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I am sure that if those laborers were in the same position they would keep the 20 mil, minus 9 mil for uncle sam of course. But you must be the exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
Whatever it is you do for a living, I sincerely hope you become very successful, and then I hope nobody comes along after 20yrs of hard work and tells you that you do not deserve it. Because that would be really lame.
You guys are correct, the OP argument is a bit of a canard, on the whole. But the reality of Catholic, Mormon, and Muslim sanctioning the production of more children for families that in no way can afford them is a true and despicable reality.
I have the perspective that I hold on abortion because having been through one (vicariously, I guess?) probably saved my life, and very possibly the potential future of two other individuals. The choice was an easy one at the time for both of us, and I am sure there have been no regrets. We are still friends 17 years later.
Earn is the key word here. Labor has a value just like any other commodity. CEO's tend to think their labor is worth vastly more than most. We all work hard.
That doesn't prove anything tho. Yes, human greed is universal. So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Might be lame, might also be true.Quote:
Whatever it is you do for a living, I sincerely hope you become very successful, and then I hope nobody comes along after 20yrs of hard work and tells you that you do not deserve it. Because that would be really lame.
You said it well. I also have close ties to the local Teen Challenge program. These are women who have figuratively and literally been pulled from the gutters from drug and alcohol addiction. The program helps clean them from their addiction, give them self esteem, and help them become productive members of our societies. It is awesome to see when people are given a second lease on life. Many of those women are from the latter group described. I've even employed one in my business. Your right, they are going to find fulfillment wherever they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
Really, what it comes down to is that every person needs to be loved and respected. I've voiced some strong opinions in this thread. But I'm more concerned that every young person feels valuable and loved. A lot of these issues will fall into place after that.
we all make choices. some people prefer not to take additional risk in life. Collect a paycheck and let someone else take all the liability. Take a job making 20 an hr while others are raking up debt in school, etc etc. Sure you can single out the Fortune 500 ceo`s, but for everyone you did I could give you an example of some poor farmboy who grew to greatness from nothing. I know people who are millions of dollars in debt after trying to start their own companies, but I dont see their "laborer's" comming around to help pay the rent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
Hard work is only a small part of it. The vast majority of people that "earn" that kind of money bet their great granchildren to do it.
What I find most fucked-up about this bill is the fact that it's major proponent is a female - Julie Bartling or something - AND she's a democrat. The reason I find this revolting? Because there is NO EXCEPTION which states you may have an abortion if you were RAPED!!! :mad:
I have no problem with a state voting to ban abortions. If the voters concur, then so be it! Even though I'm pro-choice, the voting process dictates. However, I'd also like to see how the main proponents of this bill - male and female - feel after they unwillingly get a dick shoved up their ass or in their vagaina.
You're kidding me, right? Saying that the vast majority of CEO's come from the farm or from the lower classes of society is a straight lie. Most that I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with come from the lucky sperm club, or at best took risks with millions of dollars of inherited money. Sure there are a couple of farmboy millionaires, but they are the exception, and not the rule.
In the end I have no problem with the wealth generated by capitalism. I do have a problem with the mindset that you owe nothing to society. A country that can generate this type of wealth can feed, clothe and care for its own, all of them, if we are truley moral and ethical beings???
This is one of the most poignent posts in this whole thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by joshbu
You know what, he's right. Sure I would like law to protect the unborn as much as possible. I would love to see even compromises in partial-birth, etc... But the bottom line is the fact that many people in the anti-abortion camp stand on a soap box and preach right and wrong but at the same time are not willing to be part of the solution. There are a lot of hypocrites and I need to even reflect on it myself. Would my wife and I be willing to open our home and adopt a child right now?
It's not easy and I apologize to those who have felt defensive because I appear to be "right wing" on this. Sure, I would love the court to interpret the protection of "life" to extend to a fetus. But even if that's not the case, through education (both kinds of sex education) and loving on kids, a lot of these situations may be deterred.
You may feel this is pie-in-the-sky false hopes, but I'm not going to give up on kids.
I will be the first to admit that ceo's of public companies make too much. But the same arguement could be made for a ball player. You make it sound like it is handed to them. It is not. Nobody will let some Trustafarian run their billion doallr company. Alot of people who make that kind of money started their business`s. They took enormous risk to do so. And their employess expected to get paid in good times or bad. The vast majoirty of them fail, and the employes lose nothing compared to them.
save a million bucks, then go start a company, hire a bunch of people, pay ridiculous workers comp rates and insurance, try to get some sleep during the first 2 years and then tell me you dont derserve it if you are lucky enough to turn a profit.
What can you say.... Ambitious people have ambitious offspring.Quote:
Originally Posted by MassLiberal
I would assume that most come from somewhere in the middle. Not the over privileged and not the farm boys either. Although there are a few of both of those groups as well.
Whoa, I come back from lunch and post a few responses only to find the threads moved a whole different direction.
My previous two posts don't really fit in the rhythm there. JONG move on my part:fmicon:
I did the same thing above - but it doesn't matter - people go on tangents all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnoe
No worries, that was Cono Estes fault. You know how these log cabin repub types like to operate.:biggrin:
Well, you can be a real dick sometimes, but when you're right you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
capatislm is a meatgrinder. If you are lucky enough not to get slaughtered and you pay all of your taxes, you dont owe much else to anybody. Because afterwards you will have learned that just about everybody, and especially the govt, tried to rip you off and generally ruin you. With the exception of the dot.com millionaires, very few have an easy time doing it. And some, if given the chance to do it over again, would have kept their jobs working the silverado chair at squaw.
Now Trustafarians, thats a whole new arguement. But people who "earn" it dont owe anybody an explanation.
Your arguement is better served discussing inheirted wealth vs. earned income. i for one think it is disgusting that soembody who earns their money pays more in taxes than someone who simply inheirits.
:biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
iceman is cyber cop.
Exactly!! So the ones who and get slaughtered deserve nothing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
How about the ones who are lucky give a little back to the system/society that created them...in the end it'll fuel the economy and make life better for everyone (including themselves) anyway...
They do. They pay millions in taxes. Roughly half, if it came to them as income. What, you want more? 2/3, 3/4??Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky
hey what's the big deal ? to me it seems this fits quite neatly ;)
you already got a president who once was elected by the minority,
maintain an above the law holiday camp on a carribean island,
20% of your fellow citizens live in poverty while 5% possess 80% of the wealth and now you complain about some chicks getting unwanted children ?
This thread is a classic. You guys start off on the abortion debate, discussing a persons right to choose, freedom," keep your moral righteousness away from me", and now you are in here discussing wealth redistribution and how a minority of people "owe" something to others and as Cyber Cop says "that if we are truely moral and ethical people" we should force others to give to others. Freakin Classic!!!
You guys are awesome.
I wish I had time to cut and paste it all. Its a keeper.
If this thread goes on much longer it's going to start looking like Tele Tips in here.
Oh you poor disillusioned fool. if you think the wealthy actually pay their alloted share in taxes then I wonder who dropped you when you were little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Does the term "tax shelter" mean anything to you? Do you have one? How about off-shore accounts or a dividend-based salary? I don't, and I'm fucking waaaaay above the poverty line. My Father-in-law, however, has 3 big houses, several (5) Corvettes, Commercial properties, 2 pensions and is the CEO of a $5M/year hobby-turned-company. He'll be the first to tell you his "Income" is less than mine, and be proud of being able to play the system in that fashion.
I'll bet you that any 5 of the posters in this thread pay more in income tax than the Trumps of this world.
"Appear" to be right wing? You've got to be kidding me--you support a law that outlaws abortion from the moment of conception without an exception for rape or incest. You can't get any more right wing than that. You can talk about compassion, pulling kids out of the gutter, and education all you want, but all that talk does not make you a moderate. Extreme pro-lifers always bring up these issues; it helps obscure the fact that they would "love" (your word) to have a law that forces women to keep a pregnancy that results from rape or incest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnoe
Settle down there big guy, I think you are above insults. If you read my post, I said "if they recieve that money as income" Income while a general term, in my example meant salary. Im not talking Ken Lay, he is the exeption. And as a US citizen you are required to report foreign income, so unless you committing tax fraud, or concealing assets in off shore accounts they do not help. But yes, too many people get away with it. In fact I am working with the Justice dept right now trying to recover money that was stolen from me and hidden in Hong KONG. I am about to send a half a dozen chinese business men to jail for fraud and corruption. I know all about it and I think with my most recent experience, and my job general experience I will know more than you ever will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I am gald you are going to inherit all that money. Since you are waay above the poverty line, will you give it to those in need?
control yourself please.
Heh. To Jail.... right.
The Chinese will look at your US DoJ goons and ignore the fuck outta them.
And getting insulting is fun. Funner than this thread, at least.
Poopyhead.
The only things missing are a Journey song and---oops, too late:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
PENNE WITH SMOKED TROUT AND SUGAR SNAP PEAS
1 lb penne rigate
3/4 lb sugar snap peas, trimmed and halved diagonally
2/3 cup heavy cream
1 (1/2-lb) whole smoked trout, head, skin, bones, and tail discarded and flesh coarsely flaked
1 tablespoon finely grated fresh lemon zest
1/4 cup chopped fresh dill
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon black pepper
Cook pasta in a large pot of boiling salted water 2 minutes less than package instructions indicate, then add sugar snaps and cook until sugar snaps are tender, about 2 minutes more. Reserve 1/4 cup cooking water, then drain pasta and sugar snaps in a colander and return to pot.
Boil cream in a 1- to 1 1/2-quart heavy saucepan, uncovered, 2 minutes, then add to pasta along with trout, zest, reserved cooking water, dill, salt, and pepper and toss until combined.
Makes 4 main-course servings.
Is Cono tonghands?
Quote:
Originally Posted by natty dread
Natty, you are correct that I'm conservative in those areas. But labeling me as a right wing conservative is false overall. This is just one subject and I am conservative in that one area.
You will not be able to change my mind (and vice versa) on this. I believe that a fetus is a life. A life that needs to be protected. A pregnant rape victim is an atrocity. But destroying a fetus (in my mind it is a baby) is worse in my own moral system.
Let's not get caught up in hostility between the two sides. That resolves nothing. What we CAN do, though, is find a middle ground and try to minimize the situations that call for an abortion. Neither the extreme right nor the extreme left want to find a compromise. Unfortunately that leaves about 80% of American in the middle stuck with a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation.
And nobody would ever force you or your partner to have an abortion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnoe
I really hope you didn't mean to say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnoe
A law that flat out prevents that woman terminating a preganancy - and by your standards even the morning after pill would be illegal - is the atrocity and probably almost as much of an injustice as the rape itself.
You're probably right that we won't change your mind though - which is sad.
Can we get back to Cono's chinese mafia story now?
We're kind of going in circles and you're exactly right. If I don't believe in it, then don't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by seatosky
But let's go back to the beginning of this whole thread. If I believe the correct interpretation of the constitution is that it protects "life", and in my mind a fetus is considered a "life" and thus protected, how could I NOT support the anti-abortion movement.
We're going full circle but it really comes down to how each of us believes the constitution should be interpreted. I'm not a bad person because I interpret a document different from you. I'm a bad person because I ski on skis with a waist smaller than 78MM:eek:
Wait a minute, here. I have stated that I would love to see a compromise in this whole arena. Personally, my wife and I would not do the morning after pill. But it sure beats the heck out of an abortion at 4 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
Guys... and gals. I would LOVE to find compromises.
Group hug on page 9. Stay tuned.:redface:Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnoe
Not if I can help it DICKBAG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
Only if abstinence is taught before the hug... ok, condoms too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
Keep in mind that Dividend income is taxed twice. Once at the Corporate level and then again at a personal level. Yes the personal level ilikely lower than the person's income tax bracket but because it is being double taxed I would be surprised if these people really come out ahead as much as you would like to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Of course it's life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnoe
What we're talking about here is viable cellular construct that undergoes a genetic reorganization and begins dividing rapidly. Them cells is alive.
Someone else brought up the notion of what is human and I think that that's a better starting point than simply stating the obvious.
When should that be? Is it really at week 24 when there's a rudimentary nervous system in place? Later, when that nervous system is capable of a response to external stimuli (if it isn't already)? Is there a way to assess cognition in utero? Perhaps this is where we ought to define the onset of "humaness"
Edited for clarity
I love you mang. I'll see you on the flipside. Just stop the heavy petting.:tdo13:Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot