor multiple times as had her PT and the ER. I needed him to order a hospital bed for her apartment so it could get billed to Medicare. I never received a call back. All I managed to get from him was a script for Oxy that he called in to the pharmacy. These meds ended up being stolen by someone on the staff at her retirement home before I could pick them up.
So there my Mom is lying in the ER and me telling the ER over and over “It’s an unsafe discharge. You cannot send her home” per the advice of my mother’s PT. Finally they agree to hold her in the ER overnight because it was getting late and I go home to try and sleep.
The next morning I show up at the ER to take her home and I’m informed they admitted her! I almost danced a jig! I’m not sure what changed to allow for the admit under Medicare but praise the powers the be it was glorious news! Now all I needed was for her to get in three midnights at the hospital and Medicare would pay for 20 days at a rehab facility. Every time I visited her in the hospital I held my breath that they wouldn’t tell me she was going to be discharged until finally they told me she was going to meet her three midnights and they would hold her until a bed opened up at a rehab. She ended up spending a week in the hospital and made strides with her PT while she was there.
Yesterday she was moved to a rehab and that took a lot out of her. I haven’t been to see her yet this morning (need some time for myself and to get things done around the farm) but hopefully she’ll have adjusted a bit, she’s pretty strong for 92. Her family is really long lived with a average age of 103 so it’s not out of the realm of possibilities that she can come back from this enough to be able to get by with assistance. She def. will be moving into the assisted side of her retirement community after this which means I need to pack up her apartment and store what won’t move with her and set up her new room which will be considerably smaller than her spacious apt. (Asst costs soooo much more than independent and costs must be cut unfortunately).
I’ll tell you what – getting old is not for the faint of heart. Makes me really think about how much time I have left and the fact that there will be no one there to care or advocate for me since I’ve no spouse or children. Probably need to make an escape plan absent a massive heart attack or some accident taking me out. Hopefully it won't be dementia so I will be fit enough to make that decision.
Godspeed to any and all of you caring for aging parents.
My wife and I no longer have living parents. So our thoughts are turning to what our adult children will have to go through. We are in our 50's, so we are young. However, old age is just around the corner. And the health issues just seem to sneak up on you and multiply at this age. Our current homework right now is the advanced directive. Which we will have to remember to change in ten our 20 years. Of course I want CPR at this age! And making sure all of our accounts have the proper beneficiary information.
Sorry KQ :( We've been dealing with this for 5 years now and the costs at the facility my FIL is at are up to $12k/mo. It fkn hurts all around.
My Aunt & Uncle had a great plan. They moved in to a community that had independent, assisted and nursing (a beautiful place on Mercer Island in WA on Lake Washington called Covenant Shores). They downsized their house to an apartment then eventally moved into assisted and the nursing. I don't think their kids realized what a kindness this was for them. Kids never had to make decisions or clean out a big house full of a lifetime of memories. Def. the way to go if you can swing it. I've already started to think that in 15 years time I'll probably move off the farm into town where I can walk to stores and what not. Where it not for the winters here and the isolation on the farm I wouldn't but I tend to like to play it safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by riser4
(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover
So many emotions. So much guilt for thoughts of hoping for a end to it all. Hang in there. I keep thinking there has to be a better way but for the life of me I can't figure it out.
Damn KQ, rough road but some hope in there.
As my parents hit 80, I’m hearing more stories of elderly folks who not only can’t rely on their kids, but actively get taken advantage of.
Guess I’m saying that having kids is no guarantee. I’ve seen multigenerational groups of close friends do a great job of handling this. Especially in the LBQT community when I lived in Seattle. Acting as health advocate, home nurse, whatever was needed. It takes a village and all that.
KQ,
My dad lived in our in law apartment the last dozen or so years of his life. He died at 89, 10 years ago this month.
During the time he lived with us, we experienced everything from his complete independence to full on 24/7 care at times.
His mantra was old age ain’t for wussies
I was never a fan of agency care. They take a huge cut and the minimum hours can be a hassle sometimes. I recommend asking around at her rehab facilities on the down low. I’d ask people that I liked if they “knew anyone that might be interested” and almost always either they or a family member or friend would take the gig. It always worked out pretty well
Being in a hospital and old is a total roll of the dice. Without an advocate, I saw a lot of elderly get written off. No doubt my dad would have been dead many times over if I hadn’t been there to educate the docs on what his baseline was prior to being admitted. That almost always got a reevaluation of the care plan because he was pretty vigorous and motivated on a regular daily basis. But on more than one occasion, he’d be in rehab, get sick w pneumonia or somethjng , be sent to the hospital and the general reaction was just make the old guy from the convalescent home comfortable w drugs and move on. Then I’d show up and tell them he was weight training that morning and the medical attitude would flip 180deg
Anyway, if you think she might be able to get back home but need some help, as around. It’s available for less than 38 per hour generally. I heard just as more shady stories of agency caregivers, so protection wise that’s not really a justification for their rate
Let me know if you have any other questions. You can get more than 20 days from Medicare but she has to show continual improvement the whole time.
I'm so sorry KQ. The hospital/ER circuit is so brutal, but hang in there and do everything in your power to say everything positive that you want to share with your mom!
I lost both my parents this year, both 73 years old. Dad passed away in 7 days after a cancer diagnosis and I didn't get home in time to say good bye. My mom on the other hand had been sick for a long time with various ailments only to be diagnosed with cirrhosis last November. It was pretty far along, so we weren't expecting much more than a year or two. Cirrhosis is a horrible disease and she was in and out of the hospital before and after my dad passed away (in fact, she was admitted to the hospital the morning he passed). She passed away at the end of September after we moved her into a living facility when she could no longer take care of herself. It was an awful experience, and it was at one of the nicest care facilities in Bend.
I'm only sharing this story because after my dad passed away so suddenly, I was forced (in a good way) to spend weeks with my mom while we tried to get her out of the hospital and back to her home. I feel that with her finally being forced to be sober I could remember my mom as she was when I was a kid. No wild mood swings, finally asking me questions about me and my family instead of complaining about anything and everything, and actually remembering conversations from the night before. I was with her the last few days of her life and I think I said how much she meant to me. I think I told her all the things I wanted to say. It was all such a scary blur I really can't remember what I said... But there hasn't been a day since that I wished I could have just one more conversation with them both to let them know what they meant to me.
I guess, I'm just sharing because it is all so fucking overwhelming that I wonder if I forgot to say everything I promised myself I'd tell her. So be sure to step back, take a deep breath and remember to say what you want to say while you still can...
Paging dr kevorkian. Or Soylent green.
I wish we could allow assisted departure. For the old and infirm living useless lives.
My mom is ready. I would hold her hand while they pushed the syringe. Just as I would for an animal.
I dread getting to that stage.
And for myself would prefer a peaceful exit.
To everyone responding and sharing your stories - thank you from the bottom of my heart and all the best to you and your loved ones. My reasons for sharing this story/my journey so far were partly selfish because I needed to get it out and partly to help others who may soon be faced with this situation. I say again, there has to be a better way.
McSki - yes, I noticed a huge change in staff attitude towards my mother when I mentioned she was cooking a pot roast and not feebling stumbling along.
GGL - I have noticed that too. Mom and I have had some good conversations. Glad you were able to reconnect.
CS - yep
Vibes KQ. As you know, I lost my Mom this summer. I left my life in a ski town to care for her. The past two years have been the most fulfilling of my life, despite being elbow deep in bodily fluids as I changed her diaper. You have a tough road ahead of you. But the unconditional love your Mother gave you when you were young and unable to care for yourself is now your responsibility to pay back. And your soul will be richly rewarded for that.
You and your mother have been in my thoughts through out this. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry
My dad let me know my debt had been paid in full after his umpteenth diaper disaster requiring near hazmat levels of clean up. Hard to believe in hindsight all the gross things you can get used to doing after a while. 🤪Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry
I'm so sorry KQ. This is my future nightmare that I hope does not come to pass. My parents -- still together -- are 91 and 88 and living on their own and doing as well as two people their age could be. Which makes me incredibly lucky and I am so grateful. But nobody gets out of here alive, and I know it is just a matter of time.
It's what family does. Or is supposed to do. Taking care of elderly parents or relatives is the most unselfish thing you will ever do. Like you said they did it for you....unfortunately some don't see it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry
Their loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by halliday
Well if it adds some levity to an otherwise difficult time, my mom is in hospice care and has requested the "End of Life" cocktail. Doc #1 said ok and she meets doc #2 next week. She told me "I hope you appreciate that you will not need to deal with my diapers", to which I responded, "never would have. It was a long walk in the woods for you". ;) We laughed.
Damn, KQ, I’m sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations. If there’s ever anything I could do…just say the word.
This whole thing has me thinking about stocking up and stashing stuff to help me to check out just as I reach the point where I’m about to become a burden. Funny/sucks how it’s easier for me to get a pistol than a bunch of opiates.
^ Nice, l2s.
Point #1 - yupQuote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
Point #2 - sounds amazing, I'd hope the same for me
Actually it was the most growing thing I have been done in my life . I consider it the greatest gift I received from my parents allowing me to be the son they always deserved as we walked the last mile together.Quote:
Originally Posted by halliday
My parents died within a 100 days of each other and my mom only spent a week in a nursing home while we prepped the house for her and dad never left the house. However it wasn't an extended run so I'm very thankful for that.
I'm heading home to spend 2 months w Mom this winter. She is fine now but almost 82. A couple more yrs I figure I'll be there full time. I built a small cabin behind her house.
Best of luck KQ, and all.
I can't believe a small cabin is gonna be nicer than the van.Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
I'm overwhelmed by the parental love and respect you've all exhibited, Dog Bless you all. Best wishes KQ to you and your Mother.
And LV2S, MS: that's my plan - going out while you can still joke about it, best way to be remembered.
We went through similar stuff with my parents; my mom passed in 2020 and my dad around the end of 21. I think I might have chimed in upthread someplace. It sounds like you’re making good decisions and being a good advocate for your mom, KQ. You have nothing to feel guilty about. It’s easy to see from your participation here that you’re a good soul. Hang in there.
Just visited Dad and did some seasonal work on the property/house in prep for winter. Stubborn old curmudgeon is going to try ‘one more winter’. He has finally been getting a bit of help doing the housework, and had a bit of luck finding some help this summer around the property (but hasn’t secured reliable help for the winter season). Woodshed is full. His knees are getting worse and had a bad fall this summer that took over 5wks to recover (as well as an 82yo can).
We continue to make the offer for him to live in with us. My LPN wife has been working in home healthcare (govt provided) here this past summer, and has a great handle explaining what is/is not available, and why he can’t get assistance living so far out from the nearest town (30min drive, across a ferry). But, he admits he’s just too lazy to sell the place if there is any possibility of him staying another season. Stubborn fool, but I get it.
KQ, I’m that ER guy, that’s my job. At my facility we routinely admit elderly folks for “observation” then transition to “inpatient” with the plan of swing bed status for inpatient skilled nursing/rehab. I work in a tiny rural hospital so I have to cover the role of ED, and hospitalist.
We do this stuff daily, it’s almost always pelvic/hip fractures in elderly. Most get discharged to Assisted living, some long term care, some hospice, some to home. It’s tough in big hospitals to admit these folks, and it’s wrong not to at the same time. At my tiny hospital we get no push back, and frequently do “respite care” social admits for cases just like your moms.
The system is broken, but so are Americans values towards our elders. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. It’s a brutal time universally for everyone, including the helpless ER providers.
It’s been a while since i had to navigate this stuff, but I recall “observation” was a real dangerous thing when it came to medicare coverage at the hospital. I recall always making sure that if he was getting any drugs to make sure he was inpatient or Medicare wouldn’t cover w a/b and part d was a crap shoot depending on the plan. At any rate, always press hard and make sure they get the inpatient stamp if your leaving them overnight or the bills go from easy to argh quickly
The boys have been doing reno's and buying RE so today i sent them some $$$$$ they can really use, why wait till I am dead ?
hopefully they won't put me in a shitty home eh
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
This is your thread which started with the first quote above and the second six years later. Hugs for you both and thank you and everyone on here for sharing and caring. You guys rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Trackhead: Thanks. I don't fault the ER. They were sympathic and expressed their frustration with the system. The doc that was so frank with me spoke of how broken our current healthcare system is and the shortage of beds/care givers.
I moved to a part of the country I would have never even visited on vacation. The adjustment was very difficult for me but being able to be there and help out with everyday things while I am home from work (I travel for work). My wife takes care of all finances, legal issues, etc and when Im home I take care of everything else. Dishwasher install, planting, yard, cooking etc..It's super rewarding when you can see my in-laws really appreciate all of the help. They have nothing to worry about because we have it under control. My father in law passed last year and my MIL was recently moved to assisted living (still very close to us and built and managed by the developers of our community). She comes over to supper three or so days a week and we do all of her laundry and send her back with enough leftovers for days. Every time she leaves to go back to her place I always joke that she is going back the Savannah Quarters Women's Correctional Facility which is met with a prompt whack on the shin which her cane, and a peck on the cheek. Not bad for ninety. Hoping for a few more.Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
Switzerland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
when you suggest the most expensive optionQuote:
Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater
these days canada is pretty good with killing off
It's free. Yes, you have to get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
This^^^^. Medicare doesn't tell the hospital they can't admit someone who doesn't fit their criteria. They just won't pay for it. KQ--I'm disturbed they wouldn't admit her the first and second visits. The hospital had no trouble admitting my mom with very similar circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
(She also had an medical alert button--and refused to use it when she fell and couldn't get up with a broken pelvis, so she lay on the floor all night.. She eventually got home for several more years. I stayed with her for a few weeks when she got out of the hospital, then my sister-in-law found 3 women to do shifts of home care for a very reasonable price. Detroit. My Mom, bless her heart, when she had a bad pneumonia: "Don't take me to the ER." Me: "Are you saying you don't want aggressive care, that you want to be kept comfortable and let nature take its course." Mom: No! Let them do everything they can, just don't take me to the ER." Me: "That's not how it works." I think what kept her going as long as she did was that she had rooms full of clothes she had never worn and was planning to wear them all before she died. Which would have made her 140.
KQ--best wishes for you and your mom on the next leg of your journey together.
Well, I am at the end of our journey together. I have been caring for my mom since she had a stroke while waiting for her End of Life potion from hospice
It has been very stressful dealing with the EOL BS they made my mom jump through and the delays as she withered away, but here we are.
The drugs have been delivered and today is the day she is finally released from years of pain from fucking West Nile virus.
We have gotten really close over these last weeks together and it will be very hard to say Bon Voyage, but it is time.
Hug the people you love.