We are the bastards the rest of the world thinks we are

:nonono2: Over 1/2 of the federal budget is currently spent on the military. The federal budget deficit (the amount required to balance the debt) is in the TRILLIONS! The wealthiest 1% of Americans and large corporations have had their taxes CUT. War is the justification for expenditure. The wealthy and the corporate entities that they own are the benificiaries. As are the govts. of countries such as the U.K. who don't have nearly as high a ratio of military spending as the U.S. Who's the puppet and who's the puppeteer? Who pays?

If you think these are not dangerous times, you are a FOOL.

"Terrorism: ...use of force to demoralize, intimidate, and subjugate, esp. such use as a political weapon or policy."

Which country or group uses this technique more effectively or completely, internationally than the U.S.?

KD is justified in weeping. The American system has been adulterated to a point, rendering a thoughtfull minority powerless, and achieving a tyranny of the masses.

Available alternatives : aquiescence or dissidence. I've made my choice.

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Originally Posted by Summit

So let me get this straight. You are saying we as a country deserve to have bad things happen to us because 51% of the electorate voted for Bush? And the other 48% or those that can't vote? Thats the stupidest load of self-hating unamerican horseshit I've heard during the entire election. Yea. That is worse than people saying a vote for Kerry was a vote for Terrorism. They said bad things would happen but never that we deserved bad things. You did.

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Could not agree more.

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Originally Posted by Arnold Babar

Available alternatives : aquiescence or dissidence. I've made my choice.

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Good Work!

Arnold's in freaking MUSTH, I'm tellin' ya!

So, as an American - I should be concerned about another Country's population having a pre-conceived notion about ME if they don't agree with our Government's policies? Sorry, but uhhhhh - why?


I work with citizens of every Middle Eastern Country. Yes, they have pre-conceived notions of Americans. However, they're HERE for a reason. It's better here than it is there. I can have civilized discourse with any of them, wherever they might be from, and DO on a regular basis. Does my being a Republican matter at ALL to them? No.

We're all aware this board is predominantly Democrat, or at the very least - left leaning. But some of the posts & comments I've seen over the last 2 days just leave me confused. "Ashamed to be an American"? Wanting to move out of the Country because of the Election result?

What the hell? John Kerry just garnered the second largest number of popular votes in American History. And he didn't win. Fucking DEAL with it.

Republicans dealt with Clinton for 8 years. Did you hear this constant BLEATING about wanting to move to another planet? About being "ashamed" to be an American? Fuck no. Was there bitching about it? Yep. We just had a Democratic election in which Bush won by 3 million votes.

The extremist overreaction of some of you is what you should be ashamed about, not being an American. You had the opportunity to put Kerry in Office by mobilizing your side & rallying behind a strong message. You failed on BOTH counts. Move on. (no pun intended.)

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

So, as an American - I should be concerned about another Country's population having a pre-conceived notion about ME if they don't agree with our Government's policies? Sorry, but uhhhhh - why?

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Uhhhh - go back and read the title of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Telephil

Could not agree more.




Good Work!

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If one steps on a bees nest and then gets stung, it may be due to bad luck or innattetion to where one is stepping. If one sees a bees nest, kicks it, and then gets stung, he deserves it. If one kicks the bees nest repeatedly, causing others to get stung, he is malicious. If one stands by, getting stung, while another kicks a bees nest (on his behalf, for we all hate bees), and does nothing, he is a moron. If one is FORCED to stand by while another kicks a bees nest, and then forced to buy the bees nest kicker a new pair of boots (a shiny pair with steel toes), and then forced to buy the kicker a bee suit to protect him from getting stung, then suggests calming the bees with a little smoke, and avoiding stepping on their nest, and indeed help them build nests where we might not want to step on them, but is told to shut up, buy more boots and bee suits, that person might eventually refuse to buy more boots or suits or anything for the bee kicker. Dissent.

Good plan Arnold,

maybe you could start a movement like Abbie Hoffman. Become famous like Abbie Hoffman. Lose your family like Abbie Hoffman. Be forgotten like Abbie Hoffman.

Be historically insignificant...like Abbie Hoffman.

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Originally Posted by bad_roo

Arnold's in freaking MUSTH, I'm tellin' ya!

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"...when the male elephant is in Musth, he is very aggressive and sexually active..."

Sadly, you are only half right :wink:

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Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

Good plan Arnold,

maybe you could start a movement like Abbie Hoffman. Become famous like Abbie Hoffman. Lose your family like Abbie Hoffman. Be forgotten like Abbie Hoffman.

Be historically insignificant...like Abbie Hoffman.

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Certainly seems like you've both remembered and given Abbie Hoffman some significance.

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Republicans dealt with Clinton for 8 years. Did you hear this constant BLEATING about wanting to move to another planet? About being "ashamed" to be an American? Fuck no. Was there bitching about it? Yep. We just had a Democratic election in which Bush won by 3 million votes.

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Are you kidding? Whitewater and the Monica Lewinski scandals are just a couple of the ways Republican dealt with President Clinton. They cried "wag the dog" when Clinton sent a couple of missles after Osama (too bad he missed) during the Lewinski scandle. For God sakes they impeached Clinten because he lied about a blow job. Almost every conservative talk show host said we should be ashamed during the Lewinski scandle.

I don't agree with saying your going to move to Canada because Bush won, but to suggest the Republicans act with more dignity than Democrats is just ignorant. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

Republicans dealt with Clinton for 8 years. Did you hear this constant BLEATING about wanting to move to another planet? About being "ashamed" to be an American? Fuck no. Was there bitching about it? Yep.

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i think trying as hard as is humanly possible to have him kicked out of office is a little more than bitching. i remember a lot of repubs talking about how they were ashamed to have someone they deemed unfit for office running the country. maybe it wasn't you personally who was ashamed, but lots of your party mates were.

and thats okay, but you want it both ways it seems to be. double fucking penetration.

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Originally Posted by Grange

I don't agree with saying your going to move to Canada because Bush won, but to suggest the Republicans act with more dignity than Democrats is just ignorant. :rolleyes:

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So then to say the Democrats act with more dignity than republicans is also just ignorant right? So we're all fucked up then, or is it just one sided.

Steal This Book, Gyptian. Not looking to start anything, just refusing to be complicit in what I feel is wrong. It takes independence of thought and spirit. You might not understand.

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Republicans dealt with Clinton for 8 years. Did you hear this constant BLEATING about wanting to move to another planet? About being "ashamed" to be an American? Fuck no.

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Heard it all the time.

Once, while waiting to cross the street, I heard this man trying to convince the woman he was with that the country looked to their President for moral guidance so Clinton's Oval Office BJ was a cancer on our society - ppl would become confused and not know what to think. She wasn't buying it - the poor man was beside himself trying to convince her Clinton had just doomed our country and we all shared his shame.

Don't really want to defend Clinton, but 8 years of peace, economic prosperity, and a BALANCED BUDGET (conservatives like those, right?). All they had to complain about was some :tdo13: on a dress.

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Originally Posted by Telephil

So then to say the Democrats act with more dignity than republicans is also just ignorant right? So we're all fucked up then, or is it just one sided.

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Yes to say Democrats act with more dignity is ignorant. I would agree with your statement. Democrats whine a lot too. I just saw a news story out of California where a woman said she is moving to Canada because of Bush. I don't like it when one party claims the other is just a bunch of winy brats when in reality they all wine when it doesn't go their way.

When elections go against liberals they talk about moving to Canada, Europe, etc. When elections go against right-wingers they talk about stockpiling weapons and ammunition so they can overthrow the government if necessary. Yes, I'm stereotyping.

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Originally Posted by Grange

I don't like it when one party claims the other is just a bunch of winy brats when in reality they all wine when it doesn't go their way.

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I know. I prefer Cabernet Sauvignon, personally.

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Originally Posted by The AD

When elections go against right-wingers they talk about stockpiling weapons and ammunition so they can overthrow the government if necessary.

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Yes but wy do they move to MT?? Why can't they move to Texas beside Hank Hill.

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Originally Posted by Arnold Babar

Steal This Book, Gyptian. Not looking to start anything, just refusing to be complicit in what I feel is wrong. It takes independence of thought and spirit. You might not understand.

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read the book, saw the movie.

rolling joints I knew. the pipe bomb tutorial was remedial at best. which foreign currency works in the NY Sub system gave me something to do with my excess when I got back. the Lira (can't remember which denomination) made a particularly fine quarter.

next.

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Originally Posted by Grange

Are you kidding? Whitewater and the Monica Lewinski scandals are just a couple of the ways Republican dealt with President Clinton. They cried "wag the dog" when Clinton sent a couple of missles after Osama (too bad he missed) during the Lewinski scandle. For God sakes they impeached Clinten because he lied about a blow job. Almost every conservative talk show host said we should be ashamed during the Lewinski scandle.

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"Clinton sent a couple of missles after Osama"? Are you kidding? This event created Al Queada as we know it! This became the Muslim world's equivalent of 9/11!

Clinton sent two cruise missiles into Afganistan to divert publicity away from the Lewinsky scandal. The first struck what Clinton called a "Chemical Bio-Weapons facility", that turned out to make nothing but aspirin, powdered milk and baby food in the city of Khost. It was next to a mosque filled with people at prayer and the explosion killed 167 innocent people including one of Osama Bin Laden's relatives. Bin Laden's organization was a joke until he declared a "Fatwa" and called for a Holy War Against America and got 100,000 volunteers for his then sparse network.
The greater story here is what happened to the second missile. It went off course (supposedly), but did not explode and landed in Pakistan. The Pakistanis were all over the news claiming that this was "A great gift from Allah!" to be used in their war against the Western Infidels and the hated Hindus in India. So now the Pakistanis had our most Advanced Guided Ballistic Missile Technology to reverse engineer, and Nuclear Warheads to put on top of it all, as they had tested their brand spanking new nukes just the month before. And Clinton handed all of that to them on a silver platter just because his penis was having a bad day.
Later that day Clinton admitted to the federal crime of having perjured himself to the Grand Jury and to having "Relations" with Miss Lewinsky, which gave Congress really no choice but to impeach him. The bombs were dubbed by the press as "The Monica Missiles", but did not have the distracting effect Clinton hoped.

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Originally Posted by bad_roo

Uhhhh - go back and read the title of this thread.

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I'm a bastard. Feel better?

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Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

which foreign currency works in the NY Sub system gave me something to do with my excess when I got back. the Lira (can't remember which denomination) made a particularly fine quarter.

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The Indian Rupee worked well as a quarter substitute at automated highway toll booths.

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Originally Posted by powpig

"Clinton sent a couple of missles after Osama"? Are you kidding? This event created Al Queada as we know it! This became the Muslim world's equivalent of 9/11!

Clinton sent two cruise missiles into Afganistan to divert publicity away from the Lewinsky scandal. The first struck what Clinton called a "Chemical Bio-Weapons facility", that turned out to make nothing but aspirin, powdered milk and baby food in the city of Khost.

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FACT PATROL! FACT PATROL!

WRONG CONTINENT, JONG!

The factory was in SUDAN. The claims that it was an aspirin factory are not proven. We the public are not sure what it was. If you understand the nature of the production process for chemical agents and biological warfare agents and the fact that so much of the technology and precursor chemicals and machinery are dual use, you'll understand that WE may never know.

The missiles fired at Afghanistan were aimed at Al Qaeda leadership.

There were two simultaneous against two continents involving as many as 79 missiles with the bulk of them fired at terrorist camps in Afghanistan.

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The greater story here is what happened to the second missile. It went off course (supposedly), but did not explode and landed in Pakistan. The Pakistanis were all over the news claiming that this was "A great gift from Allah!" to be used in their war against the Western Infidels and the hated Hindus in India. So now the Pakistanis had our most Advanced Guided Ballistic Missile Technology to reverse engineer, and Nuclear Warheads to put on top of it all,

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FACT PATROL FACT PATROL Monica missiles

Two weeks before the missile strikes, Al Qaeda bombed two US embassies simultaneously, one in Kenya and one in Tanzania. 257 people DEAD and over 1000 injured by those terrorist attacks.

FACT PATROL FACT PATROL What really happened

There were more than two missiles in these two strikes on two continents. Timeline: NSA intercepts show Bin Laden and Al Qaeda leaders were to meet at a certain time in a certain camp. The NSC meets and decides on a course of action. COMSUBPAC or CINCPACFLT relays orders to one of our SSNs or surface ships in the Red Sea which, at the precise time given fires several UGM-109 TLAM/D (maybe Cs at Sudan) better known as a Tomahawk cruise missile. These weapons were employed to allow us to strike deep in enemy territory without risking pilots lives. Most of the missiles hit their targets (there were six sites struck in Afghanistan, SOME ON THE PAKISTANI BORDER) and detonated. Unfortunately, for reasons unknown, the Al Qaeda leaders were not at the one particular camp when the missiles hit. Some reports have suggested they missed being killed by as little as 20 minutes. Other camps were destroyed with casualties.


THE MISSING MISSILES

The missile(s) (there may have been two) that for some reason did not detonate (I don't know why they don't have "menace" or endrun triggers like our topedoes, or perhaps those mechanisms failed). Sooooo the missile skidded into the ground at about 500mph. The BGM-109 was put into service in 1983. The missiles fired were either Block II or Block III (we have IIs IIIs and IVs in inventory are building IVs and working on IV-2, and designing Block V). It is not likely they could gain that much from the missile. Al Qaeda would gain nothing from the missile. As for Pakistan, comparable cruise missiles can be purchased from Russia and China and the USA has been selling Pakistan advanced weapon systems to the Pakis for decades (including the bulk of their air superiority fighters: American built F-16 Falcons). The bad thing would be if the missiles ended up in China.

FACT PATROL FACT PATROL nuclear cruise missiles?

Even if the Pakistanis somehow reverse engineered the missiles, they could not mount it with a nuclear warhead. Pakistani nuclear weapons are primitive (late 40s early 50s US/USSR tech) and they have not achieved the minaturization required to make a nuclear warhead for a cruise missile that size (the range of a UGM-109 is probably about 600 miles).

The London Daily Mirror's real front page today...
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergall...age-110304.jpg

And for some more thoughts from the rest of the world...

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/to...309110542.html