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If you are rowing 45 strokes/minute on a Concept II, your technique is almost certainly a disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by mud
In my racing career, the only time we hit 45 spm was for maybe 10-20 half strokes coming off the stake boat at the start of the race.
Probably is a disaster, I'm only using it to get my heart rate between 170 & 150, not make varsity crew.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Suit
I can average 2K at 3 resistance in between 7 and 8 minutes and not feel too worked, I figured if I bumped up my average 30 spm to 40 or better it was improvement.
What are some good baselines to aim for?
Total jong here.
^^ Yup.
When I rowed varsity we'd have days on the Ergs when we'd be told to stay at 18-20 for practice. We'd have to force ourselves to slow down the recovery to a crawl. In a race, we'd spike to maybe 45 sqm for the initial quarter & half strokes off the start, and settle into anywhere from 28-32 for the 2K. We never had the Erg resistance any higher than 3, ever.
Wow, I miss varsity rowing.
22 - 25 spm is what I aim for.Quote:
Originally Posted by mud
Try to burst off with your legs harder than you are.
At 45+ spm, you are basically just going as fast as you can with no real resistance.
Let the wheel(water) slow down a little, bury your ass closer to your feet, and really burst out of the gate, then pull with your back, then arms last. Repeat at 22-25 BPM. Now, the only way to improve your speeds is to improve your burst and strength. You'll feel it.
If that doesn't get your heart rate over 150, you need to get better technique, and apply to Ivy League schools ASAP.
Slow down, make more power, do some research/get some training on proper form.Quote:
Originally Posted by mud
I'll switch over to wattage and report back.
Someone had a laptop hook up one day checking stats but I didn't bother to check what program the Concept GSA was running.
Mud, here's the rankings calculator: http://log.concept2.com/rankings.asp
Plug in your age/distance (or time)/weight class (165 is the heavyweight/lightweight divide) and see where you fit in and where the best people finish. Use the high/low to narrow in on a specific age if you want. I have no idea about you, but for example I just plugged in a 30-year-old lightweight and the fastest time for 2000 meters in 2012 was 6:24.
Here's the pace calculator: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rower...ace-calculator use it to figure out how fast you have to maintain in order to finish in a certain time or to find the pace you rowed if you rowed a certain amount if time (like 30 or 60 minutes for example).
the concept2 forum is very boring but a good place to find tips and get answers to specific questions: http://www.c2forum.com
edit: clarimification
^^ damn that place has it all, thanks!
I had not seen that Dynamic model at all. Pretty interesting looking. Anybody try it out? How does it compare to being on the water?
I posted it in the crossfit thread but anyway...
Rowed a 9:14 2500m a few weeks ago in a WOD. Damn near killed me. Took me a half hour to get normal enough to drive home. I was happy to beat a lot of bigger guys given that I'm 5'8" 160#. We have a former high level rower giving tips which was great.
Fast hands, then hips, then knees... drive!
She also has us set the foot straps low so that your knees don't limit the catch.
The concern is that you are much more likely to hurt yourself trying to row at an elevated pace. Your heart rate will elevate plenty rowing at 20-25 spm once you learn good technique, so focus on technique first.Quote:
Originally Posted by mud
In some ways dialing down the resistance on the erg is similar to the feeling you on the water as your boat gets faster. Each stroke is quicker and more explosive, but you are still putting out as much power.
EH?Quote:
Originally Posted by hafilax
Pretty much the opposite - tight core & hips for strong initial push via the knees/quads keeping arms fully extended, then strong lower back and upper back/lat pull, then very last pull hands fast into belly/plexus region. Then, slow hands back out to fully extended, and slowly climb the rails back up until knees fully bent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZUK1EIQ9r0Quote:
Originally Posted by mud
I was describing the recovery at the end of the pull. That's what she was coaching us on. Bar hits the chest then release the hands, bend the hips, once the hands are past the knees bend them, reach far. This was for keeping a stroke rate pushing 30 s/m.Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnHard
Handle shouldn't hit the chest, it's a waste of 2" or so of connection. The ideal stroke on an erg or in a boat starts at the catch with the heels coming down using only the quads, then as soon as the heels are down you engage the hamstrings to keep your body angle (think box squat) then a deliberate and dynamic snapping open of the hips (think dead lift) and then drawing the hands in as a way to keep connection and keep pressure on the face of the blade. As soon as weight comes off the foot boards, the stroke is done, and the hands come out at the same speed as they came in, you establish body angle by rolling your hips back and pointing your tail bone towards the bow of the boat, and then your knees come up to the catch again. At the catch the blade(s) should be in the water while you're still rolling forward and there should never be a pause at the front end. Also any extra body angle between body over and the catch will cause your blade to sky before entry and it's a waste. You don't want to ever thing about reaching, more rotating the shoulders and compressing the hips.Quote:
Originally Posted by hafilax
As far as erging, our challenge for the fall was to log 500,000 meters of extra aerobic work between September and mid-November. It was tough to do combined with 3-4 hours of practice a day but a good feeling to be done
So, when you say the catch should be when your still rolling forward, does that mean your hands are already beginning to pull before your ass is rolling backward?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth
Nope, that would imply that you're breaking the arms early which essentially removes your legs and lats from the equation. It's all about connection between your big muscles and the handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
What I mean by catching while rolling forward applies only to rowing on the water and it's just a blade placement strategy. The goal is to have your blade fully in the water when you're at full compression since then you can apply pressure to the face of the blade for as long as possible. If you come all the way up to the catch and then place the blade, you're going to use either your legs, arms, or body to get the blade in the water since it's the only way to keep up with the speed of the boat, and then you find yourself starting to apply pressure when your legs are already halfway down. That's why when you watch good rowing you see backsplash at the catch. You want to think of your hands as coming up basically right after you square your blade over your toes, since that way you can have the blade in the water and locked on while still having all of your legs, body angle, and straight arms. That allows you to lever the boat as much as possible
You should have seen the guy wearing a backpack.Quote:
Originally Posted by sf
Anyone using the WaterRower? (http://www.waterrower.com/)
Picked one up off of craigslist, thing is an absolute beauty of a machine, really well built and purdy to look at.
Anyway, I feel like my times are faster than what would be achieved on a Concept 2, most likely because the only way to change resistance is to add or remove water from the tank, which is not exactly something I'm going to do each workout.
I used to row at a club-level way back when, so I was never competitive, but I did at least learn proper technique. I've been ending my workouts (4000-6000m) with a quick break, and then a 1000m sprint.
My last two times for the 1000m sprint were:
3:07.9, 38spm
3:09.4, 36.5spm
So again, the SPM seems really high, but I'm wondering if the WaterRowers are biased toward faster SPM by design? Maybe I should add more water to the thing?
That thing could turn into a really hard workout if you left it outside in the winter.
Hah, maybe I ought to throw some ice cubes in the tank for a tougher workout. Or better yet, fill the thing up with margarita mix for my next house party...Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Question for C2 rowers:
I started rowing on a Model C a little while back - 5k per day - and I'm thinking about upgrading the performance monitor (it came with an old PM2 that just shows the basics and stores nothing). Anyone have comments on the PM3 vs. PM4? I'd like to be able to store workouts and track heart rates...
I usually just take a picture with my camera phone to keep track of times
They do have these log cards to track stuff on a PM2.
I don't think they track heartrates tho.
http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rower...sories/logcard
PM3 has the log card to store times/dates/splits but nothing for heart rate that I've ever noticed (but I don't have a pulse monitor, so that may be why).
I put an ad up on craigslist 2 weeks ago. Passed on one for 700, but picked up a D, with PM4 today for 600. Barely used, HR monitor and all. There was 300k on the log card.
Just takes patience.
BIke is in storage for the winter, so I will shoot for 3x a week, plus a couple short runs. Maybe 20k a week?
Obviously pace is key but 20K a week is a good amount of work. Lately I've been doing timed workouts and using watts instead of meters and I've been enjoying it (you can still see how many meters you rowed by switching the display afterwards). Maybe it's just because it's a change of pace but for some reason it seems easier to just block out that piece of time and go for it rather than set a distance and do that. Probably the novelty will wear off but it's been a few weeks and it hasn't yet, you might try it. I like the display that has the bar chart of watt output, you can really see instantly when you're starting to dog it, it's good motivation for me. My mind tends to wander mid-row and it when it does I slack, the visual reminder brings me back to what I'm doing
edit: mine is a PM3, not sure you have that display on the PM4 but there must be something similar (and a little bit better!)
I picked up rowing (on the water) about 4 months ago after moving by a river with a very active rowing scene. The erg bores me to tears, my 2k (free rate) is 7:50 (1:57/500), we have 15 year old girls pulling 7:20ish – it is pretty humbling. You can get away with murder on the erg: if you rush the slide, don't get your blades in before stopping the slide, are not clean getting them out or wobble the boat you get nowhere fast. Some really big fat guys can also get good erg scores but in the boat you have to haul that weight along. One good thing to do for erg work is cap the rate and work in different bands:
UT2 = training at upto 55% of your maximum heart rate
UT1 = training at upto 75% of your maximum heart rate
AT = 75 - 85 % of your maximum heart rate (lactate training)
TR = Flat out 85% to maximum
Going in I had no idea how hard rowing (well, sculling in my case) actually was. Apparently I learned quickly and my balance seems to be extremely good compared to others that started at the same time which I am sure is from learning skiing as a kid. Some people never really seem to be able to sit the boat properly and after 2 years at it and still wobbling unable to keep the blades of the water. Keeping a boat balanced and have the boat move well requires quite a lot of skill and it is a sport that you really need good coaching for.
It is a fun with a good amount of variation from singles to crew boats, sculling and sweep. Best of all it is cheap as anything since almost no one owns their own boats. Definitely a sport for big people if you want to compete though.
i think he just called you fat, ice.
cool story ( really)Quote:
Originally Posted by narc
novice sculler/erger. Agreed they are two really different ducks.
Good on you on keeping a balanced boat. I struggle with this, but don't really have a lot of hrs on water at this point.
I know, right? And I thought I looked good in this dress.Quote:
Originally Posted by shroom
I think it is something that slowly improves as your body figures it out. Other than getting the hands away/body over quickly to get weight onto the feet it just seems to be time on the water. I find one of the biggest things that helps is to try and relax which is sometimes hard when you also have to concentrate on sitting up tall.Quote:
Originally Posted by mobygrape
Glad you're enjoying the boat, guy. I've been rowing probably longer than you've been alive and I still love it. But when you disparage the erg remember that it does not lie. If you are slow you are not getting the work done. Period. Kinda sucks for you that young girls and fat guys can do more work than you but there it is.
Anyone still rowing? Just bought a water rower and tried it out for the first time tonight. Did 15 minutes trying to keep a nice, steady pace (was staying between 28-30 spm). I'm sure these stats aren't real impressive, but it's a baseline for me to improve on.
Attachment 311973
Anyone still rowing? Just bought a water rower and tried it out for the first time tonight. Did 15 minutes trying to keep a nice, steady pace (was staying between 28-30 spm). I'm sure these stats aren't real impressive, but it's a baseline for me to improve on.
Attachment 311973
Yeah I'm still on it pretty much every day. I don't go that far but I go pretty hard. I cut down the amount of time on the rower to spend more time with free weights (mostly dumbbells) but rowing's definitely still an important part of my fitness routine.
No idea how the numbers translate from Concept2 to your machine AD (maybe they're equal, I dunno) but 3500 meters at a 2:07 pace is moving right along on my machine for sure
I did a couple searches to see if there were any comparisons and at least one person said they could go faster on a water rower (although not my brand). I think I'll try a 2k for time sometime in the next week. Also need to make sure my technique is good before I get any ingrained bad habits. I'm in good aerobic shape due to swimming, but obviously rowing is a different animal. It's easy to lay off the legs in swimming, not so much in rowing!
Mine makes a wonderful hanging rack for my bathrobes. Yes, it should be in use.
Bought an old used waterrower this summer. Needed a new tank and a few other things to get it going. Just started rowing and love it, but man I'm glad a friend hooked me up with a laptop stand to watch something as the time passes. I have a tweaked glute right now, and it's been snowing, so it's likely 4 weeks until I put in more than 15 minutes of reps on the thing.
Dibs if you gear swap it.Quote:
Originally Posted by oftpiste
"One Million Dollars!"Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit