Official ATK Binding Thread

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

18mm would be a lot! 26mm for Tecton. More for Shift (can't recall what I measured)

That OG ATK toe "elasticity" claim is strange. Salomon/ Atomic Backland toe clamping force is also strong. It's strong enough that you can skin uphill without putting toe lever up. That isn't touted by Atomic/ Solly as elasticity .

The new Atk....now that sounds like true elasticity

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to be fair - I can't recall ATK ever calling it elasticity for their regular toes - it was more to pre-emptively cancel out anybody else from calling a regular tech toe elastic, which it is, but to such a miniscule amount that it is closer to negligible than not imho.

Some brand - was it G3 when the Zeb came out? I can't recall - made this graph of the clamping force and I seem to remember that they labeled it as elasticity because their break away threshold was higher (more travel by a mm or two) than other tech bindings on the market - hence the binding was more elastic. So yeah...

I’m as big of a ATK fanboy as anybody, but I can’t see how this is better than the shift. Way less elasticity at the toe, less at the heel. Sure it’s lighter but it’s still not 2000m day after day light.

The tecton has a vital flaw in it’s release IMO so I don’t care about it.

my bad - 18mm each way, so 36mm elasticity in the toe.

I was wondering if it is possible (or already has been done) to convert the previous generation Crest10 to the "magnet heel flaps" as seen on the latest version of the Crest.
One can not just exchange the flaps but if the whole "tower" on the heel unit is exchanged I imagine it should work-maybe also with parts from another model like RT11 or something similar...

Wondering which parts could be used here?

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

my bad - 18mm each way, so 36mm elasticity in the toe.

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elasticity is measured in a single direction. it doesn’t get added together to produce an elasticity ‘total’

it is measured at the highest retention value setting to maximize the range for return to center

shift was communicated as 47mm in the toe, just shy of the sth2 16s 52mm, mostly related to the din range

big wing levers generally mean big toe elasticity. hence horizontal spring design’s challenges in this department

ATK doesn't recommend user adjustment of the tower. It's possible, but no way to procure the parts.

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Originally Posted by westoxified

elasticity is measured in a single direction. it doesn’t get added together to produce an elasticity ‘total’

it is measured at the highest retention value setting to maximize the range for return to center

shift was communicated as 47mm in the toe, just shy of the sth2 16s 52mm, mostly related to the din range

big wing levers generally mean big toe elasticity. hence horizontal spring design’s challenges in this department

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Correct. To close the loop on this the elasticity in this graphic below was measuring return to centre one wayAttachment 507606

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Originally Posted by singlecross

I went with the SkiTrab TR1 for my travel ski and am excited to give them a go this season. They were under $430 shipped from Italy.

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Dang, that's a steal! I have been very curious about the TR1 but the price has kept me away (although I've been busy and haven't looked super hard).

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Originally Posted by westoxified

elasticity is measured in a single direction. it doesn’t get added together to produce an elasticity ‘total’

it is measured at the highest retention value setting to maximize the range for return to center

shift was communicated as 47mm in the toe, just shy of the sth2 16s 52mm, mostly related to the din range

big wing levers generally mean big toe elasticity. hence horizontal spring design’s challenges in this department

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ah - thanks for the clarification :)

https://youtu.be/Cl2376n_dM4?si=BNusbBCqvMEYCt5g

just started this review video on the hy free from cripple creek. Hard to tell if it's a puff piece because they get early access and want to stay in good standing w/ atk (and also sell their products). Mostly positive, mention the bench test twice, wish they'd show it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl2376n_dM4

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Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1

just started this review video on the hy free from cripple creek. Hard to tell if it's a puff piece because they get early access and want to stay in good standing w/ atk (and also sell their products). Mostly positive, mention the bench test twice, wish they'd show it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl2376n_dM4

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Ugh. It's a puff piece. "Only binding with this much retention". "Only toe piece with this much clamping force". Lou would have been more careful

https://wildsnow.com/18803/comparo-t...er-g3-dynafit/ - here's the piece about toe clamping force fwiw

Marker, Atomic/Salomon pintech, G3 and AtK are all up there. Imo that's a good safety feature for uphill as most people can tour uphill without locking out toes

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Correct. To close the loop on this the elasticity in this graphic below was measuring return to centre one wayAttachment 507606

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Just out of curiosity, what was it that was measured back in 2019?

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Originally Posted by Wildsnow

Toe lateral elasticity (only measured for “toe release bindings”
– Alpine sample binding (Salomon): ~20 mm
– Atomic-Salomon Shift: ~22 mm (I could go a few millimeters more but 22 is where consistent return to center occurred.)

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https://wildsnow.com/20514/tech-bind...ticity-travel/

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Originally Posted by kolkritan

Just out of curiosity, what was it that was measured back in 2019?



https://wildsnow.com/20514/tech-bind...ticity-travel/

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It was return to centre on a machine. I can't even remember the name of the machine but it was in a shop in Whistler.

Edit. Ah interesting. There's a big variation in Shift toe elasticity for Lou's test

I was never a Lou fanboi but his stuff always seemed legit if not super dorky - I could never keep up with some of it because I was just beatering around on tele gear for 25 years


this doesn’t feel like just a puff piece to me

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

I’m as big of a ATK fanboy as anybody, but I can’t see how this is better than the shift. Way less elasticity at the toe, less at the heel. Sure it’s lighter but it’s still not 2000m day after day light.

The tecton has a vital flaw in it’s release IMO so I don’t care about it.

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What's the vital flaw in release on the Tecton?

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Edit. Ah interesting. There's a big variation in Shift toe elasticity for Lou's test

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Does Lou even know how to turn dins beyond 8?

I would worry a lot about the Hy mangling the plastic on boots, you can see in the hype video from ATK that the Scarpa boot they're using is all scratched up. At a certain point it probably has an effect on performance.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

I would worry a lot about the Hy mangling the plastic on boots, you can see in the hype video from ATK that the Scarpa boot they're using is all scratched up. At a certain point it probably has an effect on performance.

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same thought. lots of sharp al edges.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

It was return to centre on a machine. I can't even remember the name of the machine but it was in a shop in Whistler.

Edit. Ah interesting. There's a big variation in Shift toe elasticity for Lou's test

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But isn't the elasticity of a binding measured as the return to center distance?

What makes me confused is that, if I understand everything correctly, it has been stated that elasticity is measured per "single side", so that the 52 mm of the STH2 or the 47 mm of the shift is an apples-to-apples number with the 18 mm of the HY. But in the two tests referenced above, one by you (?) and one by wildsnow the results seem to both be very consistent with the thought above that the HY with a stated 18 mm "single side" elasticity would correspond to 36 mm when comparing the numbers given for the alpine bindings, since the only other binding (that I know of) that explicitly states "single side" elasticity is the Tecton at 13 mm: https://fritschi.swiss/en/bindings/tecton.php .

Now, the table you supplied lists Tecton at 26 mm (=2 x 13mm), and the Wildsnow tests show that the return to center (=elasticity?) of Tecton is 17 mm (~13 mm, or at least a little closer to 13 mm than 26 mm) and for the Shift 22 mm (~47 mm / 2). All this I think very much contradicts that the "single side" toe elasticity is an apples-to-apples comparison with the no-explicitly-stated single side toe elasticity of the alpine bindings. It also seems weird that ATK and Fritschi would feel the need to explicitly state that it's toe elasticity "per side" if that was already the standard for measuring.

insta stories, sorry about the format don't feel like transcribing:

Attachment 507826
Attachment 507827
Attachment 507828

someone get on that pre order :)

? So ATK sells these Hy Bindingungs uncertified and makes the buyer a tester? If the product is bound to hit the market in Fall 2025 but a small number is sold right now this can not be the final design. I would stay away untill 2026.

I was excited for this release, but I admit I’m not seeing it.

A step in the right direction, but a bit too much weirdness going on.

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Originally Posted by obi wan kenobi

? So ATK sells these Hy Bindingungs uncertified and makes the buyer a tester? If the product is bound to hit the market in Fall 2025 but a small number is sold right now this can not be the final design. I would stay away untill 2026.

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right, wild they are making randoms be their beta testers on pre production and they have to pay for the privilege to do it.

Well as expected, they all sold out

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Originally Posted by kolkritan

But isn't the elasticity of a binding measured as the return to center distance?

What makes me confused is that, if I understand everything correctly, it has been stated that elasticity is measured per "single side", so that the 52 mm of the STH2 or the 47 mm of the shift is an apples-to-apples number with the 18 mm of the HY. But in the two tests referenced above, one by you (?) and one by wildsnow the results seem to both be very consistent with the thought above that the HY with a stated 18 mm "single side" elasticity would correspond to 36 mm when comparing the numbers given for the alpine bindings, since the only other binding (that I know of) that explicitly states "single side" elasticity is the Tecton at 13 mm: https://fritschi.swiss/en/bindings/tecton.php .

Now, the table you supplied lists Tecton at 26 mm (=2 x 13mm), and the Wildsnow tests show that the return to center (=elasticity?) of Tecton is 17 mm (~13 mm, or at least a little closer to 13 mm than 26 mm) and for the Shift 22 mm (~47 mm / 2). All this I think very much contradicts that the "single side" toe elasticity is an apples-to-apples comparison with the no-explicitly-stated single side toe elasticity of the alpine bindings. It also seems weird that ATK and Fritschi would feel the need to explicitly state that it's toe elasticity "per side" if that was already the standard for measuring.

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I really have not been following this discussion in detail and I don't know much about ATKs or the newer generation of elastic touring bindings in general. However, I think some of the numbers being cited for elasticity of alpine bindings seem unlikely.

The width of a conventional adult alpine ski boot sole, ISO 5355, is 69mm. I find it hard to believe that a Salomon STH2 or other alpine binding could have 52mm of one-sided elasticity at the toe. One would be pulling the boot to the side by 75% of its width. I'm at my relatives' and don't have an alpine boot or binding to play with, but I'd think if the boot moves that far it's coming out.

I don't know where the 52mm number originated. In another of his posts on elasticity, https://wildsnow.com/20514/tech-bind...ticity-travel/ Lou Dawson says 20mm for a Salomon alpine binding, doesn't say which one. So I could believe 26mm for a one-sided number, but 52mm seems too much.

Alpine boot sole dimensions:
Attachment 507908

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDxq2...M1dnZta3ozMDZr

I think everything about the binding looks well done, but for whatever it's worth I just cut the breaks off a shift (leaving the most minimal piece for stomp block and riser), and replaced the afd with an ATK freeride spacer. The weight is under 675g.

I'll post more in the shift thread, but for those that don't mind taking a hacksaw to shit, you can get a better binding at the around the same weight.

where did you get your penchant for fucking around with bindings kid? [emoji848][emoji12]

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Originally Posted by JRainey

I think everything about the binding looks well done, but for whatever it's worth I just cut the breaks off a shift (leaving the most minimal piece for stomp block and riser), and replaced the afd with an ATK freeride spacer. The weight is under 675g.

I'll post more in the shift thread, but for those that don't mind taking a hacksaw to shit, you can get a better binding at the around the same weight.

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Please share, very intrigued.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Yes i'd like to see that

Sent from my SM-S711W using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by JRainey

I think everything about the binding looks well done, but for whatever it's worth I just cut the breaks off a shift (leaving the most minimal piece for stomp block and riser), and replaced the afd with an ATK freeride spacer. The weight is under 675g.

I'll post more in the shift thread, but for those that don't mind taking a hacksaw to shit, you can get a better binding at the around the same weight.

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wait I’m confused. Are you trying to say the shift is a better binding than the HY? Hard disagree if so.

Never skied the Hy, but think knowing what we know now, it's pretty clear the Shift is designed with less compromises. (Even though it's a 12 din kids binding, at best).

What I'm trying is to take the binding with less compromises and introduce compromises, but just in the area where I can live with (no brakes for touring, and simpler afd)

The Hy very well might be a better "touring binding" out of the box, but I'm not going to buy it. It was a good reminder that I should take the knife to Shifts that I wasn't using.

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Originally Posted by JRainey

Never skied the Hy, but think knowing what we know now, it's pretty clear the Shift is designed with less compromises. (Even though it's a 12 din kids binding, at best).

What I'm trying is to take the binding with less compromises and introduce compromises, but just in the area where I can live with (no brakes for touring, and simpler afd)

The Hy very well might be a better "touring binding" out of the box, but I'm not going to buy it. It was a good reminder that I should take the knife to Shifts that I wasn't using.

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What I really dig about your described mod is that you’ve taken a hacksaw to the two things that most people don’t like about shifts- the brakes and the adjustable afd - instead of “fixing” them.

[also posted in the MYOFS thread] Re: ATK freeraider 15: anyone know what size Allen wrench is needed for the freeride spacer shims? It seems to be somewhere between 2 & 2.5mm (seemingly the only two I have that are close). Thx!
[& WOW is the iOS emoji curse officially gone?]

On my Raider 12s with the push button rear brake I have one freeride spacer that’s tiny Phillips and the other is T10


Edited because the emoji curse is still with us

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

[also posted in the MYOFS thread] Re: ATK freeraider 15: anyone know what size Allen wrench is needed for the freeride spacer shims? It seems to be somewhere between 2 & 2.5mm (seemingly the only two I have that are close). Thx!
[& WOW is the iOS emoji curse officially gone?]

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T10

Thx

[seems so obvious when it works, but i’m slowly learning I can’t see shit anymore…]

Emoji curse. Damn

People have been mentioning the toe height in uphill mode

Attachment 508541