Wine Geekery

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Originally Posted by tgapp

Thanks guys for all the advice. I read it all, but to be honest I'm still a little overwhelmed.

If anyone can tell me "Go to the shitty state run liquor store and spend $50 and find this bottle and drink it and think of _____ (whatever, stone fruit with big tannins and a pleasing mouthfeel) I'll totally do it.

Otherwise, I have a list of words that mean nothing to me. Cahors, Cotes du Rhone, Rioja. Do I just show up and be like "Hey y'all got any of that Rioja?? I want the good stuff." or if I ask for CdR (as the industry insiders know it as), can I say "I'm looking for one of the lower valley CdR, you know, one of the true village wines."

I'm imagining I'll get a lot of blank stares at the Ogden, Utah DABC.

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Are you able to get wine shipped to you in Utah? If so it might be easier to give you suggestions of that sort. Hard to know what sorts of bottles might be in your local store.

For Rioja anything by López de Heredia or La Rioja Alta is going to be very good and typically a fair price.

For Cotes du Rhone -- there isn't a lot of bad Chateauneuf du Pape (though be weery of anything <$40 -- it's just not possible to make good CdP for less due to land/fruit prices). If you want to spend a little less, look for a bottle that says Gigondas.

There must be some DBAC in town that wine folks buy from and has someone who knows that they are doing. If you can find that place the way I would ask is:

"I'm looking for a Gigondas in the $30-50 range" or "Do you have any classic style Riojas for around $40?"

Honestly -- you're gonna have a lot of hits/misses as you discover your palette. You'll have overwhelming bottles for $20 and underwhelming $50 bottles. You may discover you're a Buster and are a true fan of one varietal or production style and start zeroing in. Or you may discover you're like me and you dig a wide variety of stuff from the perfection of Burgundy to weird ass skin-contact wines from Georgia.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Are you able to get wine shipped to you in Utah?

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Utah is a minefield when it comes to wine. Legally, wine cannot be shipped to your home. Wine club bottles have to be bought through a state store which will add an 88%!! markup on the cost plus shipping. I was told you can special order wines through state stores if there is an existing relationship with an importer/distributer but that it is by the case only. So good luck getting anything remotely allocated if you're Joe Mormon on the street.

tgapp, if it's in your budget I would also recommend going to a few restaurants with good glass pour lists and tasting to hone in on a region/varietal you are interested in before going to the store. It helps to know where to find good value but is a wasted exercise if you don't care for the style. Personally, I find young CdR to be too reductive almost across the board but my wife might rave about the same bottle. The flipside is we have some '16 Côte Rôtie in the basement but won't be opening that anytime soon.

We had a great time at Under Current, their BTG as about 3x bigger than what is listed online. Fun selection of French whites and low intervention California winemakers. We were recommended Provisions, Finca, Nomad East, and Pago as well but never made it to them because my wife's boss kept taking us out. Tough deal.

Once you get an idea of what you like, as was recommended above it's good to learn importers. To go along with that are specific reps if they are on the smaller side. I already know that I will be relying on Flora/Fauna in SLC because he reps almost every single importer we regularly buy. He was responsive and helpful when I sent a note. He also made it clear that stores 35 and 41 in SLC are the only ones worth going to.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

That said I think there's some decent values in Oregon pinot noirs by Patricia Green, Broadley (their estate was always a stalwart value), Bergstrom, Willakenzie.
There's a slew of decent Cali pinots, like above, my favs include Rhys, Rivers Marie, Hirsch, Peay, older Kistlers, Littorai, but you're really talking $60+ for those. Less $ but still good include Failla, Siduri, Patz & Hall,

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I fucking love me some Patty Green and Lemelson from the Willamette.

Patz & Hall chardonnay is outstanding as well.

A decent wine bar is also a good way to try. Most have flights of each varietal you can go through. Take notes.


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Originally Posted by Cruiser

In my experience, old white wine is less palatable for relatively novice drinkers than old red wine. Obviously, being moelleux in style will help as it'll have a good bit of residual sugar but I'd caution you against leaving it down there too long

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Probably true...

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In my house we'd plan to open that sort of thing at around 20yo even though it'll last until it's 30+. Fwiw, I've got one lonely bottle of '65 moelleux down in the cellar and can't seem to find an appropriate context in which to open it cuz it'll surely be very very geeky.

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Yup.

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Worth remembering that it's not enough for wine to taste interesting. It also needs to taste delicious.

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Spot on.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

I fucking love me some Patty Green and Lemelson from the Willamette.

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you realize Lemurson went to Reed?

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Patz & Hall chardonnay is outstanding as well.

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super price point.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

you realize Lemurson went to Reed?

super price point.

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Did not! So did that super snarky bartender at the Driftwood Room but I don’t hold that against her either ;)

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Did not! So did that super snarky bartender at the Driftwood Room but I don’t hold that against her either ;)

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well, they did invent a variety of ecstacy @ Reed, she just doesn't know herstory.

just snagged some 83 Climens @$35/375ml

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Originally Posted by ghosthop

Once you get an idea of what you like, as was recommended above it's good to learn importers. To go along with that are specific reps if they are on the smaller side. I already know that I will be relying on Flora/Fauna in SLC because he reps almost every single importer we regularly buy. He was responsive and helpful when I sent a note. He also made it clear that stores 35 and 41 in SLC are the only ones worth going to.

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This right here is the primo beta. Find a good distributor --> find who buys a lot of their wine (best selection and best price typically) --> go to retailer and enjoy.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Attachment 389887

I’m not usually a Sonoma Pinot fan but this was amazing.

Had some 2015 Gandona Cabernet too and that was one of the best Cabs I’ve ever had.

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Williams Selyem doesn't really follow the mold of the rest of the sonoma area offerings, does it. Yum

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

In my experience, old white wine is less palatable for relatively novice drinkers than old red wine. Obviously, being moelleux in style will help as it'll have a good bit of residual sugar but I'd caution you against leaving it down there too long unless you're going to serve to to a bunch of pro cork sniffers cuz the residual sugar may not be enough to engage people after the primary fruit begins to really fade into the background.

In my house we'd plan to open that sort of thing at around 20yo even though it'll last until it's 30+. Fwiw, I've got one lonely bottle of '65 moelleux down in the cellar and can't seem to find an appropriate context in which to open it cuz it'll surely be very very geeky.

Worth remembering that it's not enough for wine to taste interesting. It also needs to taste delicious.

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Thanks. I was thinking around 20 yrs. I'm somewhere between novice and pro cork :)

The Sommelier from Bon Appetit - Andre Mac - has some fun YouTube videos reviewing cheap wines. Worth a watch. He actually finds some winners…

https://youtu.be/jLSHUyzOzWs



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Oldie but a goodie. Plucked from the depths cuz of this thread. Still have 1 lonely bottle each of 03 & 04 for an amusing mini vertical later.
Attachment 390088

I picked up a case $18 Tempranillo Reserva (2015) from Ollauri - I’m going to shove it in my crawl space and forget about it for a few years


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Undead undead undead https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...de09b190f3.jpg

Did a wine pull at a local fundraiser and got the best bottle in the bunch…’15 Justin Isosceles Reserve. Gonna cellar it for a few more years.
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Grape growers in the Walla Walla Valley report wildly varying yields, wildly delicious wines

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...ize=1200%2C798
vineyard workers during pre-dawn harvest season at Seven Hills Vineyard in Milton-Freewater 2018

With wine grape harvest season largely in the rearview mirror, vineyard managers in the Walla Walla Valley are reporting lower yields than normal as a result of poor weather conditions, but they are predicting higher quality wines from the grapes they did harvest.

Every vineyard manager the Union-Bulletin spoke with experienced shorter, earlier harvest seasons, and all are expecting that higher skin-to-juice ratios are going to create better, more flavorful wines.

Growers across the state have broadly shared this experience, said Steve Warnar, president of the Washington State Wine Commission.

“Everyone seems to be super stoked about the quality of this harvest,” Warnar said.

But the impact to yields from earlier frost damage and this summer’s heat dome, which cooked the area with sustained temperatures around 120 degrees in June, varied significantly from vineyard to vineyard.

Wildly varying yields
At Grosgrain Vineyards, north of the state line off Old Milton Highway, frost damage from a cooling event in the spring reduced the amount of clusters on the vine, while the heat dome reduced the size of those clusters, said owner and winemaker Matt Austin in an interview.

Some varieties on their four actively producing acres fared much better than others, such as the cabernet sauvignon and grenache, while their older Italian nebbiolo vines, planted by a previous owner, saw dramatically lower yields, Austin said.

Leased blocks at other vineyards also saw wildly different impacts from the weather, he added: Fruit yields from Les Collines Vineyard, the largest contiguous grower in the Valley, were down about 50%. Conversely, the Spanish albariño grapes Grosgrain purchased from Phillips vineyard had the largest yields ever, Austin said.

Earlier, compressed season
The high heat of the summer shifted the harvest season forward by weeks or as much as a month, depending on the vineyard. At Foundry Vineyards, harvest began a month earlier and was compressed into a month, said winemaker Jay Anderson.

“We basically had all of our fruit in by the end of September, and in some years harvest can stretch to early November,” Anderson wrote in an email. “It was just a little more hectic in the winery.”

Many vineyards across the Valley and state experienced a similarly early and condensed harvest season, according to industry groups.

“High summer temperatures led to an earlier harvest at some sites, while a shift in the weather in mid-September allowed normal hang time at other sites, allowing fruit to ripen while retaining natural acidity during the cooler night temperatures,” wrote a representative from Walla Walla Valley Wine Alliance in an email.

That condensed time frame created a logistical challenge for many, Warnar said.

“For the most part, that was our largest challenge this year,” Warnar said.

Adjusting to a changing climate
The impacts growers are seeing this year can’t be shrugged off as a fluke, said Los Rocosos Vineyards owner Roger Lemstrom.

“We are facing climate change,” Lemstrom said. “I don’t care what your politics are, whether you believe in climate change; these things believe in you. So how do we, as farmers, react and adjust to this?”

Growers need to consider what varieties they grow going forward, as high heat events become more likely and more intense, he said. The grapes that thrive in low water environments and harder climates are going to become more reliable in the future, he said.

“We grow 47 different varieties of grape in this valley, and the ones that are going to survive are the ones that fall into that Mediterranean heat range,” Lemstrom said. “All of these fiddly, beautiful, sauvignon blancs and rieslings, all of these cute little white wines, they’re all in Canada now.”

In the Rocks district near Milton-Freewater, Los Rocosos saw one of the lowest drops in yield of an area vineyard, only pulling around 2% less fruit than expected, Lemstrom said.

In part, he credits laziness and luck with saving his crop.

Vineyards perform mid-season canopy management, trimming leaves and tidying vines for efficient and easy harvest later in the season. Los Rocosos does that work a couple of weeks later than most other vineyards, Lemstrom said.

In June, when a heatwave smothered the region for days, sunburning fruit across the Valley, Lemstrom said the only damage he saw was on the western end of his rows, where the sun was the most intense.

“I’m not some viticultural genius, but I think for the sheer fact that, because I’m either lazy or I just don’t do things the way other people do, I lucked out on that heat dome,” he said.

In the future, growers would do well not to rely on that luck, but instead intentionally plan for heat mitigation, Lemstrom said.

What that looks like may depend on the grower — shade nets might work for a small vineyard like his, but would be prohibitively expensive for many larger growers. Like other industries vulnerable to climate change, wine growers may need to consider that similar heat waves will come more frequently, he said.

But at least for this year, Lemstrom echoed the sentiments of his fellow growers: Whatever the challenges in growing or harvesting, he believes this year’s vintage is shaping up to be a particularly good one.

Picked up a few 375 bottles of Chateau Guiraud Sauternes 1er Cru 2003 on Last Bottle today. Been a long time since I had Sauternes. Sounds like this vintage has a few years left but nearing end.

Also picked up some of this 03 and 07 California port. It was a desert wine day.

https://www.denegoce.com/products/lo...jHlAw95.H4cM6C

Definitely blew my wine budget today.

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Same off Last Bottle^.

(except about 03 Guiraud nearing it's end...)

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Same off Last Bottle^.

(except about 03 Guiraud nearing it's end...)

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I was just going off the drinking window on cellartracker of 2024. What do you think it is?

The really old wines I've had that were gone were like teawater (or gone with spoilage like cardboard or brettanomyces barnyard/beefbroth ).
The 03 sauternes I've had, including Guiraud, are nowhere near that, there's lots of punch left. I'd give that one another 20 years.
Read ct for older vinatges of Guiraud, there's a ton of old ones.

ct can be ok when one gets to read a lot of opinions, but I think that particular drinking window for 03 is wrong.
Parker used to claim stuff like that about pinots and while pinots are more fragile and prone to spoilage or tea, I disagree with that as a general truth.

There's currently some consensus on ct that the 96 Geantet-Pansiot Jeune Rois is gone. I completely disagree about that too.

I'm in the "drink that bastard" camp. 03 was warm so the complaint was that the wines lacked sufficient acidity to age for the long haul. But again it's all about how you like em. And sauternes is pretty durable stuff, as wines go, so the drinking window during which they'll provide maximum pleasure is larger than it is with a lot of the dry stuff.

Ok, ok so the toffee, caramel thing isn't everyones schtick. I like it well enough.
I'm guilty of swill half, stash half.

That's why I still have a few older bottles.

Yea, I know it depends on your tastes too. Some people love wine that others would consider past its prime.

Personally I enjoy wine that is old but not as much as wine that is at what most would consider it’s “peak”.

My in-laws dumped a bunch of stuff that I would have loved to have had. A ton of 80s and 90s cabs and big reds. Even after I showed them prices for that stuff they insisted it was gone and I drinkable. All had been cellared in the grandparents cellar too.


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Originally Posted by neufox47

Picked up half a case of shiners from Last Bottle, 2015 Pinot from the Santa Maria Valley, $16 a bottle shipped. Often shiners have been recorked to protect the identity but not these. Turns out it is Grevino’s Estate Pinot. Wish I’d bought a case or two.


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Just realized I bought a bunch of non shiner Grevino 2014 Pinot from Garagiste. Now I have a mini vertical.

are we all Garagiste faithful in this thread? my outback was packed to the gills from my last pickup a couple weeks ago.

I get a few from garagiste.
Am having a weird time with WineBid where a 2014 was substituted for a 2013 with no notice. On follow up, two explanations had different drifts.

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Originally Posted by chaka

are we all Garagiste faithful in this thread? my outback was packed to the gills from my last pickup a couple weeks ago.

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Garagiste, Last Bottle, De Négoce and occasionally WTSO are my main purchases then some memberships local and Sonoma. De Négoce consistently has the best QP$ to my palette.

I’ll add that I’ve been blown away by some of the Cabernet, Zin, barbera, Syrah and petite Syrah the foothills of the Sierra have been producing lately . Psyched for the Sangiovese garagiste just offered from the Sierras.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

I’ll add that I’ve been blown away by some of the Cabernet, Zin, barbera, Syrah and petite Syrah the foothills of the Sierra have been producing lately . Psyched for the Sangiovese garagiste just offered from the Sierras.

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I went for a couple bottles of the Sangiovese yesterday. Sounded legit and I was intrigued.

We just play with garagiste. Works for our meager budget and is manageable for us, with three Pugetopolis relatives baited into ordering and willing to do our pickup and occasional CO delivery

Recommend me a nice bottle of wine to go with my ham on Thanksgiving day.

.....I'm thinking of either a nice white Bordeaux like Chateau Carbonnieux or a not SO bold red like Chateuneuf de Pape.

If it were me it'd be a fatty high acid white. Probably riesling or chinin blanc maybe marsanne or vermentino. I guess it depends if your ham is sweet, salty, or spicy. I'm imaging a glazed roast of some sort.

If you are set in red, CdP or a different grenache could work. Could also look at any number of cool climate reds- lorie cab franc, cru Beaujolais, blaufrankish if you can find it. Most California pinot could work too as well as GSM blends and zins with enough acid (not the 15% abv) .

I think for ham acid and fruit are your friends. Tannins aren't really helping out like they are with red meat.

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Hunt down good quality white cotes du rhone for a fun ham white. Beaucastel blanc is always good. Or church it up a bit more and get some condrieu from guigal or similar.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Recommend me a nice bottle of wine to go with my ham on Thanksgiving day.

.....I'm thinking of either a nice white Bordeaux like Chateau Carbonnieux or a not SO bold red like Chateuneuf de Pape.

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Chateuneuf de Pape or a Grenache is the direction I’d go. Since you asked for a bottle https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/20...est-grenaches/

found a handful of these in the basement today. Think they were some of the first Burgs I procured. I started late. And maybe overpaid at the time.

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Originally Posted by oftpiste

found a handful of these in the basement today. Think they were some of the first Burgs I procured. I started late. And maybe overpaid at the time.

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Looks great.

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$42?
I don't think that was unusual for lieu dit when available in 2001 or so.

I'm always available for evaluation of course.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Recommend me a nice bottle of wine to go with my ham on Thanksgiving day.

.....I'm thinking of either a nice white Bordeaux like Chateau Carbonnieux or a not SO bold red like Chateuneuf de Pape.

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If you prefer white, I like the chenin blanc (specifically a vouvray) recommendation.


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Agree in that these are the 4 on my short list. Not really any to write home about, but all tasty.

Attachment 392826

I would be holding the 2016 for a future event. Great vintage with legs to go a long time. Personally I'd pop the Vouvray and the 2011 Guigal.

More Sauternes from Last Bottle today…


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