Your Everyday Touring Pack

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Originally Posted by concierge

For the broader thread, I am surprised how many people are asking for a water bottle holder on the shoulder strap. I love hearing this feedback. It is something I considered and prototyped, but ultimately decided not to do for a few reasons. I could potentially add it back since I already prototyped it. A design philosophy I went with on the pack is being "anti christmas tree" meaning I want the pack to be super clean on the outside and not have things hanging off of it. So I don't have tons of attachment points like other packs have. I dropped the water bottle holder because it added weight for something not 100% necessary, made the pack less clean on the outside and I just don't love having the bulk of a water bottle on my chest on a tour. Hearing how important this is to others definitely makes me rethink that stance.

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It makes sense to have an attachment point for a bottle holder, which adds negligible weight and a lot of utility. I LOVE the shoulder bottle holder on my Mammut Spindrift pack, which is a stowable stretchy pouch that performs better than aftermarket holders from Camp/Dynafit/Etc because it hold the bottle snugly against the strap and it adds negligible weight and bulk. For me, I prefer to have a soft flask in my jacket pocket because it is annoying to have the weight and bulk of a bottle on the backpack strap, and the bottle nozzle will freeze in winter temps. However, I do a lot of spring touring where I'm not wearing a jacket and in those scenarios the bottle on the shoulder strap is the best solution.

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Originally Posted by concierge

For the broader thread, I am surprised how many people are asking for a water bottle holder on the shoulder strap. I love hearing this feedback. It is something I considered and prototyped, but ultimately decided not to do for a few reasons. I could potentially add it back since I already prototyped it. A design philosophy I went with on the pack is being "anti christmas tree" meaning I want the pack to be super clean on the outside and not have things hanging off of it. So I don't have tons of attachment points like other packs have. I dropped the water bottle holder because it added weight for something not 100% necessary, made the pack less clean on the outside and I just don't love having the bulk of a water bottle on my chest on a tour. Hearing how important this is to others definitely makes me rethink that stance.

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Thanks for the constructive thinking.

For me, touring in the Sierra Nevada (California) 90% of my touring days, the main things I want to have access to during an ascent (1-3 hours) are water/liquid, snacks, lip balm, navigation/phone/camera. Lip balm and phone can go in my pants pocket. So, just need access to liquids and food. Everything else can wait until the top.

Hydration hoses freeze so those don't work well. Personally, I don't like the hard plastic bottles on shoulder straps - those are bulky and annoying. I use and prefer collapsible water bottles/bladders. Those are great and far less obtrusive for skinning and skiing. They fit great in the Cirque 22 shoulder straps.

On that note, I strongly recommend you check out Cirque 22 shoulder/vest straps for inspiration. They are a bit more vest-y than your design, but certain design elements (stretchy pocket, shockcord loops for gloves) could be incorporated in more "normal" shoulder straps.

Also, for me, a zip pocket on the hip strap (or two - better yet) is mandatory. Do that plus some way to carry water on your straps - A+ for me.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

It makes sense to have an attachment point for a bottle holder, which adds negligible weight and a lot of utility. I LOVE the shoulder bottle holder on my Mammut Spindrift pack, which is a stowable stretchy pouch that performs better than aftermarket holders from Camp/Dynafit/Etc because it hold the bottle snugly against the strap and it adds negligible weight and bulk. For me, I prefer to have a soft flask in my jacket pocket because it is annoying to have the weight and bulk of a bottle on the backpack strap, and the bottle nozzle will freeze in winter temps. However, I do a lot of spring touring where I'm not wearing a jacket and in those scenarios the bottle on the shoulder strap is the best solution.

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The spindrift pack looks well executed. I do have an attachment point for a bottle holder on the pack. It is just 10mm webbing that is horizontal across the strap so it should be compatible with most add on holders.

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Originally Posted by meter-man

Thanks for the constructive thinking.

For me, touring in the Sierra Nevada (California) 90% of my touring days, the main things I want to have access to during an ascent (1-3 hours) are water/liquid, snacks, lip balm, navigation/phone/camera. Lip balm and phone can go in my pants pocket. So, just need access to liquids and food. Everything else can wait until the top.

Hydration hoses freeze so those don't work well. Personally, I don't like the hard plastic bottles on shoulder straps - those are bulky and annoying. I use and prefer collapsible water bottles/bladders. Those are great and far less obtrusive for skinning and skiing. They fit great in the Cirque 22 shoulder straps.

On that note, I strongly recommend you check out Cirque 22 shoulder/vest straps for inspiration. They are a bit more vest-y than your design, but certain design elements (stretchy pocket, shockcord loops for gloves) could be incorporated in more "normal" shoulder straps.

Also, for me, a zip pocket on the hip strap (or two - better yet) is mandatory. Do that plus some way to carry water on your straps - A+ for me.

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Fully agrees on this. Any pack without two hip belt pockets is a non starter for me these days. A water bottle holder on the straps isn't quite mandatory but is a huge perk, and can be done for only 10g or so each side. Not exactly a huge sacrifice in terms of weight!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by concierge

The spindrift pack looks well executed. I do have an attachment point for a bottle holder on the pack. It is just 10mm webbing that is horizontal across the strap so it should be compatible with most add on holders.

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I think this is the way. Keeps it simple and configurable. I haven't used an external water bottle holder because I'm a camel and typically only do water/food during transitions. Webbing strap works great for attaching a radio mic. Excited to see what you come up with.

I'm also camel-ish but would like an option to put a small soft bottle in easy reach - and would never use a hydration bladder with a hose... just picture it freezing, leaking, puncturing, etc.

Hey everyone, I had some dm's asking where people can get notified when we launch. I put a basic coming soon page up. You can enter your email to be notified of the launch at raideresearch.com. I won't be sending out frequent marketing and take not spamming customers seriously. I really appreciate the support from fellow mags and hope to continue building great products for the type of skier here, that I feel the big brands overlook. We have some really cool stuff in the pipeline for winter 2024 in apparel (a great softshell pant finally) and avalanche safety devices that will depend on doing well this season. I will put a more formal post up when we launch around the first week of October.

Fuck yeah. As this forum ages and inevitably careens towards the EpicSki singularity I'm constantly asking myself why I still spend time here.

The answer of course is so that I can get the jump on niche gear developments like Raide and stay 3 steps ahead of my gear obsessed friends.

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Originally Posted by concierge

Hey everyone, I had some dm's asking where people can get notified when we launch. I put a basic coming soon page up. You can enter your email to be notified of the launch at raideresearch.com. I won't be sending out frequent marketing and take not spamming customers seriously. I really appreciate the support from fellow mags and hope to continue building great products for the type of skier here, that I feel the big brands overlook. We have some really cool stuff in the pipeline for winter 2024 in apparel (a great softshell pant finally) and avalanche safety devices that will depend on doing well this season. I will put a more formal post up when we launch around the first week of October.

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Subscribed. Ski touring packs and softshell pants are a couple of my obsessions. I’m interested in what you come up with.

Same, subscribed.


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So you're saying that I can finally upgrade from my 15 year old softshell Patagonia pants?

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Originally Posted by John_B

So you're saying that I can finally upgrade from my 15 year old softshell Patagonia pants?

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15 years on one pair of pants? Do you only ski 5 days a year?

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Originally Posted by thefortrees

15 years on one pair of pants? Do you only ski 5 days a year?

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I'm half man half Aquaseal at this point. And I probably average out to 25 days a year over that span but predominantly touring.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Have you used this one? I was specifically curious about how well it carried skis.

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Yes, I've used it for 50 days or so. Ski carry is good for the weight of the pack. It also has skimo style carry which is nice briefly carrying skis on your back (you can do it without taking the pack off) but not very comfortable and takes some practice. Overall I think the pack has has an excellent design. BUT the fit is not very adjustable and IIRC it only comes in one size. I have a slightly longer than average torso. I lent the pack to a taller friend one day and he couldn't get it to fit right.

I've seen complaints online about the top not opening wide enough. I don't get it. Maybe they gave shipped some with a draw strong that is too short? I've been using top loaders for decades and this one works just fine.

Thanks for those of you who subscribed! It means a lot!

For those just seeing the thread now you can read the overview of the pack I am developing earlier in the thread and put your email in at raideresearch.com to be notified on launch.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

Subscribed. Ski touring packs and softshell pants are a couple of my obsessions. I’m interested in what you come up with.

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kootenayskier, I don't want to hijack a pack thread with softshell talk so please DM me with what you would like to see in a softshell pant.

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Originally Posted by concierge

Thanks for those of you who subscribed! It means a lot!

For those just seeing the thread now you can read the overview of the pack I am developing earlier in the thread and put your email in at raideresearch.com to be notified on launch.



kootenayskier, I don't want to hijack a pack thread with softshell talk so please DM me with what you would like to see in a softshell pant.

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Subscribed. Very interested about your backpack(and softshells too). I do around 80 touring days per season, work&free time and looking for perfect pack has been never ending mission. Things that seems little bit annoying when shopping, turn into bigger problems when it's windy, dark and -25c and you deal with it everyday. So far Spindrift has been best but little bit too small from my packs.

Lähetetty minun LYA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

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Originally Posted by concierge

Thanks for those of you who subscribed! It means a lot!

For those just seeing the thread now you can read the overview of the pack I am developing earlier in the thread and put your email in at raideresearch.com to be notified on launch.



kootenayskier, I don't want to hijack a pack thread with softshell talk so please DM me with what you would like to see in a softshell pant.

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Perhaps I’ll start (or contribute to) a dedicated softshell pant thread.

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Originally Posted by concierge

Thanks for those of you who subscribed! It means a lot!

For those just seeing the thread now you can read the overview of the pack I am developing earlier in the thread and put your email in at raideresearch.com to be notified on launch.



kootenayskier, I don't want to hijack a pack thread with softshell talk so please DM me with what you would like to see in a softshell pant.

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Perhaps I’ll start (or contribute to) a dedicated softshell pant thread.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

Perhaps I’ll start (or contribute to) a dedicated softshell pant thread.

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Please, at least use the search function first (JONG).

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=317070

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Originally Posted by concierge

Thanks for those of you who subscribed! It means a lot!

For those just seeing the thread now you can read the overview of the pack I am developing earlier in the thread and put your email in at raideresearch.com to be notified on launch.



kootenayskier, I don't want to hijack a pack thread with softshell talk so please DM me with what you would like to see in a softshell pant.

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See:
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...i-pants/page11

Just got an email for this https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/products/crux-40

Holy expensive batman!

The Crux has the avalanche pouch inside the pack again... why? That's my main complaint about my BD cirque and only reason I was looking to get a Headwall at all.

Hyperlite's pricing structure is whack too. Mass produced packs in Mexico are nearly the same price as custom ones in the USA. If I am going to spend $500+ might as well pony up a little more for a fully custom pack.

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Originally Posted by davjr96

Just got an email for this https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/products/crux-40

Holy expensive batman!

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What a moronic design. The soft pockets have no place in skiing.

For $25 more you can get diagonal carry! Oh, and add on a $19 voile strap. Sternum strap and whistle comes standard tho - steal!

It’s not even that light… roughly the weight of the descentionist and heavier than the head wall 55

I’ve cooled considerably on Hyperlite in the last year or two, after being something of a fanboy. I wore out a Ultamid 4 in 40 days of use, to the point it has a cartoonish amount of tyvek tape on it, and was told to send it in for “patches” when i reached out. The fabric was riddled with micro tears from wind. The same year a hip belt came completely off a Porter 4400 during a three day traverse, and they told me there was nothing they could do. At all.
I’ve since replaced the Mid with a Mountain Laurel Designs one that is the same size, same weight, and half the price in sil-nylon. The money I saved there let me work with McHale to get a pack that actually carries well and will last a long time. None of it is cheap, but I’m solidly stoked on heavier but reliable equipment right now.

As for that pack, maybe some of the features are decent but I agree stretchy fabric is a short term choice, and the 50 lb load rating seems hard to believe unless they have some new magic in there that’s different than my current Hyperlites.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by davjr96

Just got an email for this https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/products/crux-40

Holy expensive batman!

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The pack I am releasing in a few weeks will be coming in at $349 (maybe even a cheaper launch special), comes in at 1080g so its much lighter, uses more durable ultralight fabric (Challenge Ultra 400x), has a much, much better avy tool carry, a back panel access that actually lets you access all the stuff (Crux is small), and really matches the Crux feature for feature with a better helmet carry, better access and more. If you are considering buying the Crux you will not regret waiting a few weeks. If you need more info feel free to DM and subscribe at raideresearch.com to be notified of the launch.

got the email too. its a weird tact. their packs used to be ultralight but now theyve slowly added features until this pack is 1250g?

i had been coveting the headwall but i think this pack signals my ticket off the hmg fanboy train. i know its hard to please everyone but whats the selling point now? its essentially a white tax as some packs have many (if not all) the features here at around the same weight and cheaper.

i wish more packs had the strechy external pocket though.


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The buzz around Hyperlite has always been puzzling to me. They were never much more than stuffsacks with straps... Cilogear had a similar hype, for no good reason. Maybe people fall in love with the white.

You'll be really happy with the McHale pack. Yes, it weighs more, but it will legitimately carry 50# without deforming. I have had 70# in mine (on Denali), and it makes 40# seem like nothing. Plus it will probably last you forever.

For day tours I think hipbelt pockets are non-negotiable, and 25L is just fine for me. In colder places I'd probably want more like 30L. I usually use an even smaller Mont Bell one for solo tours when I don't take a shovel. It has pockets on the shoulder straps as well as hipbelt pockets, and I really love being able to get to snacks & water without removing it.

1.2kg and still no load lifters…

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Originally Posted by riff

I’ve cooled considerably on Hyperlite in the last year or two, after being something of a fanboy. I wore out a Ultamid 4 in 40 days of use, to the point it has a cartoonish amount of tyvek tape on it, and was told to send it in for “patches” when i reached out. The fabric was riddled with micro tears from wind. The same year a hip belt came completely off a Porter 4400 during a three day traverse, and they told me there was nothing they could do. At all.
I’ve since replaced the Mid with a Mountain Laurel Designs one that is the same size, same weight, and half the price in sil-nylon. The money I saved there let me work with McHale to get a pack that actually carries well and will last a long time. None of it is cheap, but I’m solidly stoked on heavier but reliable equipment right now.

As for that pack, maybe some of the features are decent but I agree stretchy fabric is a short term choice, and the 50 lb load rating seems hard to believe unless they have some new magic in there that’s different than my current Hyperlites.


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Damn that’s a bummer on the mid4, I mean the DCF failing isn’t even HMG’s fault necessarily. The MLD is cool, but those 15cm in height make a big difference IMO

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Originally Posted by climberevan

The buzz around Hyperlite has always been puzzling to me. They were never much more than stuffsacks with straps... Cilogear had a similar hype, for no good reason. Maybe people fall in love with the white.

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I'm not sure I'd compare cilogear to Hyperlite at all. The cilogear packs aren't even that light, but my 40B (in the original Xpac and ripstop, before they switched to MOB) looks no worse for the wear a lot of days being treated pretty rough. I've never known anyone with a cilogear pack who has managed to wreck it.

I think the attraction of cilogear is that you can use their d-clip system (or whatever they call it) to arrange a single pack in a huge number of ways and easily attach or detach stuff.

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Originally Posted by climberevan

The buzz around Hyperlite has always been puzzling to me. They were never much more than stuffsacks with straps... Cilogear had a similar hype, for no good reason. Maybe people fall in love with the white.

You'll be really happy with the McHale pack. Yes, it weighs more, but it will legitimately carry 50# without deforming. I have had 70# in mine (on Denali), and it makes 40# seem like nothing. Plus it will probably last you forever.

For day tours I think hipbelt pockets are non-negotiable, and 25L is just fine for me. In colder places I'd probably want more like 30L. I usually use an even smaller Mont Bell one for solo tours when I don't take a shovel. It has pockets on the shoulder straps as well as hipbelt pockets, and I really love being able to get to snacks & water without removing it.

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The Mchale has already done a 100 mile traverse in the chugach and a number of other solid outings- makes a real load feel livable. Worthy purchase for sure !


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The OG Patagonia Descensionist is 990g for a size M/L 40L pack and checks all the boxes. Some have commented in this thread that it wasn't that durable, but it's been fine for several seasons for me. Good capacity, side and top access, separate avy pocket, simple ice tool carry when needed, single hip pocket. Paraphrasing Colin Haley, its 3000 year old technology - it's amazing how companies can still screw it up.

I think people just keep falling for new pack mania thanks to wishful thinking. Companies market some new design and people think "this new one will finally be comfortable!"

The answer is to carry less shit and get stronger. If you truly need a heavier load there is no substitute for a frame that actually transfers weight onto the hips, and that's not happening in a 600g pack.

Am i the only one that thinks white is a bad color for ski fabrics?
I mean, i guess it’s great if you do not want to be seen poaching…

The right people don't wear white after labor day

I’m surprised that the Cirque packs get so much hate in this thread. I have owned and used all three versions, (45L, 35L, and currently use the 30LT). It is one of the best laid out packs I’ve ever used, it carries skis really well, keeps my things reasonably organized, and isn’t very heavy (mine weighs in at 725g).

The avalanche took pocket is inside the main pocket, which, in my opinion, is ideal. I’d hate to have an outer, zippered pocket fail for some reason, and then worry about my tools coming out. With the cirque, even if the keeper clip fails, your tools are still secure inside the pack. As for speed in rescue scenarios, the extra 1-2 seconds should not make a difference. If you find the interface fumbly, then practice with it. I don’t see why the internal avy pocket is any worse than the other options out there.

My only gripe about the cirque is that BD used cheap ass fabric, and it doesn’t hold up as well as it should. If there was a cirque made with cordura and xPac/Challenge sailcloth, products, it would be a perfect ski pack.

As for the new hyperlite pack, I’m disappointed. I have an older 70L porter that I use for backpacking, packrafting, and overnight ski trips, and I like it enough. But seeing the new products they are bringing to market makes me think that their company’s priorities have shifted drastically.


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Originally Posted by PinyonJuniper5

As for the new hyperlite pack, I’m disappointed. I have an older 70L porter that I use for backpacking, packrafting, and overnight ski trips, and I like it enough. But seeing the new products they are bringing to market makes me think that their company’s priorities have shifted drastically.

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More hype-beast than hyperlite these days

I was fine with a Cirque for a few days, but a tree branch destroyed it at mellow speeds with little fanfare; WA demands a tougher fabric. Otherwise not bad for day touring.


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