Enron founder Kenneth Lay dies at 64

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Originally Posted by Tippster

My point is that it's just not that easy to "leave and find a different job." One day you'll understand.

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And the stock should be trading at 80 again, the govt should tender an offer to all the ex employee's. PLease, give me a break. Shed a tear for those companies whose stock went to zero without breaking the law. I am sure they could have kept those jobs without maxing out the profit plan. And I am talking about the Enron employee's, not the aquisitions they made.


And you would be surprised what i do know Tip.

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I guess the real reason I do not feel to sorry for them, is because i made markets in Enron options and saw most of the people in my pit go belly up selling puts and collars to all the insiders before it collapsed. As a part of they're responsibility as mm's those people had to sell them, the employee's could have left, or not bought so much stock (or puts). Will those millions be returned? No, and I dont expect my losses, even though it was a result of a massive fraud, to be returned. Life sucks that way.

I see. All the Enron Employees who lost their life savings were people in high-risk jobs (trading) and were young, single, and educated in how to best manage ones retirement portfolio, which they considered while sitting on a chairlift at some mountain resort pursuing a sport whose gear costs more than the average Washer/Dryer. Certainly none were blue collar folks with families to house and feed, schools to pay for, and car payments to worry about. Then maybe, MAYBE, they could go on a trip once a year to someplace cheap and call it a vacation.

It all makes sense to me now. Those fucking morons.

All I am saying wise guy, is that there are better candidates for your sympathy. Lets put some people on TV who did'nt actually work at the house of Fraud. There are plenty of them. This reacurring, "I made a million in stock, then lost it working at Enron" is an insult to the people who lost they're ass without actually working there. They are the last to recieve my sympathy,but that does not mean some of them do not qualify for any.

If your stockbroker ran off with all his clients money (like yours), would we put his secretary on tv for being without a job now? No, i think there would be better candidates, and you might, just might not cry very hard for her. Thats just a guess though.

And my kids get the new gear now. I am still in Marmot circa 1999.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

All I am saying wise guy, is that there are better candidates for your sympathy

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brokers like you whining? You guys are so much more important than the little people :rolleyes:

Your an asshole, but we already knew that, and you obviously know very little about what I did, or how I was effected by this scandal. You yourself posted a good article detailing how elaborate and widespread the fraud was within the company. I worked with good people, with families, who lost a lifetime worth of work to that fraud. They had no chance at all compared to the people within those walls.

Keep whining about those Enron employee's, its hilarious. Many, many more of them belong behond bars. :fuckyou:

ps I am not a broker, get a clue.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

They had no chance at all compared to the people within those walls.

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They couldn't diversify risk either? Boo fucking hoo - somebody else got burned trying to make a buck. In any fraud or crime their are plenty of 'victims' - picking and choosing which ones had it worse is stupid.

I've always thought of the whole stockmarket as a fraud, just another way to bilk the poor, ignorant masses of their money.

and now for the edit:
If you really wanted to understand where this type of remark might come from, you can use google to search a zillion supportive articles.

But, as usual, none of the opponenets of such a remark would want to actually try that. It might cause them to work or think.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

I worked with good people, with families, who lost a lifetime worth of work to that fraud. They had no chance at all compared to the people within those walls.

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So, like the people that put all their savings in Enron stock, some people hedged their whole career on the success of Enron? I don't understand why we're supposed to feel worse for someone like this than someone that worked at Enron and wasn't part of the scandal and didn't know about it. How did they have more control of how the scandal affected them vs. the people you're talking about?

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Originally Posted by cj001f

They couldn't diversify risk either?

In any fraud or crime their are plenty of 'victims' - picking and choosing which ones had it worse is stupid.

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No, they could not. They were the primary market makers in Enron options. Puts and Calls. If they refused to make a market in those puts, when everyone and their mother came to buy them, then an exchange official would assign the trade to them. The result was they (we) became net short millions of puts. Which gives people the right to sell of stock at a specific price at a specified time. The puts dont materliaze out of thin air, we sold them (shorted them). A risky job I admit, but in a fraud scandal, we were the last to know, and nobody halted trading in that pig until it had dropped 50 dollars. Sometimes 10 bucks a clip over night. Pinch me, I should have been a doctor.

Needless to say, all those people knew something non public and many of them had tips from within the company, big mouths if not insiders or wall street whores.

I am not whinning, but dont expect me to feel sorry for all those people that helped to create that nightmare.

The victims are fucking clear, if you want to guess which employee's talked too much, or posed as traders, or stacked those million dolar empty server boxes to show off, you go ahead, but i dont care for it.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I've always thought of the whole stockmarket as a fraud, just another way to bilk the poor, ignorant masses of their money.

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Talk to the Dutch.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I've always thought of the whole stockmarket as a fraud, just another way to bilk the poor, ignorant masses of their money.

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curious, why do you say that?

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Talk to the Dutch.

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About tulips. Or Americans about trains or so called tech stocks.

Relax. There are those who understand your point(s). Try to understand theirs.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I've always thought of the whole stockmarket as a fraud, just another way to bilk the poor, ignorant masses of their money.

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that's the lottery.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I've always thought of the whole stockmarket as a fraud, just another way to bilk the poor, ignorant masses of their money.

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Tell that to Mark Cuban. Or even Bill Gates. Some people just get lucky. And over time, it's still the best investment. But, yeah, I agree, it's a fucking den of snakes.

I'd like to have a buck for every time an insider tip is passed over martinis this weekend out at the Hamptons or Nantucket.

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Originally Posted by cj001f

They couldn't diversify risk either? Boo fucking hoo - somebody else got burned trying to make a buck. In any fraud or crime their are plenty of 'victims' - picking and choosing which ones had it worse is stupid.

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After explaining my personal experience to you, I have decided that if you still do not comprehend what it is I tried explaining to you, then this is clearly above your head, but if you did understand then you must be void of any eithics and or morals.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I've always thought of the whole stockmarket as a fraud, just another way to bilk the poor, ignorant masses of their money.

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Amen. And its getting worse.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Amen. And its getting worse.

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Popular delusions and the Madness of Crowds

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Amen. And its getting worse.

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If you guys have somewhere better to put your money by all means fill us in on the secret......

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Originally Posted by CUBUCK

If you guys have somewhere better to put your money by all means fill us in on the secret......

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REITs, income paying instruments, some beaten down stocks at the present but these are "boring" non-sexy investments and TGR is hardly the place to debate investment philosophies.

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Originally Posted by cj001f

Extraordinary Popular delusions and the Madness of Crowds

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Fooled by Randomness - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

REITs, income paying instruments, some beaten down stocks at the present but these are "boring" non-sexy investments and TGR is hardly the place to debate investment philosophies.

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Sorry, with your view of the market as a fraud I would have guessed your investments would have been elsewhere. I guess its still the best place to put your money.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

REITs, income paying instruments, some beaten down stocks at the present but these are "boring" non-sexy investments and TGR is hardly the place to debate investment philosophies.

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aren't these all listed on an exchange?

This is going nowhere

Stockmarkets are a scam.

Lay hopefully rots in hell.

You're nitpicking with a lawyer on a skiing relating messageboard.

Just curious if you can back up your scam statement thats all? What that has to do with you being a lawyer I'm not sure?

Enron was much more than a company of suits. Ask the linesmen if they knew what was coming. Ask the mail clerks, ask the drivers, ask any and all of the hourly wage folks. They are the tragedy, not the suits and suit-wannabes Cono portrays as comprising all of Enron.

Boeing is more than a group of Aerospace Engineers, even if they get all the "credit."