Three stranded on Mt Hood

If CNN's commentary was bad, how would you rate Fox News' suggestion that the v shaped rope thing was a ladder. "like in the Khumbu icefall on Mt Everest".

In heavier and worse news, Portland Mountain Rescue will likely not be called back to the mountain tomorrow by the Hood River Sherriff. His crews will be working the north side, which suggests body recovery for the missing 2 or hopefully some reason to believe they made it down to Cooper Spur or the Elliot Glacier and just didn't feel like coming out in todays clear and calm sunshine.

RIP

Bummer for the family positive vibes to them, hopefully the other two are found alive and well (as can be).

As far as beacons while climbing. No.
A few things about climbing:

You carry a shitton of stuff, the last thing that you need is a beacon that may be used for half a day during a week of climbing. Is better to choose your route wisely.

Often you are roped, an avy takes everyone, essentially like skiing a slope with multiple people on it. Also big mountain avies are often well, BIG, which diminishes the likelihood of someone surviving (not necessarily the case on Mt Hood though).

PLBs are far better for finding people on a rescue than beacons.


Side note: I read that they found the one guy in the snow cave, left him there for later recovery, but took his gear. Personally I would have left the gear, maybe those other two stumble back to the scene and could use/need it (unlikely, but not impossible).

I'm going to guess that the other 2 either were caught in an avalanche during the storm or are wandering way down one of the endless gorges spilling off of Hood.

Hope they are putting significant efforts looking at treeline and below and in those gorges too.

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Originally Posted by Camel Toad

You carry a shitton of stuff, the last thing that you need is a beacon that may be used for half a day during a week of climbing. Is better to choose your route wisely.

PLBs are far better for finding people on a rescue than beacons.

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In any avy danger on exposed route you could also "use" a beacon for hours, days, or weeks at a time. Choosing your route wisely to avoid avy terrain is always a good idea, but very often its not possible to completely avoid avy terrain on bigger mountains.

PLB would certainly given a better/quicker chance in this case. Although not the case for any avy rescue.

Just ID'd

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...a070428S70.DTL

Mt. Hood Body Identified As Kelly James

The AP is saying that the body is Kelly James but it isn't "confirmed" yet. Kelly was the injured climber and the one that made the cell call.

I'm losing my optimism. If these guy were alive and up there in a cave wouldn't they have heard the heli's and come out by now. They left the body up there last night! Why didn't they bring it down for autopsy and positive id?

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Originally Posted by AsheanMT

They left the body up there last night! Why didn't they bring it down for autopsy and positive id?

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By the time they found the body they had very little daylight left. Just barely enough to see if they could find any identifying items on the body (such as a wallet) and then get off the mountain.

I've got to say I'm losing my optimism as well. If those guys are out there and did not come out in the high clouds and wind of Saturday, or the calm and bluebird of Sunday, I have to wonder what is keeping them :(

They identified the body as Kelly James, the one who had made the cell phone call.

Kelly's brother is on katu right now and he said its his brother. This is fucking sad!

BRUTAL

RIP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camel Toad

Bummer for the family positive vibes to them, hopefully the other two are found alive and well (as can be).

As far as beacons while climbing. No.
A few things about climbing:

You carry a shitton of stuff, the last thing that you need is a beacon that may be used for half a day during a week of climbing. Is better to choose your route wisely.

Often you are roped, an avy takes everyone, essentially like skiing a slope with multiple people on it. Also big mountain avies are often well, BIG, which diminishes the likelihood of someone surviving (not necessarily the case on Mt Hood though).

PLBs are far better for finding people on a rescue than beacons.


Side note: I read that they found the one guy in the snow cave, left him there for later recovery, but took his gear. Personally I would have left the gear, maybe those other two stumble back to the scene and could use/need it (unlikely, but not impossible).

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Not to distract from this thread, but climbers often do take beacons. Most climbers going up the Cooper Spur route in the Winter would take them- the entire upper slope is avalanche prone.

This is a very sad story. Best of luck to the climber's families.

Rest in peace, all...

Nothing short of a miracle now could bring these two home...

That's what we can all hope for, though... die doing something you love, on a mountain you envy, with your friends til the end.

Comments from the families say that the deceased never felt closer to God as when he was on a mountain. While not religious myself, I certainly know the feeling, and am pretty sure most of those on this board understand too.

RIP Kelly James. ++++vibes for the others

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Originally Posted by kb1dqh

Not to distract from this thread, but climbers often do take beacons. Most climbers going up the Cooper Spur route in the Winter would take them- the entire upper slope is avalanche prone.

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Huh? Avalanche on Cooper Spur = long fall = dead. Maybe the Mazamas would wear beacons. The main reason climbers don't take beacons - it's a body locator.

RIP and best of luck to the searchers and surviving family

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Originally Posted by cj001f

The main reason climbers don't take beacons - it's a body locator.

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Isn't that an excellent reason to where one? If you go missing on a climb, and SAR is sent out after you, aren't you putting them at more risk by making them clamber all over the place looking for your body?

If these three had beacons or Reccos, it MIGHT have facilitated their rescue, but it MIGHT also have facilitated the sad process that is going on now, which is almost certainly a body search under very dangerous conditions.

Weird to see a blackhawk and a chinook and hear an unseen military jet (too high in the clouds) fly over my house a few minutes ago.

that news conference was a big bummer, the families of the guys still missing still have hope

at this point I just hope the searchers stay safe!

Conflicting reports online now. KATU is saying the climbers made it over the top and missed the pearly gates, then tried to descend the Elliot in the storm. Doesn't match up with their south side descent plan, or common sense for anyone with a compass, or with where the cave was supposedly found.
Hopefully this is just info overload confusion, but if they had indeed made it over to the SS, the rescuers were so so close for a bunch of days while the storms raged and kept them low. Also, if they tried to descend the Elliott they are either in a crevasse or under avy debris.

should be a news brief in 15 min.

Of all the technology talked about, nobody seemed to mention satellite phones. They've come down a lot in price, and you can rent them pretty reasonably for trips. Anybody know how they work in mountain conditions?

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Originally Posted by Platinum Pete

if they tried to descend the Elliott they are either in a crevasse or under avy debris.

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If they tried to descent down/across Elliott they will either find the bodies in the spring or never at all.

The Elliott glacier is not a place to be during a storm in early winter. In early winter with good weather it's questionable enough.

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Originally Posted by tenB

Anybody know how they work in mountain conditions?

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I'd imagine they work just as well as any handheld GPS....maintain a line-of-sight with the sky, and it should work fairly well.

Just saw them unload what I presume is James' body from a 304th chopper into the medical examiner's truck, down on the HR waterfront. :(

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Originally Posted by natty dread

Just saw them unload what I presume is James' body from a 304th chopper into the medical examiner's truck, down on the HR waterfront. :(

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So sad. I saw his wife on the news a few nights ago saying that they were planning on going back to Rainier for their anniversary - he proposed at the summit.

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Originally Posted by LAN

So sad. I saw his wife on the news a few nights ago saying that they were planning on going back to Rainier for their anniversary - he proposed at the summit.

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Thanks for that, like I didn't already feel sad enough about all this. Can we please get some kind of good news? I don't care if it's that one dude survived by eating his dead partner, I just want something to be optimistic about.

Teams should search the glaciers fissures if they are stuck in some fissure NOW.It´s what I thought would happen them trying to descent.

I spoke to a friend a little while ago who's shooting for ABC on Hood. He's at Timberline and they are getting ready to pack it in. It appears the search will likely be called today. RIP to those guys.

Another system blows in tomorrow afternoon.

This one has really occupied a lot of my mind for its duration. I just got back from lunch with some coworkers who were asking me my thoughts on it.

It's really strange how these things affect you when you're familiar with the areas they were in, as well as the dangers. People who are unfamiliar with Hood often view it as a laughable ascent, and honestly, the south side route when done in the spring is pretty easy. The rest of the mountain is incredibly harsh though.

Cooper Spur has plenty of pucker factor (see: Squirrel's TR from last spring) and some definite no fall zones. Wy'east is exposed and steep, you'll go for a long ride if you make a mistake up there. The north side is incredibly rugged with Elliot glacier being crevase riddled, the increased avalanche danger from all the wind deposits.

Really a reminder that it doesn't take that much bad luck to put you into an incredibly tight spot.

News reports are claiming that the injury was a dislocated shoulder. I’ve dealt with this injury on a mellow spring ski tour, but on top of a big mountain with a blizzard approaching… you could easily burn your window of safety futilely trying to get the shoulder back in socket.

I know almost nothing about first aid, would a wilderness first aid class teach you to set the shoulder so the injured person could travel? (My friend told be how to pop his shoulder, but I don’t really remember.)


Edit: “Dislocated” is not synonymous with “separated” when you’re talking about shoulders. In fact, they are different injuries. I don't know shit.

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Originally Posted by Greydon Clark

News reports are claiming that the injury was a separated shoulder. I’ve dealt with this injury on a mellow spring ski tour, but on top of a big mountain with a blizzard approaching… you could easily burn your window of safety futilely trying to get the shoulder back in socket.

I know almost nothing about first aid, would a wilderness first aid class teach you to set the shoulder so the injured person could travel? (My friend told be how to pop his shoulder, but I don’t really remember.)

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What you're thinking of is a dislocated shoulder I believe.....out of socket.

A separated shoulder is tearing the muscle between your collarbone and scapula.....essentially making it a dangling limb with no support from the top. I've done both of mine this year and it's a debilitating injury for sure immediately following. The weight of your own arm is too much to bear. Down climbing using your arm would be impossible.

Everything I've read said dislocated shoulder (a major distinction). A discloated shoulder would easily eat up any fudge factor they had built into their schedule. A seperated shoulder usually causes discomfort and pain, but use of the arm would be retained, and treatment can easily be postponed.

Regarding the dislocated shoulder, there's a high danger of fracturing other bones if you can even get the humerous back into its socket. Furthermore, the swelling and ligament stretching/tearing would be enough to make the arm effectively useless, even if they could get it back in the socket, which is unlikely.

Complicating matters even more is that in any sort of activity one would instictively use their other arm to cradle and position the dislocated one such that you felt a minimum amount of pain, effectively denying you the use of either arm.

That injury, while on (or near) the summit would be disasterous. All of the descent routes are steep and somewhat technical at a minimum. The downclimb through the Pearly Gates would be nearly impossible, the NF gullies, Cooper Spur, and Wy'east are all too steep to be downclimbed with minimal use of one arm.

Another thing mentioned at cascadeclimbers.com was the possibility of head trauma accompanying whatever event dislocated his shoulder. Shoulders aren't easy to dislocate, and it's not unreasonable that he was suffered some head trauma during the accident. Which would add an entirely new dimension to the situation they were faced with (a mostly incapacitated companion, rapidly souring weather, unfamiliar terrain, and a lack of long stay survival gear).

such a sad story.... prayers to all involved. both the families and SAR folks.

it brings back memories of a SAR that i was a part of in April 2000 where a friend of mine and his partner were killed on Mt. Shasta. i was actually supposed to go with him on that trip. after 5 days we had to call off the SAR when a helicopter crashed on the saddle between Shasta and Shastina (http://www.climbingmtshasta.org/news/news7.htm).

i was on the tarmac waiting for that helicopter to get me to bring me up to the saddle... when it crashed. luckily no one was seriously hurt in that helicopter crash, but it was a sad moment when i realized the search was done for my friend. some other friends of mine found his body several weeks later on Memorial Day so that they were able to bring closure for the family.

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Originally Posted by ptavv

A seperated shoulder usually causes discomfort and pain, but use of the arm would be retained,

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I couldn't use mine for a few days.

But I agree use would certainly be regained to some degree in a matter of days.........which put them into the storm unfortuately.

A dislocation, especially one that couldn't be popped back in would be far worse.

Either one creates a piss poor situation on the top of hood.:frown:

Keep wondering about the other two..............

Are you sure you just had a separated shoulder? Usually you still maintain some use of your arm, it's just at a very reduced capacity. You may not be able to use it to descend, or hold your body weight with an ice axe, but it wouldn't inhibit use of the other arm, you would likely be able to move the injured arm to maintain balance, and you'd still be mobile (not really the case with a dislocation). Perhaps you had a sternoclavicular separation?

Depending on the degree of separation, you might have some use, albeit limited with a separation. A dislocation, like what I read it was is another problem altogether. I've separated both shoulders to varying degrees (frickin' 360's that only went 270..) and it can be painful and limit your range of motion, especially with anything where you need to reach above a horizontal plane. To try and climb, even with a separation would be very difficult since you need to lift your arm over your head. I can't even imagine trying with a dislocation. Who knows what other injuries there may have been to accompany the dislocation? Poor guy(s).....

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Originally Posted by ptavv

Are you sure you just had a separated shoulder? Usually you still maintain use of your arm, it's just at a very reduced capacity. You may not be able to use it to descend, or hold your body weight with an ice axe, but it wouldn't inhibit use of the other arm, you would likely be able to move the arm to maintain balance, and you'd still be mobile (not really the case with a dislocation). Perhaps you had a sternoclavicular separation?

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Both of mine were at least 2nd degree if not 3rd. I couldn't even let my arm hang, much less move it for balance. Lifting my arm was not only painful but just mechanically impossible. My most recent one I had to keep my arm slung for a few days before it could even support the weight. They really were just dead weight with pretty serious pain if not supported. But of course there's varying degrees to everything. I was using my arm from the first one in two weeks. Sternoclavicular is at the chest/upper ribcage. If you could see what my shoulders look like now, there's no question what happened. They're full, classic acromioclavicular separations with the raised outer collarbone hovering over my shoulders.

Skateboarding and biking, I've seen a bunch of separations and dislocations. Last year a buddy dislocated his shoulder so badly it took 3 doctors and a heap of muscle relaxers to get it back in place. I can see either injury severely wieghing on progress, but a bad dislocation would be much worse. You're right about that. I can't imagine the decisions that went on up there.

I didn't doubt it, I was just speaking to what I've typically seen with shoulder separations.

Yeah, the decision making must have been brutal up there. There was a note by the Sheriff about side by side tracks indicating that at some point the climbers were climbing parallel to one another (at least two of them). Would jive with the theory that the dislocated shoulder immobilzed Kelly and he had to be assisted by his partners (perhaps with his arm over the shoulder of one of his partners, like leaving a football field).

It's a terrible tragedy :(

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

....I've seen a bunch of separations and dislocations. Last year a buddy dislocated his shoulder so badly it took 3 doctors and a heap of muscle relaxers to get it back in place. I can see either injury severely wieghing on progress, but a bad dislocation would be much worse. You're right about that. I can't imagine the decisions that went on up there.

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I've put dislocated shoulders back in place for two different people. They had dislocated them before and everything was stretched for relatively easy reset. Even then, they were not up for any significant arm work for a couple of days.

If this was a first-time injury for Kelly James, it would have been hell to put back in place, especially in the cold and cramped conditions.
If he dislocated his shoulder before, I still doubt he could have downclimbed without a bunch of help.

If he had a shoulder separation - torn muscle & connective tissue - his arm would have been worthless - been there, done that.

Understandable why the other two left him there to get outside help. Those are the types of events that turn a well-planned trip into a shitstorm.

My heart goes out to the families....

I've dislocated my right shoulder many times in the bc before I had it surgically repaired. I've had a WFR course and they did teach us how to reduce dislocations of many of the body's joints, although I've heard they don't teach joint reductions anymore. I had my brother pop it back in within 2 minutes of it being dislocated and was able to ski the rest of the day including skins on/off that were very sticky. For me, the first dislocation was the easiest to relocate...the rest were more difficult.

Basically I used a reverse pitcher's motion: arm bent at 90degree, traction pulled from the elbow (this is key) and then arm/humorous guided posteriorly back into place. This was done on pretty steep slopes but we didn't need to be roped up or anything of that nature. The pain of a dislocation is pretty bad and use of the arm is not possible but once back in its like ...."ahhhh".

Sincere regards to the families.

Edited to add: Just sharing my experiences and I don't know the specific type or severity of dislocation experienced by the injured climber.

I get the feeling we'll never know the full story here.

Did they not have ropes? If they did you'd think a rapel/lower down the Pearly Gates might have been the key to the dilemna.

Not to armchair quarterback but I think one of the lessons we can learn is that you're really got to rely on self rescue as your best chance...that or get a Personal Locator Beacon or Satelite phone.

They had rope(s). They found some cut rope attached to the anchor at the "second cave."

It seems to me that they couldn't locate the Pearly Gates entrance slot. From the summit it's not as easy to locate as it is often made to sound. Particularly if you're unfamiliar with the summit area and ascended a route on the opposite side of the mountain. They would have been seeing the Cooper Spur route for most of their ascent, so they would be visually acquainted with it, whereas the Pearly Gates would be something they had merely read about.