One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?
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One more question - do you guys know of any maps/documentation of the slide paths in lcc?
UDOT has one published somewhere on the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRa
SheRa, I'm sure some mags on here have better ones, but this is a start for you.
http://www.avalanchemapping.org/IMAGES/litcotweb.pdf
Rog vs. ECtreeskier: one I've been waiting for.
Meltfreeze/windcrust to 11K at 5 pm yesterday. Plus, a lot of this:
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/003...jpg?1288056528
It is worth noting for those of you not concerned with what began as a slim base, the measured total at the Collins stake is down to 22 inches. That is not much snow.
Yup,...I always thought 'Surface Hoar' was not a problem,...:rolleyes:UNTIL,... It becomesQuote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
"DEPTH HOAR"...Crap
looks like we may have dodged a bullet, the vast majority of this snow should melt in the next week or soQuote:
Originally Posted by Christopher3000
I'm certainly not an expert on this stuff, but my understanding is that buried surface hoar is generally referred to as just that - buried surface hoar (or hoar layers). Depth hoar is what forms due to vapor transport processes/temperature gradients in the snowpack....Quote:
Originally Posted by wildskizer
(basically if it formed on the surface, it's surface hoar, if it formed inside the snowpack, it's depth hoar)
pics from day 2 at alta - did laps off wildcat ridge all day then came down west of rock gully - the pow was heavier but still fantastic
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?i=htt....jpg&w=640&h=0
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?i=htt....jpg&w=640&h=0
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?i=htt....jpg&w=640&h=0
slaag you still want those fatypus's? they're haggard but yours if you think you can figure out how to mount them!
hell ya! i can mount anything! send them to
Andrew Hardy
8185 Oak Creek Dr
Cottonwood Heights
ut 84093
i am living in a garage and don't have mailbox privileges.
thanks dude. what did you do to your pelvis? will you be here this winter?
i don't need to mail them haha i live on foothill just north of 80. i'll let you know next time i'm headed down (ski season should start for me in 2 weeks or so). pelvis was "minor" setback, just a little mtb accident but i'll be good to shred.
i can ride my bike over if you like
let me know when, i work from home so i'm around a lot. foothill place apts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaag Master
you'll find some cool stuff at all elevations/aspects all season long. visit them all. a good place to start would be the twin lakes pass area, north facing patsy, s/sw/w facing east emma, and east facing off of pass. with very little walking you'll see/poke at a bunch of different snow types and see very quickly how the snow changes in a very short distance. plus you get some fun laps in and around there as well. close to the bar. some days after doing a white/pink/red pine tour, i'd drive up past the ski hill and crooze up to the pass for sunset and farm any of north facing patsy that was left untracked. easy croozer back down the road at tours end.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRa
yer gonna love it.
rog
I think I still have that PDF. I'll post it when I find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRa
I worked with Drew Hardesty at the Utah Avalanche Center to produce avalanche maps of all the major drainages in the Cottonwoods. The maps show the most frequent slide paths, give detailed information about the topography and other characteristics, and give an overall rating for the area:
Simple: i.e. Mill D
Challenging: i.e. Flagstaff
Complex: i.e. Argenta
Unfortunately the cheif avalanche officers in Montana said we couldn't release the "Challenging" and "Complex" maps to the public for liability reasons. They also shot down our idea of creating a dynamic map for the website that would give hazard ratings to specific areas for a given day.
Last time I checked with Drew he said the "Simple" maps of areas such as Mill D and Main Porter Fork will be released but not sure when. We were thinking of distributing them to places like REI. The idea is to let the public know where they can be safe in the backcountry regardless of the conditions.
This guy has some nice maps.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRa
I think he's on the board, but don't remember his username.
Both lcc and bcc maps are available.
http://www.avalanchemapping.org/Avatlas.htm
Very nice, thank you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
I need to find one face to dig on over the season, kinda got an idea in my mind already since it isn't too far up grizzley gulch. Brent if you're reading this I mean up where we were jumping off that one rock all afternoon last year. Northish facing.
avalanchemapping.org is so cool! The names of the paths are especially helpful. Now I want to associate those names with trigger conditions/frequency. Maybe something like snowy torrents to read descriptions of slides. Around here we have certain paths that might slide like clockwork almost every cycle and some that are hundred year storm slides. Some slides only run wet in the spring while some are midwinter slabs, etc...
avmapperQuote:
Originally Posted by hoarhey
( This is not correct. Surface hoar formation is not linked to any particular snow climate, rather, surface hoar formation is linked to specific meteorological conditions. )Quote:
surface hoar's primarily a maritime issue, that's why last year was so anomalous. usually when it's clear and calm here it's so dry that there's not enough moisture in the air to form surface hoar, while it's obviously abundant in coastal ranges. correct me if i'm wrong but that's my understanding.
( This is not correct. The temperature gradient required for surface hoar formation is created when the snow sheds heat through longwave radiation loss. Humid air is the source of moisture for surface hoar, not liquid in the existing snow cover. )Quote:
Surface hoar forms when there is a temperture gradient between the snow and the air. Snow warms in the sun during the day, gets moist, it get cold and clear and then that moisture moves to the surface to create the hoar frost. In other words, Utah is a great climate for surface hoar, you see it forms during most periods of high pressure.
( This is correct. )Quote:
I'm certainly not an expert on this stuff, but my understanding is that buried surface hoar is generally referred to as just that - buried surface hoar (or hoar layers). Depth hoar is what forms due to vapor transport processes/temperature gradients in the snowpack....
( This is partially correct, but what you're really talking about is direct-action avalanches that form in surface snow, and delayed-action avalanches which form deeper in the snowpack. You can find some of each in most climates. For powder days in Utah, you have to worry about both types of avalanches. Both will kill you with relative ease. )Quote:
Ok, just to clear things up The most common types of avalanche instability-Martime Snowpack- new snow instability Continental Snowpack- persistent weak layer(suface/hoar frost, facets etc.) The Wasatch is usually somewhere in the middle of these two depending on the year.Lest you continue to spread your ignorance, take an avalanche class, before you get yourself or someone else killed in the backcountry.
You don't have to worry too much about the technical details of surface haor formation or snow climate. The UAC forecast always has lots of good info about what to think about before you go skiing.
Ok here is one of the maps we designed
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...8/avy2-001.jpg
We also made these with aerial photos for the base.
(for some reason the north arrow gets changed to a weird +- symbol when I convert these to jpg so sorry about that)
An overview of all the routes we made maps for
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...iewdem-001.jpg
Above 9,800, moderate density snow still remains on N-NE aspects. Some wet activity on typical aspects.
http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?w=800...ap_730X550.jpg
form!
rog
Also look for Alpentech maps at your local backcountry shop, they show avalanche path information:Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRa
http://www.alpentech.net/cgi-bin/alp...chCatalog.html
I was at that meeting/discussion at Wild Rose last year. I recall one of the issues being that giving out maps of "safe zones" to go to during high danger conditions was not necessarily a good idea. I tend to agree. What did the UAC end up deciding? Never saw those maps on the site last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark H
much of the pow is gone but conditions at alta - east greely area - today were fine. some rollers later in the day.
slaag- hit me up when you want to grab those boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaag Master
today would work - either before or after Altan and i ski alta
Is there a still a lot of snow up there? Can we hope it melts off or expect it to cause avvy problems down the road? The mtn cams make it look like theres a lot of snow up there still- even s. facing.
needs to melt or we're not looking good for early season - again.
all of our recent skiing has been at alta. conditions are getting dangerous on most aspects other than north faces or groomers. big gaps are opening over underlying rock. rollers were a real danger this afternoon. Altan hit a dead roller late in the day, close to 6 pm, and pulled his calf. much of this current snow will be greatly reduced before the next possible storm. from here on out we are going to stick to groomers or protected north faces.
I was wondering if surface hoar/facets will form under these conditions. On the non-north faces, I figure the sun is probably keeping the surface wet, with poor nighttime refreezes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ectreeskier11
But, it also looks like the lowest low at 10k' from now until the weekend (when it starts snowing again) is about 30 degrees. I've also always been told that the ground temp averages somewhere around freezing.
I've always understood that greater temp gradients cause surface hoar formation. We have a thin snowpack, so it obviously won't take much difference in ground/temp versus air temp to cause a significant gradient. However, here we're only looking at a difference between ground and air temps of about 2 degrees (maybe more higher up, but still, this isn't the 30 degree difference you have in December when it's getting to be 0 at night). So shouldn't the gradient be low, and the facets slow to form?
Yes, I could go up and look. But I'm trying to get shit squared away so I can ski in a few weeks when the snow starts to fly.
surface hoar- no, absolutely not. as has been proven time and time again, i'm not the resident avalanche expert. but, when you have a layer of snow that falls on the ground and is being warmed from both sides, and you have the crystals melting and forming sugary stuff, which is essentially what depth hoar is, and then you get a bunch of new snow falling over it, you've got a shitty weak layer that can propagate slides to the ground pretty damn easily. if it all melts, than we're back to square one and don't have to worry about it.
^^^nice..........
figure Id make my first post here, great pics guys, learning a lot from just reading the forums. Moving down to SLC in a few weeks, can't wait :cool:
I think we have another shot of snow early next week....
Has Alta shut down uphill traffic yet?
I dont think so..they usually wait until like the week before opening, least thats how its been the last couple years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Its also usually posted on their main page of the website. I just looked and didnt see anything yet.
If you go...please update here so I know whats what...thanks TH.
There is a pretty solid model consensus that a robust cold front and embedded upper level short waves pops through in the late monday - wednesday time period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
Lionel im just an armchair weather guy...you however are the MAN....
PM me your blog or is it just on FIS???
Thanks for all the weather reports....SUITE!!!!!!
:wink:
uphill traffic at alta is in full gear.