Freeride World Tour

Im guessing he's only really skied in the east where carving is king. Freeride comps are daily skiing in the west. Not fwt level obviously but most spend there day trying to ski fun lines that push your skiing to new heights and the terrain akied is way more varied than cut runs of groomers with a few tree runs for spice. East is still fun but the free in freeride is better explored in the alpine

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

dunderhead: you say a lot of stuff with authority in your tone.
I've been patrolling in the LCC over 40 years and picked up the pieces more than once.
Never had PTSD issues.
Never judged anyone for their lack of judgement when injured, in an avalanche, or killed.
Just there to help.
If you think that what is happening with folks sending is limited to and promoted by comps, you are dreaming.
It is pervasive now in all gravity sports for "fun".
And the gram...

I have also been personally interested in the comp scene on account of my kids (who are now 30).
They both competed on the tour(s) and am glad they are not, anymore!

My daughter was by Ryan Hawk's side when he passed.
Got back on the horse in Taos the next weekend.
He would have wanted her to.
Kept her feet on the ground, but got on with her (their) life.
Life does include death, by the way.

I think we all understand your point of view, have room for it, and appreciate it.
But when you get on a high horse and say that your view is the only proper one?
There are many points of view today and coexisting with other's views is more important than ever...

Carving comps? Those are called ski races.

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Well, you are lucky to have the mental make up to not be affected. JHSP has nearly daily debriefings and off season PTSD clinics as do the rangers in the park. I have no problem with people pursuing their own limits, it is when it is monetized that things get iffy and bad decisions are made. Would Aymar have tried that line in any other situation, hell no. He did it because his motives were wrong.

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Originally Posted by dunderhead

Well, you are lucky to have the mental make up to not be affected. JHSP has nearly daily debriefings and off season PTSD clinics. I have no problem with people pursuing their own limits, it is when it is monetized that things get iffy and bad decisions are made. Would Aymar have tried that line in any other situation, hell no. He did it because his motives were wrong.

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I am lucky. Tell myself that everyday. One could be in the Ukraine and see bad shit everyday as a civilian.
With the thin pack / hard snow we've had some bad ones this year. Debrief every one.
I make it a point of asking the younger staff who were hands on how they are sleeping for a few days after.
Keep an eye on em.
Navarro?
This thread called his shit out before the comp began...

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Originally Posted by dunderhead

Would Aymar have tried that line in any other situation, hell no.

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I wonder if the onsite medical staff plays a component in the athletes pushing harder than normal. If they know that medical care is literally seconds away, and a medivac heli already in the air and circlling would a world class extreme sports athlete not take chances in excess of what they would on a normal day in the backcountry with medical care hours away?

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I wonder if the onsite medical staff plays a component in the athletes pushing harder than normal. If they know that medical care is literally seconds away, and a medivac heli already in the air and circlling would a world class extreme sports athlete not take chances in excess of what they would on a normal day in the backcountry with medical care hours away?

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I would hope not, if the risk calculation is such that the thought process is, "if I eat shit I can be airlifted" That is not very sound decision making. How far away help is, who your partners are, and what the conditions are all always things to take into account when assessing a line. But, thinking that because there is a heli and trauma team on site when considering ones line is pretty whacked.

Mainstreaming this is dangerous, dumb, and sets a poor example for the youth. But, that is what sells shit. When it bleeds it leads.

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

I am lucky. Tell myself that everyday. One could be in the Ukraine and see bad shit everyday as a civilian.
With the thin pack / hard snow we've had some bad ones this year. Debrief every one.
I make it a point of asking the younger staff who were hands on how they are sleeping for a few days after.
Keep an eye on em.
Navarro?
This thread called his shit out before the comp began...

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Well, keep doing the right shit. Sometimes people are fine until they are not. It was explained to me at one point that shit like this for some is like a bank account. You draw on it until it is all gone then you are broke.

I have always been one to take into account the affect my own decisions may have on others. Making mistakes is ok and happens. Being dumb is another story.

I've been out skiing - what did I miss??? Other making my fun bet again damnit! Congrats TahoeJ on taking the win.

Bummed for Moga - he had a heater going. Gotta love the full send superman on the bottom air.

Carl Regner looked solid. Same with Boss Ross.

But damn hard to deny Maxi - going huge and relatively clean in consequential terrain. Fkna!

Glad Aymar is okay, but was as worried about Leo Slemett. Scary stuff.

Oh...and Don't feed the troll! It's hard being 19 and knowing it all.


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Originally Posted by dunderhead

Where do you suggest I go?

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Mammoth.

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Originally Posted by NWFlow

Mammoth.

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not without releasable pole straps and quality chamois butter

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Originally Posted by dunderhead

Well, you are lucky to have the mental make up to not be affected. JHSP has nearly daily debriefings and off season PTSD clinics as do the rangers in the park. I have no problem with people pursuing their own limits, it is when it is monetized that things get iffy and bad decisions are made. Would Aymar have tried that line in any other situation, hell no. He did it because his motives were wrong.

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What do you know about his motives and why do you get to decide who has the right ones?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

dunderhead: you say a lot of stuff with authority in your tone.
I've been patrolling in the LCC over 40 years and picked up the pieces more than once.
Never had PTSD issues.
Never judged anyone for their lack of judgement when injured, in an avalanche, or killed.
Just there to help.
If you think that what is happening with folks sending is limited to and promoted by comps, you are dreaming.
It is pervasive now in all gravity sports for "fun".
And the gram...

I have also been personally interested in the comp scene on account of my kids (who are now 30).
They both competed on the tour(s) and am glad they are not, anymore!

My daughter was by Ryan Hawk's side when he passed.
Got back on the horse in Taos the next weekend.
He would have wanted her to.
Kept her feet on the ground, but got on with her (their) life.
Life does include death, by the way.

I think we all understand your point of view, have room for it, and appreciate it.
But when you get on a high horse and say that your view is the only proper one?
There are many points of view today and coexisting with other's views is more important than ever...

Carving comps? Those are called ski races.

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Well said, and there actually IS a list of those that have died in competitive ski races and it is much much larger than just the list of those badly injured at freeride comps. I can think of 2 Tahoe athletes off the top of my head (Emily Clothier, Max Burkhart) but there are probably more.

Sorry for your daughter's loss. Had no idea who she was at the time but I remember reading that in the papers.

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Originally Posted by powdork

What do you know about his motives and why do you get to decide who has the right ones?

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His motives were to win, be famous, make more money, feed his ego, and satiate his adrenal gland. Why else would anyone think it wise to tackle a triple drop to 100 mph into chunder. It was ridiculous to attempt and the result was inevitable. Rene' said so much when he stated he dialed his line back in light of the obviously fucked up snow. If those motivations are the right ones, then have at it. The liability and specter of nearly dead unconscious competitors jelly fishing their way out the run out will eventually lead to resorts and sponsors moving on. Or maybe not, there are a lot of TGR forum fake tough guys out there to market to? Competitors are easily replaced, work for free, and sell lots of red bull and go pros. The economics of it all work well for the ski corporations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

dunderhead: you say a lot of stuff with authority in your tone.
I've been patrolling in the LCC over 40 years and picked up the pieces more than once.
Never had PTSD issues.
Never judged anyone for their lack of judgement when injured, in an avalanche, or killed.
Just there to help.
If you think that what is happening with folks sending is limited to and promoted by comps, you are dreaming.
It is pervasive now in all gravity sports for "fun".
And the gram...

I have also been personally interested in the comp scene on account of my kids (who are now 30).
They both competed on the tour(s) and am glad they are not, anymore!

My daughter was by Ryan Hawk's side when he passed.
Got back on the horse in Taos the next weekend.
He would have wanted her to.
Kept her feet on the ground, but got on with her (their) life.
Life does include death, by the way.

I think we all understand your point of view, have room for it, and appreciate it.
But when you get on a high horse and say that your view is the only proper one?
There are many points of view today and coexisting with other's views is more important than ever...

Carving comps? Those are called ski races.

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You’re Angel and Johnny’s father? Well then you have a lot more perspective than most of the people chiming in here.

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Originally Posted by dunderhead

This aspect of the industry is nothing more than a marketing ploy to sell shit and send suckers into a meat grinder in pursuit of our own narcissism and maybe a free pair of skis. Kind of like the NFL and brain damage, at least those guys are paid well. A person who has written on this aspect of the ski industrial complex is Rob Gaffney. I would suggest searching some of his writing on risk mitigation and what it is like to loose friends.

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I know Robb as do several other people commenting in this thread. You’re perverting his ideas on the subject. His own son gets after it at Squaw, skiing dangerous terrain, dropping big airs and throwing (or attempting) triple backflips, etc. it’s worth noting.

As a parent with a kid who competes in junior IFSA events, I am saddened that this is what the sport has become. My kid and I had a long conversation about irresponsible skiing and risk-taking after watching that.

IFSA events should be a showcase of fantastic skiing, not send-it into a rock wall and pray in terrible snow conditions.

This type of irresponsible risk-taking should be squashed by the event organizers. It sets a terrible example for the youth that look up to these guys.

This thread is giving me some major ski-off vibes. I think chunderhead and tahoej need to meet at Mammoth and have a ski-off to decide if Aymar is reckless or not.

To get this thread back to the common ground of gear whoring:
Interesting ski choice by Ross Tester. Either a Katana 108 mounted like +10 from recommended or the new Revolt 11x???

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Originally Posted by skiracer88_00

As a parent with a kid who competes in junior IFSA events, I am saddened that this is what the sport has become. My kid and I had a long conversation about irresponsible skiing and risk-taking after watching that.

IFSA events should be a showcase of fantastic skiing, not send-it into a rock wall and pray in terrible snow conditions.

This type of irresponsible risk-taking should be squashed by the event organizers. It sets a terrible example for the youth that look up to these guys.

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Whut? If dude sticks the landing, you just witnessed some fantastic skiing. You want them to ban jumping off cliffs? The whole premise of the FWT is risk taking. Sometimes it works out, sometimes not so much. It's not a sport for pussies. I know you want your kid to be safe, I do, too, but if he/she wants to get to the top level in a few years, they are going to be risking severe injury or death.

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Originally Posted by total_immortal

This thread is giving me some major ski-off vibes. I think chunderhead and tahoej need to meet at Mammoth and have a ski-off to decide if Aymar is reckless or not.

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The venue needs to be something big on the east side of the Sierras. The steepest shit at Mammoth is equivalent to the apron of the Bec. I am down, we need the snow to be refreeze-chicken heads with lots of runnels and pepper. We are gonna need some volunteers to hike red bull banners to the finish line, some drone operators, and of course a medi vac team. This is the next "progression" of the sport and I am fkn ready to "push it" I am sensing my line will involve not a triple drop, but a whole series of as many as 7 mandatories into the runnels. Instead of a rock wall to hit at the bottom, I actually want a full on scree field to wreck into. The one with the most compound fractures will be declared the "winner" bonus points will be given if you are unconscious or your lip is dangling off your face after being bitten thru. There will not only be a front bib for when I puke but also a back bib, like a diaper for when I shit my pants after dying in a glorious show of ski radness! Aymar will look on in awe. If he has recovered by next year maybe we will let him compete, but probably fkn not cuz he seems kind of conservative in his decision making. This event will only be for the sickest of the sick. Open sign up at jackassmeetsepicfail@hotmail.com. Bring the Pain! what you got tahoe?

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Originally Posted by mmmm...pow!

Whut? If dude sticks the landing, you just witnessed some fantastic skiing. You want them to ban jumping off cliffs? The whole premise of the FWT is risk taking. Sometimes it works out, sometimes not so much. It's not a sport for pussies. I know you want your kid to be safe, I do, too, but if he/she wants to get to the top level in a few years, they are going to be risking severe injury or death.

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There are levels of risk-taking with associated likelihoods of success, likelihoods of failure and consequences of failure associated with them. The line chosen by Novarro was irresponsible due to a high probability of failure and associated consequence of failure. I would have felt this way regardless of whether he stuck the landing. Additionally, there was not much in the way of good/fluid skiing above the cliffs. Sticking that landing and straight-lining out of control into the finish corral (which is what would have happened if he stuck it) would not have constituted fantastic skiing.

I did not have any issues with any of the other lines chosen that day, except for the female (I am forgetting who) that ended up going so fast out of a landing she couldn't make a single turn on the bottom half of the face.

Part of responsible big mountain skiing is tailoring your skiing to the snow conditions. Putting yourself into a position that you are skiing out of control should automatically put you in the bottom of the pack.

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Originally Posted by skiracer88_00

There are levels of risk-taking with associated likelihoods of success, likelihoods of failure and consequences of failure associated with them. The line chosen by Novarro was irresponsible due to a high probability of failure and associated consequence of failure. I would have felt this way regardless of whether he stuck the landing. Additionally, there was not much in the way of good/fluid skiing above the cliffs. Sticking that landing and straight-lining out of control into the finish corral (which is what would have happened if he stuck it) would not have constituted fantastic skiing.

I did not have any issues with any of the other lines chosen that day, except for the female (I am forgetting who) that ended up going so fast out of a landing she couldn't make a single turn on the bottom half of the face.

Part of responsible big mountain skiing is tailoring your skiing to the snow conditions. Putting yourself into a position that you are skiing out of control should automatically put you in the bottom of the pack.

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There are no responsibilities in skiing, it's about the least responsible thing a person can do. Those risks have obviously been working for Aymar, as he has been able to make a living and ski on the tour.

I don’t know about you all but whenever I watch these things I have an irrepressible compulsion to buy a case of Red Bull ……. I mean who doesn’t want wings?

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Originally Posted by total_immortal

This thread is giving me some major ski-off vibes. I think chunderhead and tahoej need to meet at Mammoth and have a ski-off to decide if Aymar is reckless or not.

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Just to be clear, I'm on the side that thinks Aymar was being a little reckless with that line choice under those conditions. But I'm also not going full retard and shitting on the sport like dunderhead.

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Originally Posted by mmmm...pow!

There are no responsibilities in skiing, it's about the least responsible thing a person can do. Those risks have obviously been working for Aymar, as he has been able to make a living and ski on the tour.

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This is just stupid.

As an extreme example, do you see any difference between Jamie Pierre and Chris Davenport?

Both are/were big mountain skiers who accomplished incredible things and were able to make a living off of the sport...One of them I see as a fantastic ambassador for our sport and role model for my kids. The other, not so much.

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Originally Posted by dunderhead

His motives were to win, be famous, make more money, feed his ego, and satiate his adrenal gland. Why else would anyone think it wise to tackle a triple drop to 100 mph into chunder. It was ridiculous to attempt and the result was inevitable. Rene' said so much when he stated he dialed his line back in light of the obviously fucked up snow. If those motivations are the right ones, then have at it. The liability and specter of nearly dead unconscious competitors jelly fishing their way out the run out will eventually lead to resorts and sponsors moving on. Or maybe not, there are a lot of TGR forum fake tough guys out there to market to? Competitors are easily replaced, work for free, and sell lots of red bull and go pros. The economics of it all work well for the ski corporations.

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You mean the same Reine who also crashed and hit his head on a rock?

Here is the Dr. Gaffney you're talking about.
https://vimeo.com/153878140

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ZrXJ-3-eQ