To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

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Originally Posted by mcski

Dude you are so disingenuous the circular logic is giving me whiplash. You ignore countless attempts to get you to answer the question then revert to some other strawman or red herring. You don’t have a privacy argument so now you’re about about protecting the poor. Gtfo w your bs, your thrunting is borderline troll

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Once again sucky reading comprehension. Go back and read idiot. I started my argument on the premise of low income and rural. How quickly we forget when we see buzz words like "freedom" and "rights" that enrage us and take us of track.

For the record, your opinion on me? Doesn't mean fuck all to ME.

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Originally Posted by mcski

Dude you are so disingenuous the circular logic is giving me whiplash. You ignore countless attempts to get you to answer the question then revert to some other strawman or red herring. You don’t have a privacy argument so now you’re about about protecting the poor. Gtfo w your bs, your thrunting is borderline troll

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Even if you think it "strawman" you don't talk about the actual issue I bring up. Wanna know why? Cause it's real, you dont know how to fix it, and it fucking scares you.

Whether I have personal reasons to no want a vax ID, doesn't mean I don't see and understand there are other much more real reasons a vax ID is a bad idea. You know you can have multiple reasons for something right?

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Many up until about 2004. Then anyone in those states that had one held it for years. I corrected myself. It did used to be there in many states, but no longer allowed. A DL# is a pretty identifying piece of info.

And for the record I ain't been carded in a bar or for booze in 20 years.

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I got carded in 04 at a film premiere in Vegas and I didnt look a day over 40,

I duno what they were looking for but they were carding everyone

I'm resigned to the nearly certain fact that this disease is now endemic and isn't going away anytime soon. I'll be willing to pick up a booster shot here in a few months when it comes around, although some of the discussion I've read on here has me thinking I might delay a bit longer than the 6 month window.

In thinking about the eradication of polio, I'm inclined to think it was a decades-long effort that took finding the right combination of vaccines, treatment, and diagnosis to stamp it out. I suppose it is wishful thinking to believe our society could tackle this disease and get rid of it in such a short timeframe. Instead, it appears we are traveling the typical path to addressing diseases within societies. That is, it comes, people deal with it, and slowly over time, our treatments and vaccines can make it fade into the background.

With that in mind, has there been any reasoned speculation lately on mutation paths that make Covid less dangerous overall while still remaining virulent? Delta is awful, but is there a potential expected offramp somewhere that gets this thing down to chickenpox danger levels?

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Even if you think it "strawman" you don't talk about the actual issue I bring up. Wanna know why? Cause it's real, you dont know how to fix it, and it fucking scares you.

Whether I have personal reasons to no want a vax ID, doesn't mean I don't see and understand there are other much more real reasons a vax ID is a bad idea. You know you can have multiple reasons for something right?

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How'd you get that name, "King of the tilt"? Cuz' you're kind of on one. Look back over the past 24 hours on this thread and all your posts. Maybe go outside and get some fresh air?

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Originally Posted by altasnob

I would be incredibly simple. Just like the health care mandate that required employers and insurance companies to issue a form to the IRS proving you had health insurance, each states' department of health could issue a form to the IRS proving the person is vaxed, and face a fine if not. And again, there is Supreme Court precedent for this and the law would not go into effect unless the current Supreme Court ruled it was constitutional. So there would be no legal argument against it. Of course, such a law will never get passed. So it is all just theoretical.

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So, an ID, issued by the state’s dept of health.


You just dont want any private enforcement if vaccines, in effect what you’re saying.

So no right of businesses to run their businesses as they like?



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Progress is being made :fmicon:

Attachment 384172

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Interesting you keep ignoring the very classes of people I'm discussing here. Low income, rural, and homeless. It's a fact the majority of these groups are minorities. Do you argue that they aren't? The CDC data is clear on those same groups having lower vax rates. Do you disagree with that statement? The ACLU has big issues and will likely fight any type of vax ID. Do you argue this is not the case?

I think things a lot of people think. Do you agree with everythng and every decision your chosen leaders make? I don't. Do you blanketly agree with everything your chosen leaders believe? I dont. Do I agree with many across the political spectrum? 100% you point about TX douche is mute. Never even heard to idiot talk. But if I have some like belief I am instantly a trumptard or right wing nut. You can't care about your freedoms if you aren't right?

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I'll just point out that you are predominantly concerned with low income, rural and poor people. This group of people, i.e., that fit into each of those buckets simultaneously, is 70%-80% white non-Hispanic. What people are saying to you is that a vax mandate to enter businesses would encourage people to get vaccinated.

What are your ideas to improve vaccination rates for this group of people you claim concern over?

Attachment 384173

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

I'll just point out that you are predominantly concerned with low income, rural and poor people. This group of people, i.e., that fit into each of those buckets simultaneously, is 70%-80% white non-Hispanic. What people are saying to you is that a vax mandate to enter businesses would encourage people to get vaccinated.

What are your ideas to improve vaccination rates for this group of people you claim concern over?

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You think it would improve vax rates in homeless and low income communities with a vax ID? I disagree. It's not really hard to get a vax anywhere in Manhattan, yet those communities still aren't doing it.

Maybe it's because they can't get there, maybe it's for fear of taking time off work, maybe it's distrust in govt. Maybe it's all of those.

To mseries jong. I don't for a second think low income communities don't have a sense inner "community".. I think they have a strong sense of "their community", they just don't really care much, or even give a second thought to yours. They got bigger issues.

I don't believe one of us on this board has any clue what they go through on a daily basis just to get by. We take simple things like a day off work or 2 as no big deal. They don't always have the same luxuries.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

They were better in Absolutely Fabulous.

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Now that’s funny.

Maybe, just maybe some of us do have a clue.
But I have to give credit for making a statement even dumber and less relevant than the one accusing you of not really caring about the poor.

If 1 out of every 1,00,000 infected persons grew a scrotum on their forehead but were otherwise perfectly healthy, vax rates would be 100%

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Maybe, just maybe some of us do have a clue.
But I have to give credit for making a statement even dumber and less relevant than the one accusing you of not really caring about the poor.

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He stopped making sense many posts ago, if he ever did make sense. I point out that he said he claims to be concerned with the low income, rural, and homeless...the population that occupies each of these buckets is by far white non-Hispanic people...in other words, not minorities as he errantly claimed. It makes no difference, we should want everyone to get vaccinated that's eligible, but I thought he should understand he was wrong on that point.

anyhow, I guess I shouldn't expect a coherent response to my question, but in response to a point about low income, RURAL, homeless he starts a rant about Manhattan. Mmkay.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

To mseries jong

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fuck off

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

They were better in Absolutely Fabulous.

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The one on the right--Divine-- was good in Hairspray. (I saw it in Smell-o-vision but all the scratch offs smelled the same.)

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Originally Posted by old goat

The one on the right--Divine-- was good in Hairspray. (I saw it in Smell-o-vision but all the scratch offs smelled the same.)

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I thought the scratch n sniff was Polyester.
John Waters rules.

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Originally Posted by tetzen

I'm resigned to the nearly certain fact that this disease is now endemic and isn't going away anytime soon. I'll be willing to pick up a booster shot here in a few months when it comes around, although some of the discussion I've read on here has me thinking I might delay a bit longer than the 6 month window.

In thinking about the eradication of polio, I'm inclined to think it was a decades-long effort that took finding the right combination of vaccines, treatment, and diagnosis to stamp it out. I suppose it is wishful thinking to believe our society could tackle this disease and get rid of it in such a short timeframe. Instead, it appears we are traveling the typical path to addressing diseases within societies. That is, it comes, people deal with it, and slowly over time, our treatments and vaccines can make it fade into the background.

With that in mind, has there been any reasoned speculation lately on mutation paths that make Covid less dangerous overall while still remaining virulent? Delta is awful, but is there a potential expected offramp somewhere that gets this thing down to chickenpox danger levels?

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The first polio vaccine work was done in the 1930's. Salk did his trial in 1954 and the vaccine was released in 1955. In 10 years cases fell from a peak of 58.000 in 1952 to 900 in 1862. The last community acquired cases in the us were in 1972 I think. There are still a handful of cases every year acquired overseas. It is not clear if polio will ever be eradicated to the point we can stop vaccinating for it, like smallpox. My guess is no, given world politics.

It is theoretically possible that a mutation could arise that is more contagious and less lethal than Delta--this could potentially replace Delta and make Covid a less deadly disease, but I wouldn't count on it. Contagiousness depends a lot on viral load, viral load depends on how fast the virus replicates, and replication is what kills host cells and therefore patients. And measles isn't that great either. Apparently the case fatality rate was as high as 1-6% and in populations without a previous history of the disease it was devastating. Fatality rate would likely be lower today but not negligible.
f
If we're lucky--the virus doesn't mutate so much that neither natural immunity nor vaccines work--the disease will likely be controlled (but not eliminated) by either universal vaccination of children before school age or the exposure of most people as children when the disease is less dangerous. The latter will still mean plenty of people dying of Covid, including children.

Well, hunh.

https://reut.rs/2YfiQen

I can see it now…


“Let’s all get bitten by snakes! Anything but a VACCINE!”

Coworker who decided last week to finally get vaccinated just tested positive. I'm not directly affected yet but a decent amount of work plans just went up in smoke. Way to go asshole.

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Originally Posted by John_B

Coworker who decided last week to finally get vaccinated just tested positive. I'm not directly affected yet but a decent amount of work plans just went up in smoke. Way to go asshole.

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The coworker and their friends are probably yelling "see! breakthrough case, the vaccine is pointless".

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

He stopped making sense many posts ago, if he ever did make sense. I point out that he said he claims to be concerned with the low income, rural, and homeless...the population that occupies each of these buckets is by far white non-Hispanic people...in other words, not minorities as he errantly claimed. It makes no difference, we should want everyone to get vaccinated that's eligible, but I thought he should understand he was wrong on that point.

anyhow, I guess I shouldn't expect a coherent response to my question, but in response to a point about low income, RURAL, homeless he starts a rant about Manhattan. Mmkay.

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Hmmm mostly non Hispanic whites in poverty? Interesting. Rural maybe, but ha....funny man.

Funny that red line aways looked pretty low. Lol. Attachment 384184

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Pretty sure that all those non-white poor folks are very grateful that you are standing up for their rights to not show vaccine proof. In a ski forum.

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Originally Posted by mfcf13

Pretty sure that all those non-white poor folks are very grateful that you are standing up for their rights to not show vaccine proof. In a ski forum.

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Keep ignoring those people. It's kinda always been that way for them eh? Kinda the reason they could give 2 shits about "us" in our homes and our jobs and shit. Just another way "the man" keeps them where he wants them.

Don't believe it? ..I'll say it again it's clearly in the CDC vax stats.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Keep ignoring those people. It's kinda always been that way for them eh? Kinda the reason they could give 2 shits about "us" in our homes and our jobs and shit. Just another way "the man" keeps them where he wants them.

Don't believe it? ..I'll say it again it's clearly in the CDC vax stats.

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You keep saying variations of this: "Kinda the reason they could give 2 shits about "us" in our homes and our jobs and shit".

Maybe it would be better if you didn't treat a group of people as monolithic.

And there are plenty of Brown and Black folks serving in the military, teaching and working in non-profits. You're not going to suggest that those folks are pursuing those careers without a sense of community commitment, are you?

Your posts seem to stereotype non-Whites, while at the same time you're acting like you're some great advocate for them. You're not Bernie Sanders, are you?