Heh. I am actually going to Colorado next week. I just need to swing by Bent Gate and pick some O1s up then get to Marsha up Boulder. But thanks for the offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Yes, I am in Chicago until mid-May.
Printable View
Heh. I am actually going to Colorado next week. I just need to swing by Bent Gate and pick some O1s up then get to Marsha up Boulder. But thanks for the offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Yes, I am in Chicago until mid-May.
or just order some 01's from backcountry.com and have them shipped to me?
trying to see if I can swing my good deal through Dobish at Bent Gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
First off me; 5'11' 155lbs pretty small dude. fischer atua everday ski. Have lotus 120 flex 2 190 with scratch 14 bindings mounted +.75
Conditions: 8-16" blower pow on vail frontside. 5-10 backside with concrete underneath. for the day skied about 31000 vert.
First off holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We headed out back and you needed to make soft turns to stay off the concrete below. What do ya know the 120 did this with ease just let it get up to speed and roll'em over and well you were rippin. If you'd catch a hard windblown icy spot they would take the edge and hold it. Unreal pow to ice performance. Just keep'em on edge and stay into them and you were money. Dont want to sound ridiculous here but my buddy had some 195 bandit b'3 with the metal in and he had a terrible time out back because he was deeper in the snow and traveling slower which meant more time spent on the concret which made your bones shake.oUch!
Frontside; We spent most of the day on the frontside hitting deep stashes and droppin modest airs 15-20 feet. I personally hit about 10 decent drops and stomped everyone one of them. The skis give such a big large stable,platform to drop on it makes it tough not to stick it. F-n killer. At first I was leary of some tight trees but I realized i just had to ski them like I was skiing my other skis and the lotus's would do whatever I would ask of them quickly and effortlessly. THey are so light and stable you need to ski them to believe them. Making turns of any shape or size didn't matter it seemed like they were specifically built for every single turn you could make flippin unreal. Big carves short quick ones or smears it was all money.
As things started to track up I just kept it pinned. Stayed strong and blasted through everything. As things started to scrape off and expose the hardpan you could still make any kind of turn you wanted to whether it was icy or soft the ski would stay one edge hold up and power out of the turn.
In the end I am so impressed my buddies are going to shoot me if i dont stop talking about them. They ski so easy but have the power and float to make everything effortless. Great for stomping landings, great for crud, great for quick turns or huge 46 meter radius turns, smears it doesn't matter. No problems skating, no fatigue from being heavy(light as hell) and IMHO much more versatile than they are given credit for.
In the end you gotta ride'm to really believe them. The more the day progressed the bigger my smile was. Absolutely the funnest ski I have been on and the boys at dps deserve a huge standing ovation becuase the wait was every single bit worth it.:yourock: :fm: :fmicon: :biggrin:
^
One more happy customer :)
I am eagerly awaiting my replacement pair. Last years is still a great ski, but the slightly stiffer tip and the durable topsheet is gonna make it just perfect. The old ski will do the work the next couple of weeks, and it is still a really fun ski...
With every comment like this that I share with my pops, he is getting more and more stoked for his 178 120s! Should be arriving in about a week I'm told...Quote:
Originally Posted by vailcat
damn. i agree. stiffer tip + durable topsheet = money. hmmm. maybe i need a fifth pair of skis in the 100mm+ sub-quiver.Quote:
Originally Posted by KANUTTEN
Marshal gave me a phone call yesterday saying "GET TO THE SHOP! NOW!". Then another about 30 seconds later with "Err... sorry, there was a box here that I thought might have a chance of being your skis, but they weren't. :("
I could hear the excitement with the first call and the groan of disappointment with the second. Just wanted to say that was some funny shit, schral. I laughed for like a half hour.
This man is a VERY clear advocate for these skis. And I can see why. :D
I'm DYING for some fresh snow so I can try out the 120's. DYING!
Maybe I missed it somewhere - but has anyone who has skied both compared the 120 and the Pontoon head to head? If so, where is it? If not, anyone able and willing to do so?
If I can get my hands on a pair of toons to try and some snow, I'd be willing to.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift
That's funny, because I was there the same day, doing the same thing! I was blowing off work for an hour and half a mere week before a massive deadline, so I snuck up without any plans/friends/etc and skied 12 non-stop top to bottom runs from frontside to Blue Sky and back, then literally RAN back to the car to get back to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by vailcat
Me: 5'10" 175lbs, pretty strong skier. Everyday ski is a 190cm Gotama. First day as well on the 190cm Lotus 120 Flex 2, mounted +.75cm with s916s.
Conditions: as above
Review: similar, although I still need more time to really get to know this ski. You know how wine aficionados can discern various sub-tones and subtle undercurrents in a vintage? I think this ski is sort of like that. It's a very sophisticated/complex/smart response. You get a different response at lower speeds that you do at high speeds, and it reacts to the hardness (or softness as the case may be) of the snow surface differently as well.
Unlike Vailcat, with only an hour and half to spare and no idea how Vail was skiing and where the winds had been through the storm, I took off up the Bahn and made right for the back bowls. Dropped one straight down Sun Up, then back up to drop Genghis to Blue Sky. As he stated, in the bowls it was 10 inches on absolute boilerplate, and with wind drifts in unusual places over rock hard bumps, I didn't really get a chance to open it up at that point. I will say that the boards handled the occasional clash on concrete just fine, although I wasn't thrilled to be hitting bottom. No question though, it would have been much worse to be on something that didn't float as well - I'm pretty sure the 120s gave the best ride I could have in those conditions.
Things got a lot more telling when I got into Blue Sky. Skiing the smoothly buffed west facing moderate pitches of Montane Glade over and over, I got a much better idea of how these ride. Nearly as effortless in deep snow as a Spatula (although just baaaaaaaarely not quite as effortless), these float ridiculously well in soft snow at speed. You don't need to be hauling ass, but you do need to be moving. Rightly so, Stephan and crew have designed a ski which recognizes that strong skiers in more open terrain will be skiing in the SOMEWHAT FAST to VERY FAST range most of the time, and have optimized the performance of the ski accordingly. In the first two turns, the ski feels quick because of the low swing weight (and yes, these big boys really are stupid light for their size!), but does not yet reach it's trademark planing response. It still floats you pleasantly, and the progressive flex ensures that you bounce along, porpoising in the pow to your hearts delight. This is the appetizer...the rich, smooth, creamy lobster bisque with hints of vanilla and an occasional surprise taste of sweet rasberry. But five turns and a hundred vertical feet down, the ski comes alive for real. As you leap from second gear into fourth gear, the ski accelerates, and the carbon fiber/wood core construction serves up Filet Mignion medium rare with garlic sauteed spinach and mushrooms accompanied by colorful helping of seasoned yam puree. The rockered tip shape allows you to drive the damp yet responsive forebody of the ski VERY hard without fear of submarining or over-active snap back. This is probably THE differentiating feature of the ski. The shape of the ski is perfect for long, arcing, high speed turns, yet the pintail and semi-twin allow you to smear, slide, and stop quite quickly for a big ski.
I didn't get the chance to go big, ski something steep, or open it up for real, but from what I learned this first day, the 120s perform better as you move faster, steeper, and deeper. As I said, having skied Spatulas, they're not quite as effortless - after seven or eight runs in Montane, I moved over to do a run in Lovers Leap (skied the little 5-10 footer entrance cornice huck like it didn't exist), another run back in China, and then down the frontside, and by the time I was back at the car after 12 top to bottom runs, I WAS tired; but I was not THAT tired - and they don't smear quite as well, but that's okay - there are other skis for that. Complaints? Only one - I do already have a 2" x 1/4" section of topsheet that looks like it might be delamming from one edge (and I am unusually light on my gear), but that's not the end of the world.
For a go-fast, love-the-turn-but-can't-resist-the-point, quick-but-big, snappy-yet-damp, all purpose charging soft-snow board that's more manageable on the hardpack than the reverse sidecut shapes, this board pretty much sends it. In the 190 length, it's the perfect resort ski for the bigger, more open, steeper areas. Squaw, Jackson, Baker, Mammoth, Kicking Horse, AK, and so on. I wouldn't want to ski much in the way of bumps with it (although I did this day with a foot of soft on top, and I was still able to zipperline for short stretches as they are quick even at 120mm underfoot), and I wouldn't want to cruise the groomers with them, but for the conditions they were designed, these skis do KILL IT. For east coast tree skiing, for wintertime touring, and for lighter skiers, the 178cm would be an amazing setup as well.
For me, the combination of 190cm Gotamas mounted a little bit forward (they ski short, with a full twin and a soft flex) and the 190cm Flex 2 Lotus 120s mounted per Stephan's recommendation completely covers all of the alpine/resort skiing that I ever want to do. Occasional bumps, the rare park appearance, up to 10" of snow in the last 48 hours, and all other everyday inbounds use = Gotamas.
Anything steeper, deeper, and/or smoother, and I'll be on the 120s. I guess the Big Daddies will have to get stashed in Argentina or something?
Sweet review. :fm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
great review yos
hey yos, great review
I know theyre different types of skis, but it still might be cool to see a back to back comparison with the spat since youve got experience on both. Ie which ski you like better for bottomless, trees, groomers, hucking, etc etc etc.
damn you all now i just want the 120's more. Yossarian glad to hear you made it back to work.
right on - good to meet you, and really sorry we didn't actually get to take laps. I saw you below me a couple times on the chair and hooted at ya, but you were rippin' it down the hill and I'm not sure you noticed. I had to bail pretty quick, else I would have waited up...Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain_man
yup. A quick guess for now, which I'll expand on later:Quote:
Originally Posted by pechelman
they're both great in the same categories, but I'd give the quesswork nod to the:
120s for hucking at speed because you can pressure the forebody so much more without fear of going over
120s for big mountain comp skiing (same reasons)
120s for straightlining and big open terrain (fairly straight shape, the sidecut isn't a lot)
Spats for pow in trees and tighter, super varied pow lines (tapered tips and tails still can't be beat for windshield wiper skiing)
120s for technical billygoating on steep chalky lines (the edge hold makes the difference)
120s for hiking and backcountry (if these had a light binding on them instead of a 916...shit, they'd feel as light as my Heli Daddies and Freerides)
and so on.
Float is about the same, the big difference is the fore/aft stability. The 120s let you drive forward harder.
I MUST CONCUR WITH YOS ON THE SPAT 120 COMPARISON. I HAD A PAIR OF SPATS BUT I SOLD THEM ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO. THE 120 S DEFINETLY SLAY THE SPAT IN THE STABILITY CATEGORY. TO ME THE SPATS HAD SUCH A NARROW BALANCE POINT WHERE WHEN U GOT A LITTLE FORWARD U HAD THAT OVER THE HANDLE BARS IS COMING ANY NANOSECOND FEELING. NONE OF THAT WITH THE LOTUS IMHO. I DIDNT PUT A TON OF DAYS ON MY SPATS BUT THIS IS WHAT STICKS OUT MOST TO ME.
I ALSO AGREE WITH YOS IN THAT THE SKI IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL AT DIFFERENT SPEEDS. TO ME THE MORE IT IS PUSHED THE MORE IT FEELS LIKE YOU ARE GETTIN YOUR MONEYS WORTH. IT BEGS TO BE RIDEN HARDER AND HARDER (KINDA LIKE A HOOKER TRYIN TO GET CRACK MONEY).
I SPENT MOST OF MY DAY HITTIN THE STEPS ON CHAIR 11. MUCH MORE TECHNICAL TIGHT TERRAIN. WHEN THE DAY STARTED I WAS A LITTLE CAUTIOUS FEELIN OUT THE BOARDS AND I SOON REALIZED I COULD DO WHATEVER I WANTED NO MATTER HOW TIGHT,DEEP OR STEEP IT WAS. I USUALLY SKI AT A PRETTY GOOD CLIP BUT I WAS ABLE TO FIND A NEW GEAR WITH THESE BABIES. WEIRD WEID WEIRD. IN THE END THEY FLAT OUT FUCKIN RULE!
PS IM WRITING THIS ON BREAK AT 2 ELK ON MY PHONE SO EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS.
Appreciate the review but damn
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...3&d=1170690991
learn to read dude:Quote:
Originally Posted by Camel Toad
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailcat
i couldn't make it that far through it.
So I thought the reason they were warrantying all of last years skis was because this problem had been fixed? We are talking about an 07 model?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Unfortunately, yes. '07. I haven't looked carefully at it yet, nor notified Stephan. I have a client having a heart attack over a deadline right now, so I don't have time to do anything but work for the next couple days, but I'll report back when I can come up for air. May be no big deal at all and mine eyes deceived me; or it may be pretty annoying for a $900 ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
Great reviews guys definately leaning toward the 120s but has anyone ridden them in the 178 length? I know i know, pussy skis but hey i'm only 5'8" 155, so i think they would suit me better than 190s......
I'm looking for something wider than my Gots for big days next season - i think these could be the answer.....or those new volkl katanas....
yos- feel free to swing them by, i'd be happy to evaluate/fix/etc... is it more a chip from an edge impact, or a small delam?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
i have prolly 10 days on my 07's and they are holding up WAY better than last years. though there are some small chips (which happens to all laminate skis when you wack the edge into the topsheet), the topsheets are not peeling off and falling apart like the 06's.
Max\DeepDays has some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps
Might actually make a cool superlight touring ski.
I dunno though, Id probably still hold out for a 185ish Lotus 110.
Using the data I have at hand, from word of mouth, and on the website, I calculated a max and min weight per square cm.
A 185 110 lotus ski would weight between 3.75 and 3.95lbs :eek:
Basically the same as a 179 Bro. Sounds like a KICKASS touring ski to me.
Then add some dynafits :fm:
So yea, Im sold, where can I get some?
stop being a pussy and just get a w105 188cm ;)
I can get my hands on either a 105 Wailer or the 120 Lotus and am agonizing a bit. Seems like the Wailer would be a bit more useful overall but the 120 would be the pair to have for legend days / conditions.
Damn TGR! I was a one-ski quiver guy until I started hanging around here.
Thanks dood, might bring them by next week. Looks like a small delam, unfortunately. I noticed it when I picked them up from you - the very slightest hint of a "bubble" looking area in the topsheet at the edge - you could see it only if you got the light to reflect off the topsheet just right. But I had hoped they would simply stay that way, and not progress. I think they might be coming up there though, so I'll let you have a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
Also, in looking, I noticed that the length of the tip protectors inside look different between skis. Can't imagine that this makes any difference, and sure as shit didn't feel any difference cause I loved the ride, but it seemed odd for a matched set...?
Anyway, nothing but good things to say about the performance that matters, just little things I noticed because I'm a detail guy.
We can look at them next week. I'm not concerned.
Aight! Got another AM sneak attack in on the DP 120 Lotus 190cm Flex 2.
Gawd is this a bad bad pair of boards! Shithot fun. I don't have a lot to add, but here's a couple thoughts...
This past weekend I was at the Str8line camp at Snowbird and Alta. The first two days were spent on hardpack and windbuff, getting my technique thrashed and then rebuilt properly. Sunday and Monday the payoff came, and a nice wet storm came in and laid down around a foot of thick, creamy pow. I spent all four days on the one pair of skis I brought - 190cm Gotamas.
Today, I hit the tail end of the same storm here in CO, at Breckenridge. 6 inches of fluffy new snow overnight, and despite the fact that I intended to bring out the DP 120s only for the big days, I figured it wouldn't hurt to push them around again in variable snow.
First run, boots unbuckled, top to bottom on the super smooth Peak 8 groomer which had been covered by the new snow. OoooooOOooh! Sublime. The float on these babies is awesome! But were they really significantly better than the Goats would have felt in the same? Honestly? Hard to say. They were certainly as FUN, and maybe a little more surfy feeling. So, it was on to more interesting terrain.
Up the T-bar to Horseshoe Bowl. Light SW winds loaded parts of the bowl nicely, and after getting off the top, I tucked back in to the left under the ridgeline to grab the good stuff. Focusing on all the teachings of the past weekend, I pushed my hands forward into an aggressive body position, widened my stance slightly, and dropped into the soft bumps at the top. Bump, bump, bump, rail, rail, smear, carve, and I'm down to the shoulder above the gut of the bowl.
Affirmation #1: In any kind of moderately soft snow surface, the Lotus 120s are just as easy to ski and make quick turns and short radius cuts as the boards in the 100mm underfoot range. The super light swing weight, high torsional stiffness underfoot, and progressive tip flex allow this huge ski to manage variable terrain very well for the girth.
Now I'm standing on the low shoulder, with 500 vertical of reasonably pitched pow below me. It's far from bottomless - when I drop in, I do scrape - but these float me more than a smaller ski would. When I do hit bottom, the mild sidecut, torsional stiffness, and pintailed and half-twinned tail shape allow me to release the turns easily without getting thrown off by the transition from pow to hardpack and back.
Affirmation #2: I don't think that the 120s handled the pow on crust any better than the Goats, but they certainly didn't handle it any worse, and when I DIDN'T hit bottom, there's no question the ride was softer.
Four turns down the barely noticeable sub-ridge running down into the bowl, and I spot a launching pad another 100 feet ahead. The little 5-10 foot rock that everyone hits in the middle of the bowl has a perfectly packed take off, and only one set of tracks. So much for warm up runs. I slash another couple turns, then hit the throttle. Fuck it, let's take this with some speed! Final turn, line it up, hands forward, let the boards run. I come FLYING off the little hit, far faster than I'm usually prone to taking even small airs (I'm kind of a pussy about hucking sometimes), sail through the air, and rocket out the bottom of the bowl. I barely notice the landing.
(continued)
Affirmation #3: I think this is maybe the biggie. The most noticeable distinguishing factor in my testing so far (sample size = 2). Whereas performance in variable terrain is not noticeably better or worse than the Goats, the Lotus 120s provide a distinctively superior platform for high speed/fast air landings. The stability underfoot and in the forebody of the ski, combined with the tapered and rockered tip shape and progressively softer rising flex pattern really allow you to DRIVE forward without getting bucked into the back seat on the takeoff, nor risk burying a tip or having a ski yanked sidewise on the landing. You can really PUSH forward through the approach, takeoff, air, and landing. My Goats are mounted a little forward, both for more all-around performance (as they are my all-mountain ski :D), and for a little more centered feel in the air (because I've always struggled to get out of the backseat in the air). Even so, the Lotus 120s feel better in this situation. Because of the design, I find I can stay in a much more aggressive body positioning throughout, accelerating and looking ahead through the landing and into the next turn instead of preparing to recover from the drop. Perhaps for a better skier, this wouldn't make a difference. But for me, it's a sweet feeling.
And just to prove myself right, I go back and do it three more times before I go on to find more soft snow.
Day 2, and I still give the 120s two big thumbs up.
^^^I'm so jealous, thanks for a more extended review. Mine finally arrived last night and I couldn't get them mounted in time for all the snow we got for today. They'll be just sitting around waiting for the next dump.
Thanks for the review Yoss - very interesting cause i'm thinking of adding the 120s to my quiver right next to my Goats as well..........seems like they are similar enough buttttt they could be worth it
Rontele has 120's, it's snowing in Colorado, and he's in Chicago (where it is also snowing which must constantly remind him of what he is missing). Ah haa!
Bah! Wish I had the skis for tomorrow! Would be a great test day (except for the whole semi-bum knee thing).Quote:
Originally Posted by pechelman
I sent Rob at DP an email today in hopes I'd get an update on the shipping status. I'll definitely post a review of the Women's Model 120 as soon as I get a chance to spend a couple days on them. Fingers are crossed that that day is soon!
Very VERY stoked. I knew these boards would be sweet in the un-/barely tracked stuff, but what I was unsure of was the high speed performance through crud. This has upped my confidence and made me more excited for the potentially inevitable: that I will ski some crud at high speeds on the Lotus-jr. and will smile a big smile.
Nice writing in the review, btw, Yoss. Poetic language can apparently help in an objective/scientific style review. Stoked to hear I'll have a crutch for dropping airs when my knee is stronger. :p
And I hope we won't have to hear an "i was going faster than my skills allow and am now out for (another) x weeks" statement afterwards... ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Days
My 120s are still sitting here. I was going to drill them tonight but was too tired.
And finally, P.S., regarding durability and construction:
After 20 runs or so, I do have some very small topsheet nicks at the edges, however this is very normal for my skis and skiing. The small (2"long) area of delam topsheet up at the beginning of the shovel on one side of one ski appears to be staying put, and I plan to epoxy it down later today or tomorrow. Seems to be no big deal, just one little bubble, easily fixed.
Most importantly, I'm happy to report that the bases and edges seem to be quite bomber. I raked to a stop over a some rocks later in the day, and then sidestepped my way down through the buried scree-field, and I have only very minor scratches in the base, and no damage at all to the edges.
On a cosmetic note, the sidewalls are beautiful.
they are also sitting in my garage, taunting me into mounting them alpine and skiing them for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
yoss, seriously nice reviews and thoughts there about the skis.
:yourock: