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Tree.
Serious question, answer honestly.
Have you ever been in a similar situation? Where you dug your good friend out of a large avalanche, full burial, no signs of him on top?
If so, you have some ground to stand on.
If not, you should shut the fuck up.
now that I think about it, you must be a beater. There is no way someone with any experience in the matter would post a comment like yours. Have a good one, beater.
Don't feed the retarded troll. It's like digging a hole in sand.
true.
happy to see everything turned out ok.
A good recap of the incident on UAC.
A chicken in every pot and a dick in every thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
good job guys, well executed self rescue. glad to hear everyone is reasonably well.
jitters running through me, may everyone have a great, safe season.
Well executed rescue. Good to hear everyone is safe.
A salmon in every stream?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Pretty lucky there was even a rescue given all three were caught in the slide. Those photos on the Avalanche Center site are intense.
A few pics from the area to add insight........last year touring there.
http://fritzrips.com/Gallery/albums/...n/IMG_2660.jpg
Generally a mellow area on the east aspects, steepening in angle as aspect changes to north. East aspect shown here. http://fritzrips.com/Gallery/albums/...n/IMG_2652.jpg
Slide occurred on steeper north aspect. Slope facing viewer. Skier is skinning east aspect.
http://fritzrips.com/Gallery/albums/...n/IMG_2649.jpg
thanks for posting those, trackhead. I wonder if a separate thread (in Ski/snowboard) with those pics and links to Cowboy's pics wouldn't be helpful? Sure to spark an interesting discussion. I, for one have been reflecting on how go/no go usually seems like less of an issue when you're ascending, even when on a diagonal, where you're changing elevation and aspect simultaneously. And since this thread is pretty well thrunted...
If you haven't, check out the updated report and pictures
http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/Accide...k,11-14-06.htm
(if the link has been posted, this is a repetition for those who don't feel like wading through the thread)
Here's Cowboy's pic. Red arrow indicates location when caught.
http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/Accide...s/image007.jpg
In the photo above, yellow arrows indicate flanks of slide.
Most definitely check out the UAC write-up. Scares the God into me from my seat. I can't imagine what the guys up there went through:
"Rough measurements on a topographic map indicate this avalanche was around 2000 feet wide. It ran 600 vertical feet. The fracture line depth ranged from 14 to 36 inches and averaged around 28 inches." 2000 feet wide, holy fucking shit.
http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/Accide...k,11-14-06.htm [/repeat so don't miss it]
scary....that thing is huge
Thank goodness everyone is ok! Those photos are frightening.
- Glad Steve and others are OK
- This is this year's WAKE UP CALL FOR ALL OF US!!!
- This report is quite informative http://www.avalanche.org/%7Euac/Acci...k,11-14-06.htm The thing that spooks me is that the whole are looks somehow so benign and the route isnt so obviously dangerous. I've toured just down the ridge in Days/Flagstaff on similar terrain.
- The Tree guy's comments were a touch insensitive, but this is a forum and we should welcome debate not quell it with beligerent assbaggery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treepinner
nice, you douche bag JONG - as supu would say, SPLIT
Wow, so glad to see everyone is OK. Especially a Dad-to-be. Great job on being prepared and well-practiced in self-rescue. This could not have turned out any better, save for not happening at all.
Silver Fork is a great drainage. One of the few places that has the combination of snow ccumulation, smooth terrrain and access for early season skiing. I have been in the exact same position (geographically and mentally) as these guys a number of times and can vouch for the temptation of their ascent route.
My speculation, not too wild, I don't think. I type it here in part so I can think about my decision-making process if I were there that day.
The east face of West Bowl is prime skiing in early snow. Relatively easy access from Alta, fairly long, relatively low-angle shot. Obvious cherry picking. The ascent from the bottom of the W Bowl e-facing run (if you are doing laps, or returning to the high point of West Bowl for other objectives) usually takes one of two routes: back up the east face fo W Bowl or up the NE face of W Bowl proper (nearly the W end of Davenport Ridge on a topo). Both routes are straight forward and offer some "protection" (more mental than physical) in the form of sparse trees and terrain features that the mind can link up and form a justifiable ascent route in most conditions.
The E facing ascent is longer and can expose the climbers to a couple of areas of steep micro-traps, which may also have been windloaded by the strong W-NW winds of the day, though the terrain overall is less steep (30-degress vs 35+ degrees on the N-facing ascent) than the route the climbers chose. Again, well-known differences to those who have spent time in the drainage, as I 'd wager our friends have.
Otter, Xover and the JWest's party's chosen route is obvious from the bottom of their first descent. I'd wager they contemplated the e-facing ascent, too. But it is further down the drainage (a few hundred yards), is on the leeward side of the winds that day, has some steep sections and is longer. I'd wager pretty great skiing off the high point of W bowl was encouraging them to get back up quickly, and a degree of early season powder fever was beckoning. Stong skiers with quite a bit of snow-know, too. Thus, the N-facing ascent was chosen. Totally understandable given the elements in play on this outing.
This is a textbook example of how a few degrees on the inclinometer and the compass can have dire consequences. A few degrees steeper and perhaps more facets as it is on the north side of the compass. It is crucial that we listen to our learning, especially when we are in the yellow to red zones.
Again, many of us have been here physically and mentally. These guys made some wrong decisions, as they admit. Let's learn from theirs and not have a replay later this season with different outcomes.
Those pictures are very sobering. Seriously glad it ended well and well done on the rescue. 4 feet deep for 15 minutes, Woof.
Otter, Glad you are still with us mang.
One thing this reinforces is how many accidents (remembering Mammoth patrolers, another Utah accident, and others) happen while skinning up while many of us probably get more concerned or analytical about the ski down. Gotta have the avi eyes on all the time. Thanks for posting dudes.
I htink this is worth quoting for more to see from the report:
Again, no fingers being pointed. The honesty is admirable and that is what helps others from making similar mistakes. Props to all those involved.Quote:
At least one member of the party had reservations about some of the decisions but did not speak up. Later when the group discussed the accident, the other two had reservations as well but there was not complete communication. This fits into the “no leader” category where no one is in charge of making sure complete communication is occurring. Many accidents occur due to communication problems and no one is immune to making similar mistakes.
Great post Adski! So true, I think, about how a few degrees here and there can lead to completely different results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adski
So glad everyone's OK! Saw this on the news, and am amazed it was actually pretty fairly reported.
One huge benefit of this board is our ability to learn from each others experiences. Let's keep that in mind!
I had a big scare at the same place. I was nearly caught in a slide in silverfork back in the day 95 or 96 ski season. I was touring with Mike from the Peruvian lodge, and my brother Brian. Same circumstances but well into winter. Feb or March. We had hiked up flagstaff and did a run down the east facing lower angle portion of the bowl. We had finished our run and chose to access the ridge by hiking up (booting) the same path Steve Lloyd and Jason West took. Upon nearing the ridge another party had reached the top from Alta and was preparing to descend. Not sure if they ever saw us hiking up near the rocks in Upper Silver Fork before they descended. One person in the party decided against hucking the cornice that was built up and traversed across slope in the wind loaded area just below it. This caused a wide spread avalanche that kept propagating towards us the further the skier traversed. The Trigger Causer was able to arrest himself or herself at the crown face and the propagation towards us stopped. All we could do was watch in wonder at the avalanche. No one was caught in the slide from either party. We were less than 50 feet from the one flank of the avalanche. We hiked up the slide path and counted our blessings. We never encountered the other party that day to "Thank them for scaring the shit out of us"
Prindle - is the cat tree of your avatar at alta? I can't remember where I've seen it.
Yes that is F*ck you cat
I did not make up the name.
found at Alta
whereabouts (you got to figure that out for yourself)
The thing I am most struck by is the width of the slide.
The Trade Route. That's the way I learned to climb it and I'd do it again via that route (30 vs. 35+ is more than enough of a difference to avalanches + more sunshine over there). You end up in the saddle that goes over to Days. The route is on the Alpentech map as well as in Wasatch Tours. We spend much more time going up hill than down, so it's much more important to pick conservative uptracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adski
Interesting. Really glad this ended okay.
I've always been really nervous about being exposed on the up, with skins on, tired, breathing hard already, etc, etc.
This certainly reinforces those thoughts.
It's called the praying cat and it is almost directly below the supreme chair at Alta. Not really a secret at all.
Interesting thing in reviewing my old Alpentech map was the number of documented slides on the N aspect, prolly including the one that hit the WMC group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ermine
yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Am I to understand that it ripped across/through the trees all the way to that yellow arrow??? :eek: :eek: :eek:
Wow. BIG slide.
Glad all are ok.
Sobering
Our group went up Grizzly and over to Silver Fork today to see the slide for ourselves. All I have to say is the pictures don't do justice to the magnitude of this slide.
More pics of the Silver Fork slide, and the many other slides on the same north aspect on the ridgeline. You can stand atop a ridge and look around and see no less than 10 big natural avies in the immediate area. Impressive slide cycle to say the least.
http://fritzrips.com/Gallery1/albums...7/IMG_4592.jpg
Impressive photos. Thanks Trackhead. No doubt there was lots of potential here for disaster. Did you happen to look if that layer is stabilizing?
A person in our group was still hearing thumpin and whumping yesterday on similar aspects in Twin Lakes pass area. We skied some 35 degree N. facing stuff today that seemed fine today. We still were staying very conservative in our decisions, as I think that slide is weighing heavily on most peoples minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Skied with Otter, J, and later Xover and the whole Alta maggot crew yesterday. Just wanted to say it hit me hard seeing Steve especially...so good to see ya buddy, and ski some ripping turns with you. :)
The layer is still there. Without a change in weather that layer will be there for awhile. We triggered two slides off of 10420 yesterday and the same weak layer was the culprit. See my post in in the slide snow for more data. The skiing off of the top of 10420 and in the trees (low angle to avoid all the deadfall) was pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
The conditions in UT sound a lot more like the typical Colorado early season snowpack than the typical UT snowpack.
http://www.avalanche.org/%7Euac/newa...y/advisory.php
Take extra care until you guys get quite a bit more snow to bridge over that mess.
Josh
It was good to ski with you as well. It felt good to ski and get out. I had butterfly's in my stomach on the drive up, but those quickly went away. Good to ski with all the magotts.